Flying change help!

[iloveshearer]

Shearer's schooling is going really well at the moment, and i've been trying to do teach him new things to stop him getting bored- last time we tried the walk to canter transition which he can now do spot on thanks to your help on here :D

Soooo i want to have a go at the flying change now because i think it would help with our jumping aswell as being something new for him. Most of you know Shearer's a trotter and learnt how to canter just over a year ago now so he isn't as good as most ponies at cantering but he's doing well.

So i basically would just like some tips and how i should go about asking him please!:)

Thanks everyone!

[Sammii]

I could be totally wrong here, but when i am attempting a flying change, do a figure of eight in canter and at X I move to my inside (soon to be outside) leg behind the girth and my outside (soon to be inside) leg on the girth, this swaps the contact you're giving him to the opposite way, and in canter i always have my outside hand lifted up higher than my inside, so i'd change that around aswell.....but this website is good - allbeit about hard to follow (for me anyway - http://www.classicaldressage.co.uk/Flying_Change/flying_change.html

[iloveshearer]

Thanks for that! :D When i've tried to do figure of 8's with him and tried to change leg, he doesn't know how to or what's being asked of him and he just canters on the wrong leg because he isn't quite sure how he should change! Thanks for the link, it was helpful!

[coss]

firstly, have you got a decent counter canter. you shouldn't do flying changes until you can do a decent counter canter. if you try teaching flying changes too early then you will have problems trying counter canter and you horse may use them as an evasion and when slightly off balance they might just change lead. Flying changes don't come into dressage until medium!

Sammii - does your friend's pony already know how to do flying changes because i haven't heard of it being taught like that... i would be trying to do figure of eights without changing bend (therefore with counter canter) and then teach flying changes using other methods before that. or do simple changes.

iloveshearer - you say your walk to canter is spot on :) how about your canter to walk and simple changes? can you do a very crisp canter - walk 3steps - canter on the other rein? This is you foundation.
Have you done halt to canter where you can halt and then choose which ever leading leg and although not completely necessary, rein back to your chosen canter?

Just asking as i'm unsure :)
If you have got all of the above sorted then you're doing really well if you've only properly cantered for a year! :)
Once all of the above is crisp and neat then this is how i would teach flying changes, i recently started doing flying changes on my RIs horse who was new to them and this is her method...
establish counter canter going down the long side, preferably walk to canter as this engages the hindquarters more. As you approach the corner, half halt (it doesn't matter if the first few times you get a trot step or walk step) and ask for the other usual correct canter lead. the corner will influence the horse and you have to reall move your upper body to move the horse's shoulders and obviously ask with the correct leg aids. if your horse goes disunited, reask for the canter as this should correct the back end. if your horse changes behind but not infront you'll need to trot and start again. to begin with the first few steps after the change will feel unbalanced as its a new thing. as you and your horse become more tuned in the half halt will only be a half halt and you won't get such a stop - start.

I really advise that you make sure you can do everything else up to elementary level dressage (even if its for jumping) before attempting this as it is hard work. My RI has a horse that did BSJA showjumping and the rider tried to teach flying changes too soon as he thought "at his level he should be able to do them" and he will often go disunited when you change the rein as his breaks don't work well (he gets hyper) and he tries to be clever and change legs but only does it in front, the rider doesn't ask for the change and therefore can't correct the back end.

[iloveshearer]

His counter canter is pretty good yes, but i just see it as being on the wrong leg so don't do it very often but have done it with him.

His canter to walk isn't as good as his walk to canter but it's ok, do you think i should work more on this then? I've done some halt to canters with him which were good but this was after he had one the walk to canter because it made his canter transition a lot better.

His canter transition has improved overall a lot since i started doing walk to cante and canter to walk with him, because it was good before considering but could of been better. Also it's him that's not been cantering long, i've cantered for ages :p:)

Do you think i should work on something else before this then? What else would you suggest as something just to stop him getting bored and to have something to work on?

[Herbie's mummy]

but i just see it as being on the wrong leg so don't do it very often but have done it with him.


me to, i don't teach my horses to do it...i see it as totally pointless

[Skyhuntress]

His counter canter is pretty good yes, but i just see it as being on the wrong leg so don't do it very often but have done it with him.


That's where you'll run into problems. A good counter canter is essential to having a fluid flying lead change, and don't confuse counter cantering with cross cantering. counter canter is very hard for many horses, because they are literally shifting the position and direction of their body in order to maintain a lead going the opposite direction of what they were orginally asked. Cross cantering occurs for most people, and its a disunited canter, where the back end usually switches leads and the front maintains its original lead. In order to get a good flying lead change, the horse NEEDS to understand counter canter, because essentially, what you'll be teaching him is that he needs to switch from lead to lead, and he can't do that unless he has a clear understanding of what it's like to travel on the opposite lead.

Once you get that, I personally like going across the diagonal to start with (much as I like to start asking for counter canter that way) It's just a matter of personal preference, but I find that going through the diagonal really helps ME realize that I need to shift myself and ask for a change of lead, and the corner really seems to help the horse with the bend.

Good luck!

[Daffy Dilly]

On my section C, I got flying changes by cantering on say the left lead, then changing direction and asking for right lead canter. It was purely a mistake first time it happened, but he was very good on his feet and I wasn't into schooling at the time, so never worked through the stages on anything. Just bombed around.

[Herbie's mummy]

mine just does it coming over jumps to change legs.
I have never taught him, as he was never ready.
going to pick it up with him though,
i just canter figure of eights trooting to change the rein and gradually getting the trot shorter and swiftly pick the canter back up...mine have picked it up easily this way:) but there alot more to it obv.

[iloveshearer]

Thanks StormArion and Daffy Dilly :)

Herbie's Mummy- that's what i've been doing with Shearer and just making it one or two strides of trot in the centre and then canter on the other leg.

I'm going to work on his counter canter for a bit longer now, thanks!

[coss]

counter canter (as someone else mentioned) is NOT just cantering on the wrong lead, if you are cantering clockwise round the school in counter canter you are still on the left rein! the bend of the horse is different.
other things you can do...]
shoulder in/out in a straight line and on a circle (hard)
haunches in/out in a straight line and on a circle (hard)
haunches in progresses to half pass ;):)
leg yield in walk (or shoulder in) down the longside and then canter out of it.

i'll think of more later ;)

[Sexy Sietske]

If he does walk to canter and canter to walk well then do a figure of 8 instead of try the flying change at X go from conter to walk, do 4 strides then back to canter, then do it with 3 strides, then 2 strides, the 1 stride and the 0 :D He should learn that going down to walk is a waste of time and engery and may well just offer it to you when changing with 1 stride in the middle.

[alwaysfallingof]

In counter canter, the horse is in outside bend - so if you were on the left rein, you would have right bend and therefore right canter in counter canter. Therefore, in order to ride a good counter canter the horses self carriage has to be quite established, because if you're sitting in right bend, your steering is pretty much non-existent and so to circle left (still in right bend) then the horse needs to be able to carry and balance himself :)

[Cabbitt]

Avoid "cowboy" lead changed- that is, cantering one direction and then quickly changing direction (think of a sloppy serpentine) so that the horse switches lead. You want to reinforce the signals used to do a flying change, not off balance the horse, and doing so will make it difficult to get changes on the straight in the future.

That being said, I like to teach flying changes over poles or calvaletti. The horse will have to pick up its legs to avoid the calvaletti, and therefore it will be easier to ask it to change lead than it would in a normal canter stride. Set up an X shape with poles or calvaletti in the center of the arena (alternately, you could put them one or two strides into the corner on a diagonal line to put the horse on the bend of the new lead if it doesn't work in the center), and give the change cues right as your horse goes over the obstacle. You have to be very clear with your aids, however, because your goal is to eventually do the changes without the aid or poles or calvaletti, and you want the horse to associate the change with your cues and not the obstacles. I really find this to be the easiest and clearest way to teach a horse the flying change, and it has the added benefit of not requiring the horse to lose its balance or coordination during the change.

[Lgd]

That being said, I like to teach flying changes over poles or calvaletti.

This is fine if you want the changes for showjumping but an absolute no-no for dressage changes as it teaches them to be late behind and encourages them to go croup high in the change.

From a dressage POV they need to be well-established with the counter canter, have a decent collected canter and have clean canter-walk-canter simple changes before you even contemplate teaching the flying changes. That usually means competing well at the top end of novice (i.e. winning or getting 65%+ scores) and into elementary and working well at Medium level at home. If the horse does not have the balance and collection to do a decent canter half-pass then they are not really ready to start the flying changes.

[joey_olop]

Im attempting flying changes at the moment-Mine is doing exactly like yours, he dosnt quite understand what is being asked of him so he canters round on the wrong leg-bless him!!

My instructor has introduced a pole to it-place a pole on a straight and when you reach the pole lean to the side you want him to change too-then swop your inside & outside leg & contact if you get me??!!!

Sounds a bit confusing but if you want a detailed explanation I can PM you if you like??

Good Luck :)

[teabiscuit]

thanks coss, for a very enlightening answer :)

now i know what's next on my to do list:D

[coss]

a lovely exercise to improve the canter would be walk down the 3/4 line (imagine being on the right rein for the explanation) and when you get to the C end, do a 180degree turn ABOUT the forehand to the left (engages inside hind leg) walk until you're inline with E and ask for canter left and circle left, your circle should be 15m if you have ridding the 3/4 line correctly. when you return to E go to walk and continue up the 3/4 line, when you are inline-ish with K, turn about the forehand to the right, ride to E, canter 15m circle. It improves canters and if you've got a good canter it gives the horse something to concentrate on.
Teardrop exercises are brilliant for counter canter once its established. if the counter canter isn't established it will be very difficult and could do more damage.
I won't post any other schooling ideas here as i'll be repeating myself from ages ago and it might go off topic.

[iloveshearer]

Thanks everyone, i had a go at counter cantering with him today, and the whole time he just felt like he wanted to come back to trot and then canter on the other leg. I think he probably thought i was mad actually :rolleyes::p He got it in the end though, he's a pretty quick learner, it wasn't perfect but good considering he's always been taught to canter on the other leg! I'm going to keep practising the counter cantering for a while before i attempt the flying change, he's doing really well - i don't want to spoil anything! Thanks for all your help everyone :D

Coss- Just written that down to take with me when i ride tomorow! :D If you have any more good exercises i could do with him and you wouldn't mind sharing then i'd be very grateful :D