Observation about "loose schooling"

[bexj]

Recently, we've needed to let our horses out loose in the school for some exercise. I let Molly out with her field-mate, Chloe, and whilst we don't school as such, I do tend to like to control speed and direction, to some extent.

Chloe is a 15year old TB, has lovely long loose paces, both under saddle and loose. Molly is a carthorse, who stomps about, both under saddle and loose.

Chloe never gets schooled under saddle - she is owned by a happy hacker, whereas I often school Molly as well as hack out.

So, my observation...I have spent a long long time, under saddle, encouraging Molly to round, to use her back end, to stop pulling herself along on the forehand, to relax her neck, poll and jaw, and we are just about getting there. However, loose schooling, she reverts to hollow, stomping, head out invariably pointing outside the circle, everything I am trying to school out of her. Chloe, on the other hand, goes round, in a beautiful outline, tracking up, bending in the direction of travel, extending and collecting as needs be.

Am I trying to make Molly into something she's not - if she doesn't work nicely loose, then what hope have I got under saddle?

[KateWooten]

Just out of interest, is either of them particularly dominant ?

(this is a half-formed not-yet-coherent idea of mine... so just wondering !)

[bexj]

Chloe is actually the boss mare in the field, although Molly does show extremely dominant behaviour often, both with humans and horses. Interested in hearing your theory.....:)

[Skyhuntress]

Well I can say that for darn sure Limerick looks like a bloody cow (and sounds like one too!) when I free school him. Doesn't matter that we're schooling 1st level, doesn't matter that the trainer thinks he can go Grand prix, he still goes around like a bloody tank ;)

Some horses will naturally just carry themselves better. Much like saying that a person will walk more gracefully then another-that doesn't mean that both can't be athletic, or that the less graceful one can't be a star, just means that a bit more work is needed to make it so

[cvb]

on one hand, however much I did classes I am never going to be tall enough or skinny enough to be a ballet dancer.

On the other, that does not mean I can't learn how to have good posture, move better, and dance in a style appropriate to my build !

Am I trying to make Molly into something she's not - if she doesn't work nicely loose, then what hope have I got under saddle?


so what kind of "dancer" do you want Molly to be ? Is it something she *can* be ?

If you can help her learn to move better, softer, it will help her generally and improve her longevity. For me that is a good enough goal in itself :) What you are seeing loose is giving you an idea of how deeply ingrained that way of going is - but it does not mean you can not help her move better (IMHO)

[KateWooten]

Well... it's not much of a theory I'm afraid :o

When I first got into trouble with Rosie (super-dominant) mare, I had a nice cowboy, John Nicely come to work with her in the roundpen - so - loose schooling. She resisted him for a good 40 minutes... but where I would have given up long before that, and never got her attention, he kept pushing her and pushing her. It was hard to watch. She was shuffling around in her nasty short-strided, hollowed out, eyes to the outside, stiff-necked usual manner ... she mostly does that in the pasture too.

However, finally, finally ... she flicked an ear to him, then put her nose near the ground... then a wait of what seemed like ages before she relaxed her jaw for the lick and chew.

And then she became a prancing, dancing high-school dresage horse. All collection suspension and flair... and tracking up ! She danced with him. I talked this over with John, and he asked me why I thought she'd done that .. without thinking, I could see clearly it was because she was right there, in the moment - there was no other thought in her mind. She was no longer thinking of how to dodge the issue, or how unfair it all was, or how she wanted to get back to her friends ... she was just right there, responding to him.

it was quite something to watch ... and it's quite something for me to get an occasional glimpse of it, still only occasional a whole year later.

So, I'm wondering if when they're in the school, Molly is all over the place attention wise - maybe she'd rather not bother, maybe she's going through the motions, maybe she's thinking about dinner ? Are you doing much actual work with them loose, engaging their attention, or more just observing them at play with little pressure ? Perhaps Chloe is more emotionally involved in the process ... I know with Rosie, she hides her emotions well until she can't contain them any more, at which point she's either explosive or, very occasionally, beautiful. It's just harnessing that particular point at which they are engaged, emotionally charged, and not yet crawling up the walls that's so elusive.

[bexj]

on one hand, however much I did classes I am never going to be tall enough or skinny enough to be a ballet dancer.

On the other, that does not mean I can't learn how to have good posture, move better, and dance in a style appropriate to my build !
I'd not thought if it like that - she's a cob, always a cob, quite a nice moving cob but never going to win the prize for floaty paces. However, her way of going HAS improved, and you are right, cvb, that has to be a good thing.

Kate, I also think you're assessment of Molly is quite correct. When I do school her under saddle, it does take a while to capture her attention, and get her emotionally involved. At that point, like Rosie, she will either decide to tune in or tune out. If I don't grab her imagination bang on that point, once she has tuned out, she stays out. Tune her in however, and she is a beautiful ride!

Loose, she doesn't pay anywhere near as much attention, and so yes, the hollow stompy cob manifests itself!

Thank you for your input, and your reassurance that my under saddle work isn't a complete waste of time.:)

[puzzles]

100% ditto cvb

[BeachRiding]

Hmm, Willie has bad paces, and is quite clumsy, after months of schooling he had improved but with loose schooling he reverts back to clumsy.

Gitcha on the other hand rarely gets any schooling yet he loose schools beautifully, collected,extended everything! Yet under saddle it takes forever to get him that way.

This is Gitcha first time lunging with me, I had just bought him. He had been kept in a stall for 7 months by his previous owner.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/willielove/AB020.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/willielove/AB036.jpg
Could be that Gitcha is more conformationally correct, younger, and well bred though.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/willielove/Gitchawelsh.jpg

Guess who hates working in an outline? Gitcha. Guess who loves dressage work? Willie :p