Nightmare!!!

[redadair]

Hi

I have my first horse finally after riding lessons for two years a 17 hh bay mare who was sold to me as by an instructor who had her for 3 years for dressage as her confirmation was not great decided to sell her, bomb proof no vices etc. Since buying her in August she has reared whilst hacking in summer, has a tendancy to bite when either rugging up and saddling up, head tossing when riding (teeth ok) tries bucking when asking for a transition and more recently after riding in the fields and cooling off in the school she reared and bucked me off very unexpectedly whilst walking to cool down . I am now getting to the stage where I don't want to ride her as I'm not sure what to expect next . Can anyone help???


:confused:

[Vix3n]

It's still early days.... with one particular horse i have , it took just under a year to bond with him and for him to trust me.
Maybe have a break from riding for a bit and concentrate on ground work instead.
I personally think it is rare for a horse to go to a new owner and not 'try it on' at some point. And it is usually down to trust.
Don't give up, it will get better.
Goodluck :)

[redadair]

thanks Vix I certainly stick with it she's a lovely girl although I said I'd never have a mare!!

[Zingy]

Have you had her back checked? Changes in behaviour are usually down to pain, so you need to have everything checked over before you put anything down to her 'trying it on'.

Is her workload any different now to what it was? If so, a change in shape may mean her saddle doesn't fit. I'd go with a saddle fit check plus have a physio or osteopath to check her back.

Have you changed routine or feed? Again, these will have dramatic effects on some horses.

[cazrider]

Hi redadair, that's a shame things are so difficult. Couple of questions, how do you keep her? and how was she kept before? Where did you get her tack? and what help do you have? And have you asked her previous owner for advice, and if so, what did she say? Did she do any of this when you tacked up and rode her when trying her, and did your instructor help you buy her?
How old is she? and what had she done before the person before you had her? And, apart from what you've described, what else has she done with you? Have you had her back/teeth checked?
What does your instructor say about the issues you are having?

Lots of questions, as there may be several reasons for this change in behaviour, as in

1. May not be a change in behaviour if you didn't try her much before you bought her. This may be normal.
2. She may being ridden a lot less now than she was then, which may be causing the issue.
3. You may be giving her different feed, which may also be causing issues.
4. She may have been turned out then and not now, which could also cause this.
5. Her tack may not fit, back be sore, or teeth may be giving her trouble. You did mention her teeth, so I'm assuming you've checked that, but a sore back could be the cause of the bucking in a transition. What does your instructor say?

Do any of these make any kind of sense? There may well be more reasons than these. I really hope you can resolve this, as she's a big girl to be trying things on in this way.

http://www.newrider.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100762

Just read the above thread, which may have something to do with it if you have only had the issue last summer and now.

[redadair]

Thanks Zingy

Her routine has changed as her previous owner used to see her during the day I see her every evening & weekends . She was a bit overweight when I got her so reduced her feed, I have also cut her conditioning cubes as I thought the content was maybe the reason for her 'attitude'. Her previous owner did have her on sugarbeet during the winter (2 scoops a day) which I havn't given her as I don't think that would help the situation She's having dengi hi fi and cool mix at the mo do you think it could be this ?

I am also toying with the idea of getting her back checked out an instructor her saddle looked @ but how far do you go or is just me I can't handle her??
:confused:

[redadair]

Hi Caz

Thanks for the advice.

I have contacted her previous owner and to be honest wasn't much use ! I think I need to have her back checked for sure. I bought her with tack and apart from hacking she was previously used for dressage but due to her confirmation (pigeon toed) her owner decided to part with her.

She's kept @ a private yard where to be honest with you there is only three horses they are turned out during the day and come in for the night I must add though they have been organised shoots on (pheasants) on over the last couple of months which has not got down with her too well either. Falling off her recently has highlighted she far too big to be making a habit of it and a lifetime passion is fast becoming one to shelf as 'done & dusted':eek: :confused:

[KarinUS]

I am also toying with the idea of getting her back checked out an instructor her saddle looked @ but how far do you go or is just me I can't handle her??
:confused:

No, no! With symptoms like these having the saddle fit checked would be the first thing. It's not going too far at all to evaluate the possibility of an ill-fitting saddle in fact it seems she matches the profile of a horse in back pain perfectly.
I'd definitely give her the benefit of the doubt and work on making her more comfortable rather than put it down to control issues.

I am hoping galadriel or poohsmate will see your thread and respond. If they are busy and don't see it you may want to PM one of them?

[redadair]

Thanks Karin

I'll book for somebody to take a look at her as soon as poss and let you know how I get on :)

[Herbie's mummy]

It's still early days....

Not for it to be doing all that like bucking rearing etc etc.

Get teeth.back and tack checked.

[Skib]

I am the safety fanantic on this list. I dont think bucking and rearing is good.
Rearing is down right dangerous for the rider.
Biting is dangerous too.

I'd say you are right not to want to ride this horse at the moment.

17 h is a big horse too, for an RI to pass on to a student.
It may be that an instructor rides with more authority than a novice. And you now have bad behaiour on the ground as well as when riding. If so, you may need professional help to re-train the horse.

Just one thought. Could she be in pain from the pigeon toes? And be lame without you realising? I loved a RS horse that had pigeon toes and though he wasnt old, he had to be retired completely very soon after I first rode him. owners who love horses dearly may always hope that with different work such a horse may have a happy life, so they sell them on, but sadly it doesnt always happen.

[Roheryn]

I second what Skib says, and add to Cazrider's question about your instructor--what does he/she say about the mare? There's nothing like a good instructor!

[Pink's lady]

To be honest she sounds like she's being a brat and taking the P***.

I would certianly give her the benifit of the doubt and have everything checked over but I suspect she's finding her feet and being bad-mannered and bullying sod.

Two years riding lessons is not a long time at all and you won't have learnt very much about horse language and metality in that time (unless you were very lucky). The biggest problem that new novice owners have is their horse bully's them. They don't see it because they don't know that it's not normal and it's not until is starts to rapidly spiral downwards that help is sought.

Bullying can be minor such as invading your space but it can quickly become a serious problem, leading to temper tantrums and aggression. And it needs to be nipped in the bud - many novice owners don't see it starting and therefore don't/can't stop it.

After having her saddle and back checked over I would reccomend having some good ground work lessons. You're RI might not be the best person to help you - many RI don't know that much about groundworks and how to teach a novice it, so it might be work getting in a specialist. It's not very expensive (about the price of a private riding lesson) and would be well worth the money.

[Stella2]

I'm sorry to hear that you are having these problems, its a miserable situation for you. :(

I agree with Skib and Pink's Lady. One other problem if Pink's theory is correct is that some horses are more dominant than others and some are more willing to chuck themselves about than others. so although most, if not all horses will work their way up the herd hierarchy (and you are part of her herd, she will do it with you as she would another horse) if they see from the body language of another that they can, some are more aggressive and will push harder than others. The early years of horse ownership are a whole other ball game to handling riding school horses. Everything is more magnified with a privately owned horse for several reasons and its easy for the new owner to show the wrong body language without knowing it and for the horse to respond by 'thinking', "ah, she isn't lead mare, the role must be open for me to move into" so to speak. But some horses will just get bargey, invade your space, walk off with you (on the ground and sometimes under saddle), and/or plant themselves and refuse to do as you ask. This sort of thing is natural behaviour for a horse, their communication is all about body language and they are very finely tuned to it.

A novice can get on top of that sort of thing fairly easily if they learn about horse communication. Horses that are prepared to push harder, 'up their game' so to speak (including bucking and rearing etc), may always prove a handful for a novice owner because they have a stronger character and will push it until the situation is dangerious.

I don't want to bring you down by saying this, but too many people learn this the hard way and if you don't find a way of improving this soon, you may want to consider selling her and getting something that would be naturally happier further down the hierarchy.

Also re your point about getting her back checked and how far we should go for our horses. Physiotherapy for a ridden horse really should be the norm and they should be checked at least annually, so that wouldn't be going far at all. With a new horse, I tend to arrange for everything (teeth, saddle and back) to be checked within the first couple of weeks because whatever people say, we can't be certain about when, or to what standard, these things have been done. some horses haven't been checked for years and could be in significant pain and that is bound to interfere with any new relationship between horse and owner. I bought my mare from a reputable good dealer. She told me that she had had her teeth done, but not her back checked (she didn't come with tack). Nevertheless, I had both checked. My Dentist is a qualified equine dentist, the bloke that was said to have checked her teeth before was a traditional 'tooth man'. My guy said that she had recently had her teeth done, but he felt there was more to do for her to be comfortable. It also turned out that her poll was 'out' so her back was very sore. This was no reflection on the woman I bought her from, she could have done that travelling in the wagon to me. Anyway, thankfully, I had only ridden her a couple of times before having her treated. Even being very sore though, there was no bucking or rearing, its not her style and some horses cope with pain better than others.

I hope this doesn't come across as preachy. Its not meant to be. Just my thoughts, hope they might be of some use to you :)

[Rips]

As well as whats been said about (back/saddle/teeth) I would be a bit skeptical of her previous owner - you don't just decide after 3 years of dressage that a horses conformation is too bad to continue, especially a riding instructor, would have taken pigeon toes and conformational limitations into consideration when buying.

Unless its a case where she progressed so far until she couldn't progress any furthur - if that were the case, then possibly the horse could be a bit beyond your ability (basing this on the fact that you have to be at a reasonably high standard of dressage before small conformational issues become a problem)

Not many riding instructors that I know ride horses that would also be suitable for novices/first time owners.

[Stella2]

Not many riding instructors that I know ride horses that would also be suitable for novices/first time owners. I'm afraid I'm with Rips on this too :(

[Libbyo]

As a novice who bought a horse a bit soon, I was bullied by Pinnochio, and CIlla. Ground work was a dark art to me.

In the last six months I have come to enjoy the ground work almost as much as a good ride and much more than a scary one. I feel I am working at a visual level with them, with my feet securly on the ground and watching them respond to me is brilliuant. definatly worth the hard work arm aching sore throated time doing it.

For me its come to pure joy this week. My new fjord was lunged for the first time ever on Sunday by me and our YO. He didnt understand and kept running off. Yesterday I did him again on my own with YO watching. He went almost good on both reins.

Coudnt have done this without the practice.

Its Fun, enjoy it.

Libbyo :)

[redadair]

Hi elveryone

Just a quick update to let you know how I'm getting on . Babe's had her back checked and she did have a couple of probs but now given all clear, saddle checked and all fine and I've had an instructor down to day to look at her and were starting work next week although she too advises horses just don't starting rearing but hey ho here goes andfingers crossed !!!!!!!

red:)

[Roheryn]

I hope all goes well! Keep us posted!

[mayoguinness]

Hope you get on ok:). It might also be a good idea to give Natural Horsemanship a go. The groundwork would be great for her and getting her to respect and trust you;)