Using spurs

[jUmPingIsLifE]

I try to steer away from spurs usually but Tahoe just gets so behind the leg sometimes. He doesn't want to step completly through and lengthen his short QH stride. He is extremly round and lifting his back and getting stronger every day now that he is in consistant work, you can really feel him there. but he still doesn't want to extend and really bring his hind end underneith him. A quick tap with the whip gives you about two or three strides but he dies quickly and by the end of the ride Its quite obviously out of the two of us I did most of the work. By using spurs I dont want to end up relying on them and having to ride in them forever, would they really help? will they in the long run make things worse?

I dont want to have to use spurs forever, most horses I see in them are always in them and wont do anything without them and are dependant on them. I dont want that at all. Any opinions/ideas? I have done raised calviletti and tried making them a bit long in distance and though it helps sometimes Tahoe also sometimes relizes he can just shorten up A LOT rather then extend. Besides, once past the caviletti I loose whatever I got from him.

[KateWooten]

I doubt you'd come to any harm using them - it's people who've never bothered to think about it who end up deadening their horses sides. And people who don't have a stable enough lower leg (me, for example but I know it, and I don't use them). You'll do fine.

OTOH, it's still early days yet isn't it, in terms of fitness for him? It takes a lot of strength to extend. Just give him time, and keep asking for it, in hand, on the lunge, under saddle, over poles... keep it varied, keep the expectation short, and praise him for every 'try' and I think he'll offer it more and more for you even without the spurs.

But I have to admit, every trainer I like, every trainer I study seems to using spurs, even just for rounding and getting the back end working ... and here I am still at the beginning of it all, wondering if my no spurs routine is going to get good results in the end. It's a bit early for me to know for sure.

[BeachRiding]

I use spurs on Willie, my old iron horse. He is normally quite lazy, but as soon as I give slight pressure he rounds his back,engages his behind, tucks his head and lengthens his stride. I would rec. them for your horse, just to try. I found after using teh spurs for about 4 times I no longer need them with Willie!

[Ms Kitty]

I use spurs only the same way as I do with a whip, only to touch every now and again to remind the horse of what I am wanting. But unlike with a whip, it is very easy to start using spurs with every step and then you are on your way to getting even less enthusiastic horse, especially if you are not experienced in using them.

It depends on how well you know how to use spurs to know whether it would be a good thing for you and your horse. If you have an instructor showing you how to use them (if you have never used them before) it might be a worth a shot. But in the long run it is better to get the horse going without spurs, in my opinion. I used to train my Trakehner without spurs and only used them when in dressage competition to get that extra bit out of him, and he was a very heavy horse to ride as he needed to be kept very short to get any extension out of him, and he was 17.3hh, and I am only 5'6".. :p

I always kept my spurs pointing downwards though, never pulled them so that they were on top of that little bit most boots have at the back of the heel, to avoid unnecessary contact to the horses flanks, even though I think my legs were and still are steady, and I was properly taught how to use them.

There is also always the chance that your horse is naturally very short gaited and the extension you are getting out of him doing the cavalettis is not very natural movement for him, and only comes out when he is lifting his legs to avoid contact with an obstacle.

Have you discussed these things with your instructor? I assume you have one..?

Nina x

[carthorse]

Spurs do have a place & it's perfectly possible to use them without coming to rely on them. Look on them as a refinement so that you can do less while geting more.

I often use them to school Jim. He's a big horse for me (16.2 ID) & so I sometimes need a little extra help to get more lift. I find a schooling whip useful but in a different way & he starts getting cross if I tickle him too much as it alters the rein contact. Likewise too much legwork from me becomes counterproductive as I move around too much for his liking - he's definately a case of less is more! Spurs let me make a more definate request while keeping everything else in place & he responds well to that. I think it also helps that I only ever use spurs if I intend to work him - if I'm prepared to "play" (charge around like a kid on a pony :o ) or I'm just exercising I never use spurs - & so he knows what is expected of him & is immediately in a more attentive work frame of mind. That's not to say he's unresponsive without them because he's not, but they do allow me to get a little more lift & a slightly shorter frame while keeping him soft & relaxed.

[flintybaby]

I'm not saying this to upset anybody so please dont think I am but I absolutely detest spurs! I have NEVER used them and i never will! I have got brilliant results from every single one of my horses but the good old fashioned method of using my legs.

I see it too often when young children forget they are wearing them and sit flapping their legs on the poor ponie's side and it makes me cringe. I went to a show the other week and just about everyone was wearing them - your not telling me that all those horses needed spurs? I think sometimes they are an easy way out for lazy people who dont have a clue how to use them. I think you should have to pass a test and get a certificate to say 'yes I know the dangers of spurs and ive proven I can use them properly'.

Sorry rant over! ***Waits with trepidation for back fire from angry spur wearers*** (I honestly dont mean any nastiness to anyone but spurs is a touchy subject with me!):)

[Ms Kitty]

I know it is probably impossible, but I do agree with you flintybaby, some people really should pass a test before allowing them to use spurs.. :p

I have nothing against spurs, I have used them a lot in the past (at the moment I wouldn't dare to use spurs, but that is because my Polo seat really isn't what it should be.. :p) and I do admit that they give with most horses that extra you need to make them look great. But only for most horses. Some really hate them and refuse to co-operate when using them. Usually sign that you are not using them correctly!

And no, little kids should never be allowed to use spurs if they have no clue what they are doing. The less aids you need in riding, the better rider you are. So use extra aids if you need them (I do too!) but aim to get rid of them! :)

Was that making any sense? I don't think I have properly woken up yet and it is nearly 2pm.. :eek: :p

Nina x

[flintybaby]

Yeah that made sense Nine. Phew someone agrees with me. I agree about using as few extra aids as possible and sometimes its psychological on the rider's part.

i.e. Last week at the show I was on about earlier I asked a lady if I could borrow her whip for a competition where the jumps were 3ft 3. I never normally carry a whip but I had it in my head that if I carried it Flint would jump better?!?!?! I didnt use it but in my head he would go better with this whip.

[Ms Kitty]

Yeah, I carry a whip around just for show sometimes. Horses are very clever, they do know whether you have the whip or not, and it usually is enough to just carry it there so you can use it if you need it. It is psychology for both the horse and the rider, methinks.. ;)

Nina x

[KateWooten]

Well, spurs fans or spurs haters, that's not what this particular thread was about. It's not about in general should kids be allowed to hammer on their ponies' sides in spurs ... it's about one of us, jUmPingIsLifE, who is a very much more experienced and balanced rider than any of these little kids. In answer to that question ...your not telling me that all those horses needed spurs?... no, nobody was telling you anything about those kids, flinty, and that wasn't the topic of discussion.

I think jUmPingIsLifE was more concerned to hear the experiences of people working with horses like hers, and from riders at her level.Kids thumping their ponies' sides is not right, and not at all relevant to jUmPingIsLifE's question, which is all about subtlety and communication with her horse.

[Ms Kitty]

Sorry Kate, we (well at least I) do not know jumpingislife as well as I assume you do (so I have no way of knowing what level she is at), so therefore maybe we went too much for the cautious side of things and off topic with the little kids using spurs wrong (which you have to admit happens a lot).

My first post was answer to her OP though, and I still stand behind it. No need to take offence, even though you are of course right, we digressed from the main post after that. Sorry, jumpingislife!

Nina x

[CurlyWurlyRach]

i wear spurs for flatwork to get my horse listening. she not lazy as such just wont work with the degree of sensativity i want without them.

[ponylover88]

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[jUmPingIsLifE]

thanks for the replies. I think what I may end up doing is warming up and riding him without as I have been doing until I get him going well then during a walk break I will put on some spurs then once he is going again I will apply and see what happens.

Fitness wise it is still a bit early yes. Maybe Im just getting exited because every day he seems SO much stronger and he just has been getting better and better, and fitter. You should see his bucks, they are getting pretty athletic much more then in november!
I Just want to squeeze a little bit more out of him so he can see what it is im asking. He really jumps and goes "AHH HUH" when I say the words good boy so If I could just get a couple good strides It may come easier and easier after that.

Conformation wise he'll never lengthen a great deal, he is a bit straight in his shoulder. But when Im lounging him in the side reins he really shows me he has A LOT more then what he gives under saddle. Even when Im just free lounging he can really power off, extend and carry himself very well.

Its also a pet peeve of mine to see the little kids at shows all wearing spurs on their ponies. I have ridden school horses in spurs before when my trainer has come out and said I need them and puts them on me. I know how to use them properly. I have just never seen a horse weaned off them before, just wanted to know they can be used without become a permanate "crutch".

[Ms Kitty]

Hi jumpingislife! I am sorry if in my ealier posts I went off to a wrong direction from what you were asking. I don't really have a strong mind about using spurs, they are good if you know how to use them, but bad if you don't. But just in case, I usually tend to encourage people not to use them, especially people I don't know. Better safe than sorry, eh? ;)

Just read through some of your older posts to get an idea what sort of level of jumping you are doing, and it seems you are doing about 3 to 4ft? If I am correct I would assume you have steady enough lower leg for you to use spurs, I would be quite surprised if at that level you didn't! :)

I think the whole point of using spurs properly is that there is no need to "ween" the horse off of them. Hence why I only used spurs every now and again, and in such a position (on the boot) that I could regulate the amount of contact I had with them. Didn't have any problems with horses getting dull to the aids this way and got great results.

This said, I think trying spurs is definitely worth a shot with your horse, as I said earlier in my first post. But if your horse is still a bit unfit, I wouldn't be too worried about the extension of the step at this point, if he shows it while lunging, it will eventually come with riding as well. And then spurs might help you get it to show to the level your horses confirmation lets.

On top of your own idea of adding spurs in the middle of training, I think it might also be a good idea if after testing spurs and getting good responses, you limit the use of them to those occasions when you are doing maximum training (almost at the level as you would at competitions or maybe even higher) or to actual competitions, if you are worried you would end up getting too reliant to them.

Would love to see a pic of your horse though.. *hint hint* ;)

Nina x

[Skyhuntress]

And people who don't have a stable enough lower leg (me, for example but I know it, and I don't use them). You'll do fine.


That's it exactly :p Join the club! But hey, at least we know it, right? ;)

Actually though, when we look at dressage horses, spurs should never be used to get a horse FORWARD-that should be from the leg, and if needed, the whip. Spurs are used as a refinement, which is why we are required to use them in competition, ad not whips. They assume already that once you reach a certain level, the horse is responsive off your leg, so you dont need anything to get them moving forward.

If you have a steady leg, you should never have to ween the horse, because you should never be using them regularly enough that he gets used to them.

[coss]

i use spurs on my boy for refinement and to just ask that little extra every now and then. my lower leg is stable enough but he did start leaning on my leg so badly that he was bending into my spur so i stopped using them for a while and he was fine without them but i do find they sometimes help to refine aids. they do have their place and i do think they are worth trying, if you don't constantly use them (as in, you have them on but you don't have them on the horse ;)) then it shouldn't make things worse... saying that i know a horse who is not happy when you have spurs on and he mucks about if you do ;)

[jUmPingIsLifE]

actually its a bit weird. Tahoe is very light and moves off my leg to go sideways easy. when he spooks he is EXPLOSIVE, bucking, jumping SIDEWAYS but when it comes to foward movement he would just rather not. On the ground he is much better and doesn't hesitate to move his feet foward anymore, undersaddle its just not quite there.

[coss]

i would do a lot of long and low work to try and get him to loosen the frame then, explosive bucking and jumping sideways is fun ;)

[mayoguinness]

For myself I would never use spurs. I know there are lots of reasons to use them but I've seen horses that people have said really need spurs to get them to do this and that and then I have seen the people at my yard (all Australian NH people) take them on and training the horse to come off weight and be lighter on the ground,and they get the horse to do what the owner said they could never do without spurs!! To me they just are not needed but then again I would never use a whip or kick a horse and neither would my instructer............................................