Stirrup bars

[Sue Watson]

I have a little theory that I would like to test out on Heather!
If the correct position for a rider is to have a shoulder-hip-heel alignment, then the position of the stirrup bar will be determined by the foot size of the rider - assuming we want a perpendicular stirrup leather the distance between the hip and the stirrup bar will be the same measurement as the distance between the heel and the ball of the foot. Therefore people with size 4's (like me) will need a more extended stirrup bar than say a person with size 12's ??? and... I don't really know a thing about correct jumping position, but if there should also be the same shoulder-hip-heel alignment but with shorter stirrups then why don't jumping saddles also have extended stirrup bars?

[Lesha]

This theory makes sense to me! It would also explain why saddles traditionally designed by men are easier for men to get the shoulder/hip/ankle line in, as they will have designed for their own (bigger) feet!

[Maria]

I've ridden various horses in a variety of Heather's dressage saddles and always felt that the saddle encouraged me to sit in the correct position. I'm tall with long, fat thighs and big feet! I've seen a variety of different sized people use Heather's dressage saddles with similar results - so the foot size doesn't seem to be an issue with Heather's dressage saddles.

I agree in principle that the hip, shoulder, heel alignment should be carried across into jumping. But my experience in practice - based on just one GP with the stirrup bars placed further back to aid hip-shoulder-heel alignment - was that it didn't work for me and my fat cob. I was fighting against the leathers pulling my legs back even with the stirrups at flatwork length. I do have long thighs relative to my calves and I ride a short, wide, deep-girthed cob - so perhaps it was something to do with our combined confirmational vagaries.

Wouldn't it be nice if someone could come up with a simple mathematical formula to work out where the stirrup bar should be to aid sitting in the correct hip-shoulder-heel alignment - at least for saddles ridden mainly by one person. And wouldn't it be interesting to see how much difference there was depending on whether stirrups were flatwork or jumping length? So where are the mathematicians amongst our number? Or are we just trying to make things too complicated?

Is it more a question of thigh length compared to lower leg length and stirrup length, rather than the size of foot?

Maria

[Tina J]

The shoulder/hip/heel alignment is a good starting point, but it is intended as an image to aid people in tuning in to being in balance with the horse - not to give a totally rigid, unbending rule. A better picture to me is that if you took the horse from underneath a rider, would they still be able to stand? If the answer is yes, then your body is going to be in pretty good alignment anyway. The point of balance moves as the horse moves, and differing foot sizes are tiny compared to the overall effects of how much your heels are lowered, how long the stirrups are, and how much tension you have in your riding.

If the stirrup bars are placed so that when you sit correctly in the saddle, they are just under your pelvis, and you then sit tall, without rigidity, then everything else follows.

Sorry, but foot size seems too tiny a bit of the formula to be that relevant. The difference between my dinky size 4s and my hubbys' size 10s looks huge, but when you hold them up, it is only about an inch.

Interested to know what Heather thinks though.

[fizz21]

What are Stirrup bars and what is a theory?

[Tina J]

Stirrup bars are the metal bit just under the skirt of the saddle, that you thread the stirrup leathers through. They're what the leathers dangle from ('scuse the lack of grammar there).

Put simply, a theory is an idea that someone has that they think will explain something, and they then set out to gather data that will prove their theory.

[Sue Watson]

The difference in the position of a normal stirrup bar and an extended stirrup bar (and presumably the stirrup bars on Heathers saddle - I haven't taken a good look at one) is really only a matter of inches anyway but this distance will be magnified quite considerably by the time you reach the foot. I agree that the shoulder-hip-heel alignment should not be set in stone but if the idea is to keep the leather as perpendicular as possible then the length of thigh to calf ratio will only alter the angle of bend in the knee.

I wasn't trying to theorise on all the elements that make up good riding - just thinking aloud that an extended type stirrup bar is much more helpful to the rider than a forward one.

[Heather]

HI Sue,

Logical argument and one that we have debated before either here on on my egroup. However, as Maria says we have never found any difference with the size of the rider's feet making it easire or more difficult for them- with the bars further back the thigh hangs more verticaly from the hip, then it is easy for the rider to find a comfortable position for the foot in the required line. I don;t find that pepole with long feet have to stick their toes further forward to accommodate the extra length- logically it woudl suggest this! lord help my ex boyfriend who took size 13's in shoes and 14's in boots- 6'4" he may be, but when we were down at the beach one day, he suddenly realised that he had left his shoes at the water's edge, and thought the tide might be taking them with it- I couldn't resist commenting that I hadn't heard any shipping warnings in the last few minutes!!

Heather

[Sue Watson]

Yes, your thoughts about the vertical line of the thigh make sense to the stability and therefore comfort of the rider - presumeably there is then a very slight rotation forward of the pelvis off the seat bones to a more upright position. At the end of the day I realise the theory doesn't matter as long as the result works, but I'm afraid I'm one of those irritating people who likes to know Why.

[Heather]

Not irritating Sue, just showing intelligence and interest- two rare commodities at times in the horseworld!!!

The rider should be sitting on the bottom edge of the seatbones, not the back edge, which then causes the lower back to round, and create pressure on the reflex points in the horse's back under the cantle region.

When you can get down to see us again, I must show you this using the simulator - I get you to place your hand under the cantle region between the panel and horse's back and feel what the horse feels- it horrified the vet students at Cambridge Veterinary College when I was asked to do a lecture there on 'Riding Related Injuries to the Horse'!


Heather