Rein length?

[ChrisB]

Could someone explain (with diagrams/pics if possible) exactly how long one should hold their reins?

I was on a hack today and the accompanying RI insisted that my reins were too long. However, I felt that the reins were actually a lot tighter/shorter than usual... The horse was just in a particularly lively mood and spooked at anything and everything.

I'm sure that the RI is absolutely right and far be it from me to question them - Which means that there must be a better explanation e.g. reins needing to be shorter if the horse is in a 'funny' mood.

TIA

Chris

[Horsesaddle]

http://images.google.co.uk/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=horse++rider

the picture of peroson white horse might help :)

[ChrisB]

http://images.google.co.uk/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=horse++rider

the picture of peroson white hore might help :)

Thank you. But how do I know which of the pics show correct rein length?

EDIT: The person on the white horse? My reins were shorter than that! *confused*

[Crazyhorse]

Hi it's a difficult question to answer as every horse is different. If a horse you are riding is wound up on a hack to give them their head may chill them out a bit. To shorten reins even more could have the effect of winding them up even more! Sorry, not a huge amount of help to you! You should be able to feel a contact on the horse's mouth without pulling.

[Horsesaddle]

well from what i have persume is a good idea is>>

get 2 empty tea cups and hold one in each hand and place both thumbs on the handels

then places cups down onto a nearish table and imaging you are not holding cups now are the thumbs in right place or did the 2 thumbs move

[chev]

It's difficult to answer that one. The idea is that you maintain the same 'feel' on the rein throughout, but the actual length between hand and mouth will vary according to what the horse is doing. In extended trot, for example, the outline is longer so the rein will be longer, even though you have teh same contact and the same pressure on the bit. When the horse collects, his frame shortens... so the reins shorten accordingly. Same thing happens when you go from one pace to another; the horse tends to shorten his outline when going up to trot from walk, for example, so usually, the length of rein you have in walk would mean your reins are a tad long for trot.

If teh horse you rode was a bit lively and on his toes, chances are he was in a more collected outline naturally. His head might have been drawn in more, so the length of rein would shorten in response.

Whether you need shorter reins in response to a lively horse really depends on the horse. To some, shortening the rein will be a signal that they should be ready to go and they'll get livelier still! To others, having a slightly stronger contact means they listen more, and will put you in a stronger position.

So to sort-of-answer the question... ther eis no real 'correct length' particularly. You need to find a contact that gives you contact and control, without pulling, and maintain it throughout a ride - which will inevitably mean changing the actual physical length of rein.

[xxxkristinaxxx]

I think this picture has good rein contact:

[ChrisB]

It's difficult to answer that one. The idea is that you maintain the same 'feel' on the rein throughout, but the actual length between hand and mouth will vary according to what the horse is doing. In extended trot, for example, the outline is longer so the rein will be longer, even though you have teh same contact and the same pressure on the bit. When the horse collects, his frame shortens... so the reins shorten accordingly. Same thing happens when you go from one pace to another; the horse tends to shorten his outline when going up to trot from walk, for example, so usually, the length of rein you have in walk would mean your reins are a tad long for trot.

If teh horse you rode was a bit lively and on his toes, chances are he was in a more collected outline naturally. His head might have been drawn in more, so the length of rein would shorten in response.

Whether you need shorter reins in response to a lively horse really depends on the horse. To some, shortening the rein will be a signal that they should be ready to go and they'll get livelier still! To others, having a slightly stronger contact means they listen more, and will put you in a stronger position.

So to sort-of-answer the question... ther eis no real 'correct length' particularly. You need to find a contact that gives you contact and control, without pulling, and maintain it throughout a ride - which will inevitably mean changing the actual physical length of rein.

That makes perfect sense, thank you.

Perhaps it just looked like I had less contact than I actually did. By the time the RI perceived my reins to be the correct lenght, I felt that I was pulling quite hard, almost to the point where I felt like I was confusing the horse by asking her to trot and stop at the same time.

I think I'm going to need to ask for an explanation on my next lesson because I am very confused at the moment :confused:

[Horsesaddle]

when is your next lesson?

[cvb]

ChrisB

your reins are a method of communication with the horse...

think about the "tin can telephone" that you make when you are kids. If the line is not taut, it doesn't work.

Reins are the same. If there is slack, then you have to take the slack up before you can "talk" down the line.

(at least if we are talking non-western style ;) )

Thats what we mean when we talk about contact. What we often then do is talk about a "weight" of contact - in ounces - which I personally find hard to gauge. I prefer the way Mark Rashid sets up a scale of measurement...

0 to 10 where 0 is nothing at all and 10 is way more than you would ever want to use...

Across the clinics I have watched, most riders seem to be comfortable when, on that scale, they have a contact of around 3 or 4....

[chev]

Perhaps it just looked like I had less contact than I actually did. By the time the RI perceived my reins to be the correct lenght, I felt that I was pulling quite hard, almost to the point where I felt like I was confusing the horse by asking her to trot and stop at the same time.

Was she carryng her head quite high? Some horses, when they get excited, will raise the head. What that basically means is that you no longer have a decent contact with them; the bit isn't doing it's job and your communication via the bit isn't so great any more.

Sometimes taking a slightly stronger contact, but asking the horse to move on at the same time, will have the effect of them dropping back down into the bridle; their backs will lift, their hocks will come under them, and the nose will drop down onto the bit. That not only gives you more control again, it also means they're more comfortable, and listening to you again.

It may be that your RI was in effect getting you to ask the mare to work properly and listen. :)

[ChrisB]

when is your next lesson?

Next Saturday. Why? :)

Was she carryng her head quite high? Some horses, when they get excited, will raise the head. What that basically means is that you no longer have a decent contact with them; the bit isn't doing it's job and your communication via the bit isn't so great any more.

Sometimes taking a slightly stronger contact, but asking the horse to move on at the same time, will have the effect of them dropping back down into the bridle; their backs will lift, their hocks will come under them, and the nose will drop down onto the bit. That not only gives you more control again, it also means they're more comfortable, and listening to you again.

It may be that your RI was in effect getting you to ask the mare to work properly and listen. :)

Bear with me here because I tried to explain this to someone earlier and we both ended up very confused.

Throughout the whole hack, and when I last rode this horse come to think of it, she constantly pulls her head down and back up. The best way that I can describe the action is to imagine that she was attempting to scratch her neck on the reins (of course, she wasn't). It wasn't the same as when a horse pushes its head forwards when the reins are too tight. The other person I was riding with explained that horses do it when they are attempting to take control/be the boss.

No matter how I held the reins, she continued to do the same thing ever 5 minutes or so, even when trotting. The only time that I felt that we were both happy was when we were cantering.

Did that make any sense at all?

[DeirdreBarlow]

Bear with me here because I tried to explain this to someone earlier and we both ended up very confused.

Throughout the whole hack, and when I last rode this horse come to think of it, she constantly pulls her head down and back up. The best way that I can describe the action is to imagine that she was attempting to scratch her neck on the reins (of course, she wasn't). It wasn't the same as when a horse pushes its head forwards when the reins are too tight. The other person I was riding with explained that horses do it when they are attempting to take control/be the boss.

No matter how I held the reins, she continued to do the same thing ever 5 minutes or so, even when trotting. The only time that I felt that we were both happy was when we were cantering.

Did that make any sense at all?

Well Chris I think you've been provided with some brilliant explanations :) .
So before I go any further I'll just state that I'd only reiterate them.

Secondly, with regards to this mare. . .

When a horse "messes" about with your rein contact, it can mean one of several things. . .

- Teeth trouble - horses regularly see a dentist to have sharp edges filed down and to check their general dental situation.
I'm sure it isn't teeth in this mare's case (given she's a RS horse), but I feel you should be aware that pain - especially in the mouth is a common reason for this kind of behaviour ;) .
Similarly, a poorly fitting bit and/or bridle falls into this "pain induced behaviour" category.

- Rider error - Fiddling too much with the reins, having unsteady hands, holding too tightly, being careless, pulling the horse off balance and various other common mistakes can result in numerous behaviours. The one you've described is included in that.

- Habit - some horses (especially RS types) develop habits - either as a way of coping with poor riding (ie, beginners yanking at their mouths), or as a means of getting their own way (ie, spotting an opportunity).
That doesn't mean you can't ride through the habit :) . But I suggest you speak to your instructor about how to do that (given that I can't see the horse or your reaction to her).

- Preference - just like people, horses like to be handled in differing ways. My mare (though she's extremly forward going) HATES anything but loose contact. I ride her with fairly loose reins and control her with supple half halts. The temptation to shorten your reins on her is immense! But that just winds her up.
There's lots of reasons horses end up like this, but it's important to understand that loose contact may be what some are used to, or what past experience has taught them, or simply what they prefer.

- Playing up - this partially belongs in the above category ;) . It could well be she senses your inexperience and is taking full advantage of it.
Assuming this is the case, it sounds as though she's either trying to loosen your contact (so she can move in her own way, at her own pace), or trying to pull you off balance (not likely - but possible).
There are lots of ways to deal with this; including asking her to soften to the bit, and asking her to engage her hindquarters more - but I'm reluctant to suggest anything specific without knowing the mare (or your riding level).
What I will suggest is you resist that urge to yank her head back up! It's horrific to see beginners/novices doing it, but many assume it's the correct thing to do.

So basically I've been no help at all :p , and just advise you have a chat with your RI about it.
But I hope you've found something useful in there ;) .

[Izod1360]

My old RI told me that if you want the correct length for holding the reins was that it was suppose to feel like you were holding 10 pounds of wieght in your reins. Now I don't know if that is right. But I think I might have a picture of how I hold the reins. I ride a horse right now that does the same thing that you described.

Don't mind me in this picture. This is how I usaully hold the reins.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/Izod1360/summer.jpg

[ChrisB]

Thanks all.

As always, the advice is much appreciated.

[Wally]

Ten pounds of weight, My goodness that's far too coarse, a horse's mouth is the most sensetive thing, If you rode any of mine with that degree of contact, they'd hate it!

I would say between one and 6 ounces, unless the horse is pulling.
Izod, If I was your riding instructor, which I'm not, I'd ask you to bend your elbows, which will make you taller and let the reins out so you are not climbing up them towards the horse's head. You can maintain a better, taller more relaxed position if you did that.

I always tell folk, try not to adopt an arm position on a horse you wouldn't use while walking about off a horse.

If you bend the elbows, it will soften the whole contact as your arms will become more springy and better able to feel for the contact.

When I am riding tölt I carry my hands a bit higher, now the question, are my reins too long?

It is the most difficult question to answer. I think often what folk mean is take up a better contact, not shorten the reins, maybe think about shortening your arms in the other direction, it sits you up taller, straight arms are unforgiving arms.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f177/sprimble/randalin015.jpg

[*toHorse&Away*]

Interesting thread you stated ChrisB - I have similar issues and found many of the repsonses very enlightening.
I am only just starting to get the hang again now after over a year and a half and now recognise I ride way too loose (no real contact at all - scared of hurting horse)
Chev's quote: To some, shortening the rein will be a signal that they should be ready to go and they'll get livelier still!
Agreed - is so about the horse - I was riding a new horse, felt a bit lively, thought shortening might help - nah, went up on his toes and off into the sunset!!!:o

[kt_luvs_smartie]

its NOT about rein length its about contact. Different horses act differntly to different rein lengths, some feel strangled in a short rein and will not accept the contact and others will use longer reins as an excuse to slack of work. You need ot experiment with the horse your on to see how it reacts to different lengths, but you must always have a feel of the horses mouth at the end of the reins.

[Izod1360]

Wally, I do agree with you about the ten pounds also. I actually don't ride with that said RI anymore. LOL and that picture just happened to catch me actually moving my arms up. I usually always ride with my elbows bent.

[ChrisB]

Ten pounds of weight, My goodness that's far too coarse, a horse's mouth is the most sensetive thing, If you rode any of mine with that degree of contact, they'd hate it!

I would say between one and 6 ounces, unless the horse is pulling.
Izod, If I was your riding instructor, which I'm not, I'd ask you to bend your elbows, which will make you taller and let the reins out so you are not climbing up them towards the horse's head. You can maintain a better, taller more relaxed position if you did that.

I always tell folk, try not to adopt an arm position on a horse you wouldn't use while walking about off a horse.

If you bend the elbows, it will soften the whole contact as your arms will become more springy and better able to feel for the contact.

When I am riding tölt I carry my hands a bit higher, now the question, are my reins too long?

It is the most difficult question to answer. I think often what folk mean is take up a better contact, not shorten the reins, maybe think about shortening your arms in the other direction, it sits you up taller, straight arms are unforgiving arms.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f177/sprimble/randalin015.jpg

My RI would kill me if I rode with my hands that high :eek:

Not attempting to question you at all, Wally; it just emphasises the differences in what is considered to be 'correct' between different riders and RIs.

I have a feeling that my next lesson will be spent discussing rein length :)

[Joyscarer]

What an excellent thread.

I have an issue with my arms at the moment because I don't keep my elbows closer to my body. I also like to ride with a fairly light contact (so I can just about feel her mouth and movements through it) which Joy seemed to like. But since buying her just before christmas I have been trying to keep a slightly firmer contact with her and this has resulted i her dropping her head and holding an outline for a few seconds a go once she has warmed up. She used to be on working livery at a riding school for her previous owner and I would always try to get down and watch her lessons when I could and even the University team never seemed to be able to to get her to do this.

I think that it is more a case of being consistent in your contact although a firmer contact when out hacking but be beneficial for some horses.