It cant be this easy?

[Tootsie4U]

After a four month break, I was able to ride Bonfire on Sunday. I warmed him up on the lunge for a good bit and then hopped on for nothing more than a half hour. At first he was wobbly and it took alot of work on my part to get him to bend but after 20 minutes or so he was going nicely. For short spurts he was even offering his back, softening in the bridle and lowering his head - all without me really even asking.

That just doesnt seem right.

He is really unfit and overweight and Im somewhat out of practice too. So Im guessing what could have been happening was Mr. Sly offering some false head set to patronise me.

Would a horse coming straight from pasture with a rider a little rusty on her part be able to work somewhat reasonably or do you think he's got the wool pulled over my eyes? Is it possible?

I've got no eyes on the ground. I have the inkling that if I asked for more (impulsion, engagement, contact) he would have given it to me that day.

[flintybaby]

He he, I sometimes think that after a break we expect very little of our horses so when they actually behave it seems like the horse fairy has been and swapped us for something better. I normally find that we go backwards after a good start and then forwards again. You might be different but dont expect too much and you may be nicely surprised!! Good luck. http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k266/flintybaby/Icons/action-smiley-033.gif

[Tootsie4U]

:D Yes, and that fairy was on double over time that night because it was also the first time riding at this new barn in the new indoor on a cold snowy night with the wind blowing and... and we were all alone with no one around! Eeek, scary :D

[teabiscuit]

i can leave finn for a fortnight and get on and get some good work done, we can pick up where we left off

but more interesting than that is i have left a horse all winter without work and hopped on and picked up where we left off, and this has been done with a lot of youngsters just starting off again after a winter off after being backed

but the way i back them, it takes forever and a day, and most people would say i'm far too soft for going so slow, but the thing is they don;t forget.its always there

i think you've got bonfire so established now that you can do that with him at that higher level

[flintybaby]

Maybe he was that scared he thought he better behave himself or something nasty may happen he he. Enjoy it while it lasts!!

[teabiscuit]

Maybe he was that scared he thought he better behave himself or something nasty may happen he he. Enjoy it while it lasts!!

:D ye of little faith :D

[Mehitabel]

well, you did say he's been growing up a lot lately.

[Cabbitt]

What worries me is that you only talk about him lowing his head and his back. What's important is that the horse is stepping under himself and correctly using his hind end. ANY horse, even very unfit horses, can EASILY drop their head, which will appear to make their back come up, but they could not actually be doing any work at all. However, actually using it's back end is very difficult and tiring for a horse.
Don't worry about the head-- when the horse is correct behind, he will be driven INTO the bridle and his head will come down. Don't ride your horse from the front to the back, ride him from the back to the front. Worry about your impulsion, and THAT will cause his head to come down. Too many horses nowadays go in a "false frame" with round necks but nothing to back it up. People are becoming obsessed with their horses necks and heads, if they're down and round, not realizing that that's just a side effect of impulsion and being driven onto the bit.
Not saying that's our problem, but it's something to think about.

[Tootsie4U]

Thanks Cabitt for that reminder. :)

But, you can't have engagement if the horse isnt soft, willing and obedient either. Its an entire package. The sum of all parts working together in unison. If my horse is freely offering his back and is soft in the bridle without prompting, then it'd be easier for me to ask for the impulsion and engagement if I wanted to that day.

Sometimes depending on conformation, you can get a horse who looks and appears to be tracking up, but yet still isnt engaged enough. Its just another example that an outline comes from all things, not just one. And you're right, especially not only from the head being forced down.

The lifted back and soft head was just showing me he's ready for work mentally. I just have to work on the physical part now ;)

[BeachRiding]

When I bring Willie back into work after a long break he will give me a beautiful headset no matter what, he does engage a little but not much.
It could be that Willie was a western pleasure horse though, so they concentrate on headset, and let them go flat up front for slow gaits. Most WP horses are on the forehand.

[Cabbitt]

Thanks Cabitt for that reminder. :)

But, you can't have engagement if the horse isnt soft, willing and obedient either. Its an entire package. The sum of all parts working together in unison. If my horse is freely offering his back and is soft in the bridle without prompting, then it'd be easier for me to ask for the impulsion and engagement if I wanted to that day.

Sometimes depending on conformation, you can get a horse who looks and appears to be tracking up, but yet still isnt engaged enough. Its just another example that an outline comes from all things, not just one. And you're right, especially not only from the head being forced down.

The lifted back and soft head was just showing me he's ready for work mentally. I just have to work on the physical part now ;)

I 100% agree that you need your horse supple before he can be correctly engaged. However, I disagree that the correct way to achieve or measure that suppleness is by artificially lowering his head. A horse which is soft and supple can be supple in, say, the free walk or trot, or, for the jumper, with his head up (as is the American style of jumping).
I don't necessarily measure whether a horse is truly using itself with impulsion by if it's tracking up, for reasons that you mention (although that is typically a good guide). What you want to see is if the horse tucking it's back end, lightening it's forehand, and bending through the hocks and bringing it's hooves far underneath it's body. Tracking up and a round neck are only side effects of correct engagement. However, for a horse to use it's back end, reach under itself, and lighten its front end takes a great deal of physical strength and fitness to maintain for any length of time, and a horse is totally capable of having a beautiful, round neck and "correct" head placement without doing any of those more important, fundamental things. People today are becoming obsessed with necks and totally forgetting (or never even becoming aware) of the fact that the neck is only a byproduct of engagement, and a "frame" without engagement is just soo much fluff.

I hope this clarifies my earlier point. You seem to know what you're doing, though.