Trip of a lifetime - Any advice, Tips etc?

[greymane]

Well its done and paid for.

Somewhat foolishly my friend who has her 40th birthday this year (and I my fiftieth) decided we'd do something to mark the occasions.

We both had a dream of riding a horse across a wide open landscape. Drawn to Wyoming and a ranch which mentioned that sort of experience, we are booked to go this July.

It's thirty years since I've been on a horse. My friend has only ever ridden English but has had her own horse previously.

I'm having Western lessons but sometimes its seems to be 'wenglish' if you get what I mean. Unless I ride her fully trained arab horse. I mostly ride a six year old appy who isn't fully trained to neck rein yet.

I'm getting confused! If my appy mare hasn't been ridden all week I can find myself taken for a ride with the loose rein no contact style of western riding.

No brakes one lesson saw me completely lose my nerve and RI shouting at me to 'get some contact'. I found out after that said mare had been rested in the stable all week because she had a sore foot.

I'm really worried that the trip of a lifetime is going to turn out to be a nightmare and I shall be unceremoniously dumped at every possible occasion.

Any tips for survival would be greatly appreciated.

[poohsmate]

don't have any tips or advice, but bl---dy envious:D have a great time:D :D

[Shadowlark]

Riding is Riding :) I would probably be looking to change instructors even if it means going english just to get back into the feel. You will likely find yourself ahead of the game anyway.

Most dude ranch horses could babysit a 3 year old even out on a cattle drive. They are usually chosen for thier sound minds and kind hearts. These horses are used to "city slickers" with no clue "cowboying" around on them.

If you understand the basic concept of neck reining you will be fine. Lets not forget that we start our horses with direct reining, so if you forget and direct rein you will get what you want :)

I am sure you will have an amazing time!

[Steph351]

Just have a wonderful time and enjoy yourself :D

[bexj]

Echo Poohsmate. Absolutley bright green with envy:D

[Jessey]

Where are you going? I have been to the TX ranch ( www.txranch.com ) several times which is ont he Wyoming/Montana Borders.

It really depends what type f place you are going, at the TX they do expect you to muck in and the riding days are long.

My essentials are these - lots of layers of clothes inc waterproofs, even in summer (though far less likely) in the mountains, at night etc it can get cold/damp, but also take a good hat (or buy one in town on your way out) that covers your ears/neck/face as the sun is incredibly strong.

The only other things I won't go go with out are Baby wipes - great for freshening up, or if you are at a very basic place a good wash :D and also chap stick, as the heat/wind can really make your lips sore.

Also taking a really good quality water bottle with you is a good idea, I have the Sigg ones from Milletts, they also do a thermal cover for them, making them easy to attach onto a saddle and keeps your water cold - if its 100 + degrees and you are riding all day cold water is great :D

I could give you loads of tips but it really depends on what type of place you are going to and what facilities they have for you, where we go to the TX is is very basic, you sleep in tents and solar showers are the only option - or a dip in the creek :D

The TX have a 'what should I bring' list on the FAQ page - might be helpful :D

Feel free to PM if you want :D

ETA: the first year I took my OH with me, he had sat on a horse 4 times - for an hour each time, the month before we went - they took care of him, I think most ranches have good horses who know the ropes and tend to happily put up with a few wengish messages occasionally :D

[greymane]

Thanks for all your replies.

Shadowlark.
Yes you are right about if I started again with English lessons and I probably will after July when I get back. I just didn't want to confuse the position (and my addled brain).

But the place I am going to is appears very strict 'horses will not go on contact' etc. I thought it best to try and get some practise in before I go. They also insist that you 'post to the trot' and canter in 'two point (?) position' in order to save the horses' back.

Jessey.
You've given a lot of good tips there. The ranch you have been too sounds great. Did you enjoy it? Where I am going (not sure how to post the link, or if I'm allowed to do it like this?) is in Wyoming , between Jackson and Dubois. Here?

http://www.bitterrootranch.com/

[Skib]

Greymane
I hope you have a brilliant time.
We've not stayed on a Dude ranch - but I have ridden from several. We went to the USA the last two years, both in our late sixties, and I ride en route wherever I can.

jessey gave me good advice too, but we are too old for the all day serious ranching at the place she goes.

I think it is a good idea to have a Western lesson before you go - at least I did. I wanted to see if a western saddle hurt my elderly back? And if I could trot in one - I mean jog. The lesson was a write off as we never trotted! And the teacher wasnt my style. Very rigid and mannered riding. But it was educational, if you see what I mean, to look at the tack and find a different way of holding the reins etc. I am not sure what you mean by Wenglish? May be I had what you are looking for, because it was so very different, whereas the sort of Western riding I have doen in the States, isnt?

I also booked some 2 hour hacks to see if I could manage longer in the saddle. I got pretty tired and still do after riding 2 hrs in the UK. But in a Western sadle two hours is easy. I plan to go three hours next summer. But dont think I could do a whole day.

Rising to the trot and riding forward seat (two point) is easier for us English than it is for American tourists. So you could have some lessons to revise those? Personally, I dont think having English lessons will confuse you. All the skills are transferable. Sitting dressage trot makes sitting jog easy.

I bought some very inexpensive riding jeans from Robinson's recommended by cvb on this list.
I have some Ariat terrain boots - dual purpose for walking and riding.
I take thicker socks to go inside them.
I take (and wear) my UK riding helmet and body protector.
You do need a waterproof, even in summer. Both to ride in and walk, I take my ordinary UK riding jacket. With something t cover your hair, as there can be tremendous downpours. I took my cotton bobble gloves too.
We took fleeces but only wore them once at 12.000 feet walking across a snow field. But they are useful on the plane or if it hails.

If you are a woman, you can really do with some sort of puse belt or bum bag or something that will clip on your saddle to take your passport credit card etc, while you ride on a hot day. The pics of me riding with Laura Jeanne show me looking very untidy, because I didnt have one and my travellers cheques are strapped round my middle with white elastic.

Like Jessie, we take wipes, sun block, lip salve and insect repellent. I dont have a posh water bottle. We buy big containers and decant them into small bottles we carry everywhere. We drink a lot. OH reminds me it was 95 degrees in Lovell Wyoming on 20th June after we got back from walking in Big Horn Canyon.

Things better bought in the USA, If you have time to shop. There is a chain called Corral West,
Jeans I buy Wrangler - much cheaper than in the UK and a lot of choice of sizes.
To keep the sun off you can buy a western style hat - either or straw or leather. But lots of Americans wear baseball caps.
My favourite heavy duty, long sleeved cotton shirt came from a ranch where I rode - they are sold by the ranches themselves sometimes.

If you find a good Western teacher in SE England please let me know. Where do you ride?

[greymane]

Hello Skib

Thanks for some more useful tips! There is a weight limit on the luggae allowance so I'll have to be careful as to what I take.

By Wenglish I mean that sometimes my instuctor has the western saddle on but an english bridle! Thats when I get confused. The mare I ride is a six year old appaloosa and has been taught to neck rein and to do the western paces BUT she is ridden a lot in english tack. She is up for sale and they want to sell her as soon as possible.

What concerns me is that I'm learning a hybrid style. Id did worry me last week when she came back from a hack in english tack and was wearing a martingale and what looked to be quite a strong bit.

For the western class I was in they changed her tack and she was in a snaffle with western reins. It was extremely windy and near horizontal rain in the school and I had no control riding on a loose contact!! So I'm not too sure about this place I ride at. I shan't mention exactly where it is but its near Dover in Kent. More of a livery yard really.

The place I am going to in wyoming insists on hard hats which I think is good. They can apparently match each person to the horse very well. I'm hoping for a Mr plod at this rate! The friend I am going with has had her own horse before and is much more experienced so I am wondering if we will be split up for rides.

[KarinUS]

Don't worry one bit and just enjoy it! The dude ranches make a living of carting people around that wouldn't know the backend from the frontend of a horse. :)
I want to go with you!!!

[Skib]

Greymane,
Karin is right. You will have a lovely holiday anyway.
Ranches are used to US tourists who have never ridden before - ranging from small boys to oaps.
If one has ridden at all (i.e. trotted,) that is a bonus.

I agree that one can't ride true Western in a UK snaffle. Sounds like you need a different teacher?
I was so envious of Raingodz and of you that yesterday I made a fresh attempt to find a Western instructor near hear. I did as advised on that thread and went to the website

http://www.wes-uk.com/

And clicked on Instructors. They list them by county: two in Kent. None in Surrey, though.

It is a pity you are not nearer to London. My own RI gave some lessons to a lady of your age who like you had not ridden for years, and she was quickly back in the hang of it. Her aim was to go hunting before the ban came in, and she managed that!
I can understand that you'd like to closeup the gap in riding skills between you and your friend?
Resuming (or starting) later in life one really needs an experienced and kind teacher who will put one on the lunge and build up one's confidence in a few skilled lessons, make allowances for one's aging body and not make carping criticisms all the time. A few lessons with the right teacher, regardless of whether it is English or Western, is worth infintely more than attending routine RS classes week after week.

Even in England, at our age the important thing is to enjoy it. I love to hack. Whether I am here or in the States. The combination of landscape and a horse is irresistable. Even my OH who doesnt ride has a vague dream of a week on a ranch one day.

[greymane]

Thanks for the WES link Skib. I think both of those are a little too far away for me. One of them I have heard of but you need to have your own horse too.

Hopefully there will be more instructors around in the future.

Don't get me wrong the RI I have seems to be very competent. I just think its because I joined an existing class and she forgets sometimes as I seem to be doing ok. I just get a bit addled when we swap between the styles!

KarinUS the place I am going to seems to have more emphasis on riding ability than some of the ranches I looked at. They do lessons, they have a cross country course for English riding and they only take 20-30 people at a time split into different ability groups. The horses are all Arabs or Quarter horses and I think you ride different ones every day.

Still want to come?! I think it will be fabulous.

[cvb]

I agree that one can't ride true Western in a UK snaffle. Sounds like you need a different teacher? Now Skib you *know* I'm going to have to comment on that one ! You don't start western horses in curbs, two handed - you start them in a bitless (bosal) or a snaffle with 2 hands. And the western snaffles are really not that different.

Hopefully there will be more instructors around in the future.

well there *would* be if the UKCC work had not been done only with BEF members, and the only representative of western on BEF is the one of the Reining Associations - so it seems that only reining instructors have been represented !!! Certainly WES instructors have not been involved :(

[Skib]

yes, I will come back cvb.
I know about training Western horses, indeed brought back that booklet from the King ranch.
But what we have here is a student who wants to learn "Western" as opposed to English riding. One can ride Western two handed, and with a Western bit. However for a UK person what they want to learn is specific: one hand riding, including neck reining - I know one can use rein on neck in English and dressage too, but that is not the point.

It isnt necessary to have a Western bit to ride with just one hand holding all the reins - think of polo. But I do think that using a Western bit (don't know its proper name) with the reins attached by leather or rope to metal side bits that hang down, is fit for purpose and conveys a subtle directional signal to the horse.

Just a little shift of your hand, gives a touch to one side of the mouth or the other.
Any one who has regularly led a horse in a snaffle bit and bridle will know that occasionally it can shift sideways. Unlike a snaffle the Western bit does not shift from side to side with side to side movement of the reins.
Equally, the tiny touch we English riders give with our fourth finger, to slow or halt or half halt the horse convey something via a snaffle. Whereas riding in a Western bit, you may need to draw your entire hand back - as one can see on the halts on the Mark Rashid Finding the Try video.

To ride sensitively and well with any particular set of tack does require that one should learn the peculiarities and uses of that tack.

The same goes for Western jog and lope - as is seen from the ads for this Guest ranch, Western riders riding long distances do rise to trot and also use forward seat in canter, and the horses may be trained that way, to save their backs. But when I went to Texas, the thing that I was taught, because new to me, was to ride Western jog and how to ask that particular horse for a jog, rather than a full trot. And the reason I want to go back (or find a good Western teacher) is that I postponed learning the lope, and left it for another day.
Unfortunately still to come.

[KarinUS]

Eek. I just wanted to mention to be very careful with a horse in a curb bit (Western bit) as the shanks exert much more leverage (also depending on length of the shanks) so the observation of Western riders pulling back more may lead some to think that this is necessary or desirable when really it is not.
In fact I find our own Western trained horse to be so responsive to leg and seat that the reins almost become a secondary aid.
Anyway my point really was to say that the curb bit action can be quite strong and you want to apply it very carefully.
Hence I am excited for greymane that she found a place that will make teaching/lessons a priority.
Take lots of pictures and be prepared to write a little report when you come back. :D

[Skib]

Karin, yes, I do realise that one can halt without using the reins at all. And that the western bit exerts more leverage (pressure).
But this is the original question.
Greymane laments that she is not learning to ride in Western tack?
And I am agreeing with her, saying what you say, that to learn to ride using Western (or any tack) one needs to learn to use that tack.

[laura jeanne]

Greymane,

The ranch looks great. One thing- you should wear some chaps, especially if you are wearing jeans.

We still have not planned a riding vacation for this year. I'm aiming to go to Wyoming sometime but I'm not sure when! I like the fact that this place has cabins to stay in because some of the working ranches that I have looked at have you staying in a tent out on a cattle drive and where would I plug in my hairdryer???? heh heh

[cvb]

But what we have here is a student who wants to learn "Western" as opposed to English riding. One can ride Western two handed, and with a Western bit. However for a UK person what they want to learn is specific: one hand riding, including neck reining - I know one can use rein on neck in English and dressage too, but that is not the point.

I think that you are right that it is going to be harder for someone new to western to really distinguish if there is no distinction !

But there is also often a view that western is only about curb bits - when it is the whole big thing :)

But I do think that using a Western bit (don't know its proper name) with the reins attached by leather or rope to metal side bits that hang down, is fit for purpose and conveys a subtle directional signal to the horse.

yes - this is about the weight and hinging of the reins - which are specific to the bridle and bit so not just about "one rein riding"

Any one who has regularly led a horse in a snaffle bit and bridle will know that occasionally it can shift sideways. Unlike a snaffle the Western bit does not shift from side to side with side to side movement of the reins.

ah - but the bits are really not different. A D-ring snaffle is a SD-ring snaffle BUT the western snaffle is often used with a leather strap across the back - which may be where you are feeling that different stability ?

[Jessey]

TBH I have never seen there to be a difference between a snaffle here or in the US (western), a snaffle is a snaffle ;) which ever side of the pond it is from, until you get into shanked snaffles (tom thumbs), which are really not snaffles at all just a single jointed mouth piece (like that of a snaffle) on shanks which works in a completely different way - but its the name that confuses things. Also a bridle is just a bridle, it holds the bit in the horses mouth. Having an english bridle on a western horse does not stop it from responding in the same way (unless you start putting nosebands etc on, but TBH my western youngster is wearing a caverson at the moment for training purposes which is no different to many western nosebands but say a flash would be) riding western is more about the general theory, slightly different cues and position and attitude - not about what tack is on the horse :D

Saying that, when you are new to it that can seem odd, but so many things about english and western are the same/similar, perhaps just explained differently or at different stages in the learning process and priority is put on different things. I can get on my cross trained horse in a dressage saddle and english bridle and whip off a reining pattern, just the same as in western tack I can pick him up and pop a jump or do a bit of dressage style work :D

[greeneyes13]

ive been eyeing up bitteroot ranch for months now but its just so expensive!!

do let us know how you get on!

[Skib]

Greymane
Did you go on your holiday? Are you still visiting NR?
I just posted some info on riding hats and air travel at

http://www.newrider.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1277187#post1277187

I hope all goes well with you and your friend. My OH has had 8 riding lessons (English tack) and we are going for a first trail ride Western next week.

[greymane]

Hello Skib

Yes I'm still around lurking/reading/absorbing as much info as possible from NR! Thanks for the link to the riding hats & air travel.

Haven't been yet. We fly out on the 7th July so its not so far away now. Still having lessons but only sometimes Western as they are short on trained horses at the moment. Had a few issues with my riding position - or lack of it, mainly due to lack of fitness on my part so I'm cycling as much as possible and have pinched husband's 'Stokke' posture chair so I'm hopefully learning to sit correctly.

Hope you and you OH enjoy the trail ride next week. Where are you going?

[greymane]

Well, its time for me to think about packing :)

We fly out this Saturday, July 7th. Can't wait :)

[poohsmate]

Have a great holiday, have you got room for a stowaway in your luggage LOL...i need to get away from this rain!!!!!!!! and don't forget the pics:D:D:D

[RustyMary]

Gosh - have a FAB time, and as poohsmate says, we expect loads of pics!

[greymane]

Thanks for your good wishes poohsmate & RustyMary:)

I intend to have a thoroughly grand time and forget that I'm 50 this year, although at the end of it I'll probably feel my age.

Sadly, due to baggage weight restrictions there isn't any room for stowaways!

[Jessey]

No room for stowaways but we brought so much stuff back with us :D we now always pack spare bag in the one we take for all the goodies on the way home :p
Have a great time, I really hope it is the trip of a lifetime for you and can't wait to hear how you get on :D

[KateWooten]

oooh - you're going to bitterroot ! that's the hq of equitours isn't it ? they host a bunch of good clinics there - and you can ride english just as easily there as western, can't you ? i've definitely seen them promoting their xc-course before.

[greymane]

The very same. No clinics on whilst we are there though unfortunately. I know they have Linda Tellington-Jones there and start all their youngsters with her methods.

I am trying desperately not to take too much in case there is some retail therapy in the offing. We have a day in Denver on the way back before our flight in the evening but thats about it.

[greymane]

Well I'm back! Thank you for all advice and good wishes received before I went. It was a truly fabulous experience or to quote the Americans 'awesome'. One picture that sums it up for me................I hope I've got this right!

[fitz]

Wow! that is a cool pic...
Any more details?

[greymane]

Fits, glad you like the picture. I have lots more details and could probably bore everybody solid.

What made the experience so special was the horses. The one I'm on in the picture was a Quarter Horse but most were Arabs and all western trained. Nearly all were born and bred on the ranch.

We had an assessment on arrival and two lessons, the last one on riding at 'liberty' ie no reins but with lariat hoops and slight shifts of body weight - amazing.

[laura jeanne]

greymane, please tell all and show your pictures. This is a place I've been considering for a while.

[greymane]

Laura jeanne - What would you like to know in particular?

If you've been looking at this ranch just go. The horses, the land and the food are out of this world.

[greymane]

Some more pictures.............

[laura jeanne]

Anything you would like to share, I won't be bored!!

[greymane]

LJ - I hope you don't mind me shortening your name? I see you are a US citizen. Most of the people who were with us were from the states, from the east coast and some from California. Quite a few had riding experience and the more you have the better you would enjoy this ranch.

We were assesed when we arrived and us being brits (I went with a good friend) we put ourselves down a bit and found ourselves moved up a group.

They are quite strict and the better you prove yourself to be the better the horse you get to ride. Because of this their horses remain willing, forward going and fantastic rides. My lesson horse was a 23 year old Arab as spritely and as fit as any youngster.

'Saving backs' was a mantra - standing in the stirrups for all canters and whilst going uphill. The horses went on a loose rein - they had to so they could see and negociate the difficult terrain.

[Joyscarer]

OMG I am so jealous. I'd love to do that but my OH isn't horsey and wants to do the states on a Harley instead :rolleyes:

I wouldn't mind doing both :D

[greymane]

Joyscarer

Your OH would love it. Guess what we saw on the road on the journey there and back? Yep - loads of Harleys on the road. Fabulous beasts. All ridden without helmets - 'Easy Rider' eat your heart out:p. I bought my son a t shirt from Denver airpot Harley shop- 'mile high Harley' it was called!!!

[laura jeanne]

Thanks! What did you do for the assessment?

I went to a dude ranch in northern California after I had been riding for 3 months. I can't say I knew much about what I was doing but the 2-hour rides twice a day were no problem and we went up and down hills, across water, etc. and had a fabulous time.

I like to get out where there is no one for miles and miles. The best vacation I ever took was in the boundry waters canoeing area on the northern edge of Minnesota with Canada right across the lake. We could canoe all day and never see anyone. (stayed in a lush cabin tho hehe) In fact, they actually have horseback riding there now which they didn't then: http://www.gunflint.com/

[Montana]

Fantastic pics greymane - more detail please, whatever you want to share, I'll listen to. Looks like an awesome experience - great photos too:D

[greymane]

LJ - We had had to grade ourselves before we went and decided 'novice' was the most appropriate category.

When we got there we were all taken down to the sand school and put through the paces. We had to trot over poles rising trot/posting and in two point position. We also had to canter in two point position which is their preferred way of riding on the trails to safeguard their horses' backs.

We also had to show that we could neck rein on a loose contact and they tested this by the use of bending poles!

Apparently lots of people overestimate their ability and there is much swapping around in groups on that first morning.

My friend and I got moved up to the intermediate group and given different horses. The head wrangler was very complimentary and said that they usually find that the Brits can ride better than they say on their forms!

[greymane]

Hello Montana,

Yes it was awesome! I've never been anywhere where there are so many different trails to ride. We rode twice a day and a different route taken each time.

Everybody was allocated 3-4 horses so no horse was overworked and they all remained fresh. I had five because one of mine went lame. The horse I rode on the last all day picnic ride was one I hadn't ridden before. Mostly I had Arabs apart from one Quarter Horse. My friend rode all Quarter Horses.

The wranglers were all girls most of whom were doing the job for the summer although some seemed to have been coming back year after year. There were two English girls on summer placements from University where they were studying to be vets. The rest came from all over the states.

They tended to ride the youngsters, getting them ready to add to the guest string as their training progressed.

LJ - I forgot to mention - Gunflint Lodge looks great!

[greymane]

Some more pictures.........:)

The second picture is taken at 6.30 am when all the horses come down from the hill where they spend the night grazing. Its an amazing sight to see them all together as a herd.

The first picture shows the herd of youngsters who all live together. I had my eye on a small bucksin filly, but even she was too big to fit in my suitcase!

[Montana]

That scenery is incredible isn't it. I'm going back out to Texas (my sister manages a ranch there) in November, and really looking forward to it, haven't been in years. It's glorious hill and big blue skies, but it seems to lack the rugged wildness you had there. Got me tempted to try elsewhere now though!

How much do the wranglers know about the area etc if they tend to be fairly transitional? Do you get to really feel the culture there?

[greymane]

The head wrangler has been doing the job for 20 years. Some of the others have been coming back year after year for the season (they only take guests from July to the end of September I think) and the new ones seem to have been grilled to remember all the stories to be told, routes taken, where to trot and which places are safe for long canters etc.

The owners can tell a good story or two!

Lucky you going to Texas Montana. Will it still be warm in November? By that time in Wyoming they will be snowed in!

As regards to the culture, there is a square dance in the nearest town every Tuesday and a rodeo on Fridays. These are run by the townsfolk for themselves but any visitors are welcome to join in. They are family affairs with participants from 2 to 80.

[Skib]

We are so glad you had a good time. It sounds a very luxurious centre with good horsemanship. And your preparation sounds to have paid off?

We drove north from Jackson through the Grand Teton, the other side of that range. Where you went must be very remote.

[greymane]

Hello Skib

I had a truly fantastic time thank you:)

The preparation paid off handsomely, including the journey which had been up to me to organise.

We chose this place because of the emphasis on horsemanship. The fact that most of the horses had been born and bred on the ranch. They tell a lovely story of a mustang who had been gentled in a prison programme and then purchased by the ranch and used in the guest string and of a wild horse who turned up and joined the herd and also now ridden by guests.

I've never met such polite horses - both on the ground and in the saddle. Not to say they are spirited or horse like though - we witnessed their reaction to coming across a group of firefighters up on the mountain!! And a differently coloured rock took a lot of peering at to make sure it was safe :rolleyes:

I think it helped that most of the horses had been born and bred on the ranch. the youngsters are started with Linda Tellington-Jones' methods - which I don't know much about.

We also got to do one lesson in the sand school 'at liberty'. No reins and just a hoop to neck rein with - fantastic.

[Montana]

Sounds fantastic:)

It should still be pleasantly warm in TX in Novmember, tends to be cooler in the mornings/evenings, but can still get up to 70 or so as I remember - it's a nicer time for me than now, with the high temps and humidity - I don't know how they do it!

Sounds as though they really take care with starting their youngsters too - nice place:)