dealing with nipping in an older horse

[Dummer&Drummer]

another thread inspired me to look into different ways to deal with this

our situation is that we have brought a pony that occasionally nips (not bites) until we have him saturday :D it is quite hard to anticipate any problems as there may not really be one. pony is slightly head shy.

we dont have an issue with this pony and he is adorable, but always good to get about 10 ideas of how to deal with situations before and if they arise and see which one may work best

old owners (we know them and the pony) say it is occasional and she just ignores it

i also know that this is a bit of an arab trait (pony is arab x section b)


i got this from a monty roberts thread that i have heard about

Your mother-in-law is correct in her feeling that she should not raise her hand to Guy. I have worked with hundreds, possibly thousands, of horses that bite, and I have found a very simple and effective solution. When Guy reaches to bite Pauline, she needs to tap him lightly on the shin of his leg with her foot. I am not, repeat, NOT, encouraging her to strike Guy to cause pain. What I am endeavoring to do is cause Guy to associate the thought of biting with discomfort in another part of his body, namely his front leg. This is a form of behavior habituation, and within 6-8 repetitions you will see that Guy moves to nip and then looks down at his leg. This training will extinct the behavior within a short period of time.

i also just read a theory i quite liked the sound of, when the horse goes to nip, get in close to him and by his neck, makes him hard to reach you, and turn him in repeated circles, then praise him and carry on what you were doing

[Mehitabel]

when does it happen? are there certain circumstances when he nips -girthing, feeding etc?

the first thing is no hand feeding of treats until you get to know him better - food comes in a bucket and only in a bucket, and is put in the bucket out of sight, so he never associates your hands or pockets with food.

then, avoid the circumstances if you can - if he nips at being girthed, then make sure someone holds his head away from whoever is doing the girth up, make sure DDJ doesn't fiddle around his muzzle too much. is it an opportunistic thing, whne a tasty arm is wafted under his nose, or does he move his head round to do it?

given he is headshy, obviously avoid all the muzzle-oriented things that work on bolshy and confident nippers like whisker-tweaking.

the shin-kicking is not something i've ever had success with personally (and can we please take it as read i'm not saying boot them with steel toe caps? i am sure we all know nobody is advocating laying into the horse as if you're kicking it to death) for nipping, although petal does get kicked in the shins fairly regularly for waving a front leg around. it works for the short term but i've not found it helpful for eradicating a long-held habit.

see how he goes - be cautious, be careful on food and just keep DDJ away from teeth until you have the measure of him.

[Dummer&Drummer]

not girth, tacking up, grooming related

when amy tried him after falling in love with him in the saddle, she loaded and unloaded him in and out of trailer, led him, put on and off head collar untacked him, and put on and did up rug. before putting on rug she did ask owners how she should do it (re carefully etc) and they said just chuck it on, with everything you do just treat him as you normally would.

he put his nose up to amys hands and she stood quiet and let him smell her although looking at me as if to say, well this could be it :) but he was ok :)

owners nearly did not mention it, as it is not only occasional and not a problem for them

from what owner says or i can gather, it maybe in the morning whilst she changes rugs and at this same time he is also waiting for his food.

we can sort of eliminate a bit of that, we dont change rugs daily and food wise we will watch and see

it does not seem as though it is nasty behaviour in that he does not swing his head round fast, apparently we will know beforehand !

he is very dinky :)

[capalldubh]

Hi D&D,

Pony sounds lovely!

Just a suggestion - you say he "nips"? Horses and ponies often nip each other in play - key thing to look at is what his face looks like when he's doing the nipping and when it happens...

If he's nipping because he's anxious of being handled/having people fiddle about under his tummy (very common and hard not to do when you're changing rugs)/waiting to be fed, he'll look a bit p***ed off :) Time and gentle handling, and getting him used to being touched in odd (to him) places will help lots.

If he's wanting to play (nip and shove is a very common game among boy horses), he'll look quite different - ears won't be pinned for one thing. When my boy does this, I just push his head away gently and say "humans can't play that game", then give him a wee scratch on the neck when his head is turned away from me. He's pretty much stopped doing it now (just does it to his friends ;) ).

Good luck with the pony and really looking forward to pictures :)

[Dummer&Drummer]

ah thank you

no i dont think he is playing, i think he is intending to nip, his ears are back. apparently and it will be easy for us to tell (again still stress this is occasional) i know with drums, he does not nip but believe me he could and would like to, this is around food time or if he is hungry and either leave him to it and respect his space or if i am doing something he gets an elbow in the mouth at the stage these thoughts enter his brain lol:D (and no this does not hurt him lol) its just an 'oy dont even go there'

we are just trying to be prepared, you know with handlement ideas so we do things right right from the start :)


i think this pony really cops it in the field and is picked on by other horses (this is where my lovely drummer comes in, drummer is perfectly placid in field and with sharing hay, just not HIS BUCKETand likes his space at bucket times from other horses but they can not mistake his request for this lol)

i think a few things
this pony is prob maybe just a 'gelding' eg around food he is on the timid side (maybe not dealt with correctly when he was at an age to learn right from wrong) which is why we are hoping to handle it appropriately eg NOT elbow him like i do my main man who just pushes his luck from time to time :) and also not to turn this into an issue, treat him as buisness as ususal

will just ahve to wait and assess situations as they arise, if and when they do i think x

[Dummer&Drummer]

he is not bolshy nor bargy, and i know past owners had little problem and dealt with him very well

i am aware he 'may' (he may also not) want to test us and being a quiet timid pony it will i think be a trust thing not a bolshy owner demanding respect things - a quietly quietly thing i think (god ive learnt alot in a few years lol) ;)

[NoviceNic]

I too have heard about the tapping of the leg when the pony nips. As you have said it is very rare that this pony does it so I think that you will be able to draw the line and set the boundaries quite early on with him..:)

[puzzles]

all these comments i ditto, they're all valid and need to eb caefullt considered.
it is likely that he is in a strange environment, with strange people and a routine he as yet has not settled in to.
give him time and patience; with almost all 'nipping' incidents the best way to solve them is by ignoring them. your horse has probably found that he gets attention this way - even in a negative way, which in his eyes is better than none at all.
by all means have his teeth checked, and make sure he is receiving good-quality ad-lib forage (preferably hay) as horses who are denied enough forage tend to nip.
make sure you are not doing something he does not like; when does he tend to nip? when you are doing up the girth, grooming his head, rugging up, arounf feeding/turnout times.
also make sure he has things to occupy him, as a bored horse willr esort to nipping asa means of enetrtaining himself in one of the few ways he acn./
NEVER smack him or punish him in any way. this may well have been learned as your horse was growing up, and especially if he does it when you groom him (in a non-aggressive manner) then he is probably 'grooming' you back as je would with his equine pair bond. give him a neighbour in the stable/at least one companion in the field who he can socialise with.
anyway, as he is slightly head shy smacking will definately make this into a much more potentially serious problem. hitting ruis trust and does not heal the cause; the problems we horse people tend to see every day are most often symptoms, reacting to a problem inself. considering his headshiness he has probably been hit before; especially if he moves away from you at al afetr a nip.
try to pinpoint what triggers his nipping; is it in an aggressive way? would it be best to leave him along when he is eating, etc?
tapping his leg SUBTLY with your toe should distract him, but be acreful as i have known horses - being the clever chaps they are - to quickly work it out and go for your foot instead! especially for bad biters.
good luck!

[puzzles]

it is not necessary for methods to differ ebtween raining older and younger horses - it is becoming increasingly common knowledge that you can teach an old dog new tricks.

[KateWooten]

i also know that this is a bit of an arab trait

I don't believe that to be the case.

[Dummer&Drummer]

i not sure then

i can only go on what i know, i know yo has had arabs all her life (loves them) and it can be in them to give the occasional nip (her opinion) x

[allthegearnoidea]

We have had a similar problem with fatty he never actually has bitten-just threatens too. He would go to bite you when leading-thats stopped thank goodness. However he still makes like hes going to bite, usually in the morning when you go to put his headcollar on either in the stable or over the door, its like hes telling you hes hungry, as by the morning hes obviously eaten all his hay. If you go in with the hay net he will mob you for it, so obviously doesnt go to bite you, as hes to busy getting hay. I may start putting hay net outside of stable in the morning, let him see it and then put his headcollar on (brave the headwaving)and lead him out. Who knows who can work these horses out!!And just when you think you have got it sussed they do something new.Oh and by the way the tip ive heard for biting horses is to put a hot jacket potato in foil tape it to your arm when the horse`goes to bite move potato in the way, apparently they never bite again, not that ive tried it.

[puzzles]

well . . . arabs are more sensative than other breeds. whatever could be upsetting her thereofre may not affect another horse so much because of this.

[Purple Hugs]

i'm trying the leg tapping with peanuts at the moment ;)
fingers x'd it works! he's not a regular nipper though.. or biter, as he can be sometimes.

[Lot1983]

Sam nips (I am going to try the leg tapping thing this weekend!) we think he was beaten in his stable when he was younger (he's 19) and he gets very stressed about his personal space round his head (I groom and tack up outside) If you raise a hand (even to try and 'deflect' his head, just hold it up, and not even move it) then he gets worse (his nipping comes with ears back and nose thrust forwards)

The best way to deal with him is to talk gently too him and then if he goes to nip I say 'NO' in a very different tone of voice, it seems to relax him a bit (the other day I was grooming his face and he did a very convincing impression of a sleeping horse!!!)

Best teach DDJ your best authoratitive voice!

[puzzles]

i like that one, Lot. It does not require anything complicated, yet remeins a very effective device; many people underestimate the importance voice can have, and i much prefer this method to a more physical one.

[DITZ]

Never heard this one but its certainly worth a try.