Barefoot advice (long)

[Nik-n-Kia]

Calling all barefoot peeps.

I am going to keep kia barefoot at the back for two maybe three shoeings to try and grow out some crumbly hoof that is a few centimetres from the bottom of the hoof.

had my new farrier here today who advised me that this would be best.

Kia hasnt had any back shoes on for nearly 5 weeks now as I had to find a new farrier (long story).

Here are some pics for you to look at and decide what you think. He is welsh cob.
back feet before trimming
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p120/Nik-n-Kia/hoof2.jpg
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p120/Nik-n-Kia/hoof5.jpg
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p120/Nik-n-Kia/hoof7.jpg
back feet after trimming
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p120/Nik-n-Kia/hoof12.jpg
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p120/Nik-n-Kia/hoof11.jpg
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p120/Nik-n-Kia/hoof13.jpg
Front feet before trimming/reshoeing
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p120/Nik-n-Kia/hoof4.jpg
Front feet after trimming/reshoeing
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p120/Nik-n-Kia/hoof14.jpg

Let me know if you think that he will be ok as the farrier has said that if he is sore or lame then he will come out and put the shoes back on.

Nikki xxxx

[Anro]

I (think) read some were that it depends on wheather your doing road work or not that if you are you should were shoes but im not an exepert our old pony didnt were any becous he just keept growing out of them so fast i hope this is some help:confused:

[Nik-n-Kia]

I do some road work but I have miles of forest to hack through should I wish.

Is roadwork bad then???

Nikki xxxx

[Anro]

I was searching the internet and i came up with this hope its some help :) http://www.ces.purdue.edu/extmedia/AS/AS_555_W.pdf

[HairyCob]

Do a quick search on NR for 'barefoot' and you'll come up with LOADS of stuff that may be useful!

I'm in the process of *trying* to go barefoot with Dolly, she's been 'bare behind' for eight weeks now, and we aren't having any problems... yet! BUT my farrier told me yesterday that he doubts she will cope barefoot once I start doing more work with her- all our hacking includes roadwork, and she's just wearing her feet down too quickly.

I'm reserving judgement however, as the advice I've had from barefoot people here is that although it may take a while, she *should* eventually be able to cope with the roadwork without shoes.

Sorry, I can't really answer your question as I don't know much about it myself, but I can say her feet look much nicer for their 'manicure'!:D

[Nik-n-Kia]

Thank you HC much appreciated.

Not really into NH myself really but if this helps his feet then I'll give anything a shot!!!

There are usually a few NH peeps on here have they all went into hibernation???

Nikki xxxx

[No_Angel]

the crumbly hoof on the bottom of his foot is probably just the nail holes growing out.
His bars look a bit long and his feet still look a bit flat, he may struggle with stony paths and things to begin with until he builds concavity.
how about popping on the enlightened equitation barefoot forum to ask there advice, they are all very knowledgeable.:)

for comparison, here is my ex racers feet a year after having her shoes off. shes still flat footed and has some way to go, but they are much improved from when i first took her shoes off
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/madams_walk/maddie/PICT0007-1.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/madams_walk/maddie/PICT0002-1.jpg

i was told by a vet that her feet were too short, but she always managed to grow some and i have to do atleast 1/2 hour riding on roads till i get to any grass. during the summer maddie was doing 10 mile rdes every other weekend with quite a bit of roadwork involved.

[Iron Maiden]

I'm no expert but I'm sure that if you take your time with Kia & have him regularly trimmed by someone who knows what they are doing, there's a very good chance he will be fine barefoot. We have many barefoot horses on our yard & so far only one has been re-shod. My old cob was like a different horse barefoot, his feet looked like a complete mess after he first had his shoes off - as No Angel says their feet can look raggedy as nail holes grow out, he also had loads of flare which resulted in big chunks of his outer wall falling off. He looked like his feet had been chomped by a crocodile! He was never lame or sore though and when the flare & nail holes grew out his feet looked wonderful. P's nail holes never caused any splitting when her shoes came off but she has fantastic feet, and has taken very little time to sort herself out.

If I were you I'd watch out for white line disease where the nail holes are, if you're not doing so already it's a good idea to treat them. I scrubbed cider vinegar into P's, there is also a herbal balm you can buy which is fabby. Bay Mare put the web link up for it a while back.

[Bay Mare]

http://www.pioneerpersonalcare.com/

The pages you need are:

http://www.pioneerpersonalcare.com/page4.htm for the balm (the large size is a typo for the price, I think it's about £16)

http://www.pioneerpersonalcare.com/page17.htm for the antifungal soap


Enlightened Equitation has a barefoot board where you may get more answers.

[MelanieD]

Small amount of road work would be good for them, just keep an eye on the wear, check the heels aren't being worn shorter than the frog and he isn't wearing into the sole too much or getting sore. They aren't too bad overall and there's probably not much point doing lots of conditioning if the shoes are going back on soon anyway.

There does look like there could be some white line disease there, having the shoes off might be enough to get rid of it, or there are plenty of things you can soak in to kill it off. Borax (2 teaspoons to a gallon of water I think, I'm naughty and use 'some') and milton (30%) are pretty popular. If it's stubborn infection that doesn't clear up then clean trax is good stuff.

There's some bruising on the white foot that could be a warning to watch out for laminitis, possible from a mild bout of laminitis last spring. The white line disease and crumbly feet is often a result of mild bouts of laminitis though not always, but combined with the bruising it's a bit suspicious. Supplementing with magnesium oxide can help but also need to be careful with diet.

[Nik-n-Kia]

I've heard of white line disease but never seen it.

He is getting betadine scrubbed into his feet at the mo as the farrier said that he might get a mild case of thrush as he has just trimmed his frog back.

Would that combat the white line disease??

His feet were ruined last year by poor farriery and made flat and he ended up with really bruised feet with shoes on.

He has always had that blood after he has been rasped. The three farriers who have seen to him don't seem to noticed it.

I just want his feet to not be crumbly. I've been rubbing cornucrescine soft and crumbly into his feet and that has helped them. Do you think that the shoes have been making the problem worse by continually breaking the bottom of the hoof???

How many shoeings does it take to gro those holes you can see out???

Sorry if I'm annoying you guys but this help is really good and your making me feel as though I've made the right decision!!

Nikki xxxxx

[Iron Maiden]

I've never tried betadine for thrush/WLD but it's good stuff so may well work. In my experience WLD creates a kind of cheesyness in the white line, if it'd bad the white line can have cavities in it which is why you need to really scrub any treatment in. If it gets bad the hoof wall can crack right through & bits of wall that have separated can drop off.

It took about 3 months for P's nailholes to grow out, so hopefully you shouldn't need to wait too long for Kia's to go - their feet all grow at different speeds though so hard to say exactly how long it will take.

It may well be worth trying a feed supplement to try to improve his crumbly feet from the inside. I've not had to use one but I'm sure other people will have experiences to share.

[Nik-n-Kia]

Thanks IM

I feed him feel good 30 hoof supplement and Biotin. His feet used to bend in the way if you know what I mean and that's what the last farrier had to fix because of the first one not doing it right.

I'm beginning to feel better about this as my natural reaction was SHOES SHOES SHOES!!! Now I'm thinking that this might help him a lot.

You guys are a mine of knowledge!!!!! :D :D

Nikki xxxx

[Bay Mare]

Top Spec Anti-Lam has a good write up among the barefoot community also supplementing with magnesium (Cal Mag or Mag Ox are popular).

For WLD/thrush I'd tend to go for a Milton soak (the nappy stuff) or a Borax soak. If that doesn't solve it then Cleantrax can be a one-off blitz solution (though a pain to do).

Betadine can be drying for the hooves so is ok as a one-off but shouldn't be used on a regular basis.

Other things that can be useful:

Cider Vinegar in a 1:1 dilution with water and a couple of drops of tea tree oil

The Pioneer stuff mentioned earlier

Honey or Propolis (I've been using honey successfully)

[Bay Mare]

Oh ... and re the trim ... I'd like to see a 'roll' put on which will take the weight off the outer wall and put it on the inner wall where it belongs, it will also help with cracks. Since I've kept a roll on Saff (inbetween trims) her feet have been much, much better and the crack has grown out better than it was previously.

[Nik-n-Kia]

Whats a roll???

Just so as I can ask my farrier for one if it'll help.

Nikki xxxx

[Nik-n-Kia]

I'm also going to try a hack tomorrow as my field is flooded out......
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p120/Nik-n-Kia/hoof9.jpg
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p120/Nik-n-Kia/hoof8.jpg

do you think that i should just head to the forest or should I try a little road work. He is not fit so trotting wont be long and hard as I don't want to hurt his legs/feet.

Will just be walking and maybe little short trots.

Nikki xxxx

Ps the 2nd pic is the standing water in the rest of the field that looks green!!!!

[Bay Mare]

Instead of the hoof wall being left flat across it is 'rounded' off so that the outer wall doesn't reach the ground.

Here's a hoof that has a mustang roll put on:

http://www.barefoothorse.com/gallery-24d.jpg

Can you see how the edge is rounded (some people say bevelled)?

[Nik-n-Kia]

I might print that pic off and show it to Daz my farrier and see if he can do that for me.

Thanks!!!!! :D

Nikki xxxxx :p

[Bay Mare]

http://www.barefoothorse.com/

This is a good site. There's a good description of 'heel first' landings and also a description of the mustang roll on the 'breakover' page.

[Nik-n-Kia]

Cheers I'm gonna look at it. It looks s though it will help me a lot.

Thanks :D

Nikki xxxx :p