De Gouge, Pessoa, Chambons etc.

[Wally]

Anyone use a DeGouge, Chambon, Pessoa?....any other kind of training aid.....Abbot Davies

What do you use it for, and how do you use yours?

Pros and cons, how you feel about them.

[Lgd]

I have a de Gogue, although must admit I rarely use it now. It is useful in teaching a young horse to reach for the contact in a round outline and swing through the back. I always use it with long side reins so horse has a contact to go to.

With the older horses I tend to lunge in vienna reins (as in what the SRS use) rather than side reins. I prefer it as they don't 'fix' the outline in the way side reins do and allow the horse to work up and out as well as down and out without compromising the elasticity of the contact.

[Wally]

How do you attach the Vienna reins? I hear they can be put in all kinds of position to alter the effect.

[Lgd]

between legs and then through bit rings and back to girth at the bottom of the saddle flaps. They are very difficult to find in the UK, mine came from Germany.

[Jessey]

I have side reins - don't like them much, rarey use them except in certain circumstances. I also have used a chambon and DeGouge, both of which seem to have their place for encouraging a nice outline etc. I do have a Pessoa type gig which I was recommended to use by my vet after my boy damaged his stifle to help with back muscle development - I find it OK and he doesn't seem to mind it but I am not emtirely happy using it as my horse bucks alot and I worry he will catch himself in the mouth, I tend to use it for a short time at the end of a session to minimise the risk.
I would rather just get them going forwards and use slopes to get engagement and self carriage - but then I am looking from the point of view of western training mostly, where we don't want the horse to seek the contact etc as in english.

J x

[Wally]

Ahhh, but I can make my own :D


Can you get different effects where you put them up or down a sursingle.

[Mehitabel]

i like chambons for the lunge. i like that there is no 'inward' pressure at all - the horse can go down and forward as much as it likes, and they only have an efect when it hollows and comes back and up. the horse can 'disconnect' at the withers and just stretch the neck, but they don;t generally, they have to be trying quite hard to evade.

i'm less keen on the de gogue apart from horses who know their onions and can carry themselves and not lean on it, and a lunger who can make them carry themselves and not lean on it. i don't like riding in it.

i worry with the pessoa that they are catching themselves in the mouth as they step witht the hind legs, altohugh i've not used one myself so that's jsut a feeling from pictures of how it works.

we have an abbott davies in the yard, i did try to take it out and work out how it went on once and put it back quite quickly.

[chev]

Used to use side reins (elsticated version) for lunging - lunged off the cavesson and used a bridle underneath with teh side reins to give the horse a chance to get used to the feeling of reaching into a contact. Don't use them now. No real reason why... except that I did find they sometimes interfered with the development of balance and self-carriage with some.

Similar experience to Mehitabel with the Abbot Davies. Friend wanted help fitting it. We both discovered in a short space of time that I was absolutely no help whatsoever and gave up. I have no idea how to get the thing on still and having read somewhere that the inventor was killed by a horse objecting violently to its use decided it probably wasn't worth the degree in engineering I'd need to do so.

Don't actually own anything else like that although I have used a chambon in the past and might do so again if I felt the need.

[Skyhuntress]

I've used de gogues and chambons for lunging, and like both of them.
When I lunge it's always WITH something (because I lunge in place of riding occasionally, so I expect the horse to still move with contact on the bit and have impulsion) so I've gone through quite a few things ;)

I tend to like chambons for younger horses just getting into the swing of things, because it allows them to really stretch down and move around.

What I actually DO like right now (probably because I'm lazy) are the elasticised draw reins for more experienced horses. You tie them to the lunging caveson (and if you have a horse that you know refuses to bend to the left, you can shorten that side easily), thread them through the bit, and because they are elasticized, they have quite a bit of give (especially the long ones, so you can choose how muh contact to have), but because of their positioning, they almost mimic a real contact with hands.

[buzzybea]

i have a de gouge and find it very useful exept the clips bounce alot in trot, which is annoying.

argh, this is curlywurlyrach - buzzybea hasnt signed out on my laptop :rolleyes:

[jovi_y2k2]

i use a pessoa when I lunge star i love it, it really helps keep him focused and he goes brilliantly in it. I used it for 2months along with hacking as I couldnt ride him in an arena for various reasons, and when I brought him back to uni and started schooling him myself again i noticed a MASSIVE difference in his way of going, he was so much lighter in my hands and just generally rounder and softer.

[Bling]

I don't like gadgets that force a position, even if it's "correct". Sorry.

[CurlyWurlyRach]

most gadgets dont force, they suggest (when used correctly).

[Rips]

I have a pessoa, don't use it much anymore. Bought it on recommendation from the physio and used it in between visits from the physio and chiro to see if it would help her. Horse took to it like a duck to water.

Used it in short sessions for around 3months, vast improvement in self-carraige and muscle developement (with lots of schooling also)
Only ever used it on the lowest setting to encourage her to use herself, so not trying to force a position at all really.

[Keket]

The chambon seems to get good reviews from most people. There's a woman around here that trains hunters and jumpers (we're talking high level horses that cost $40,000 even before they're trained) and uses it on her young ones off and on to show them what she wants. Use it a couple times, then take it off to see what the horse has learned. My trainer is getting one for her babies (a rising five year and three and a half year old) and I'll probably use it on Topaz once she shows me how.

[Maddison's girl]

we used a pessoa on Maddison for the first time the other day. You could see her mind ticking over when we first put it on. For the first time ever she was a delight to lunge. We have since lunged her without it and again she was great. I also have side reins but only ever used them a couple of time. I would certianly use the pessoa again.

[jUmPingIsLifE]

I use sidereins with Tahoe. Really for the first time this year I decided to use them. I just attatch them pretty loosely and Tahoe carries his head where he feels comfortable and I just keep pushing him foward and asking him to really step under and push off with his hind end and I find he stretches down into them. There is no force, if he wants to bring his head up when he gets tierd he can. I have found it very helpful with him in teaching him to really lengthen his stride and use himself properly and fitten him up making ridden work much easier. He goes quite happily in them.

Cant really comment on any others, I have heard the good and the bad about ALL of them. Who was it on here that mentioned not using ANY gadget that doesn't act as would any of the riders aids. (for example, side reins being done at the girth is no good because 'who rides with their hands that low') I thought that was a really good point though. I still like what I can use the sidereins for though.

[Lgd]

Ahhh, but I can make my own :D


Can you get different effects where you put them up or down a sursingle.

In theory yes, in practice I don't use them at any other position - if it's good enough for the SRS, guess it's good enough for me :D The only time they use them any differently is for the 'airs' when they do attach up to the d-rings.

If you fancy making one the girth attachment is pretty much like a hunter breastplate without the top bit (neckstrap etc) except the loop is buckled to make it easier to get on and off. The reins then divide from the ring and have buckles and keepers to allow adjustment - mine is a WB one but can do detailed measurements for you if you want.

[arnie bean]

i use a pessoa on my young horse about twice a week. i keep it loose and dont work him in it for to long but im covinsed its helping mussle develppment across his top line.

[Wally]

Keep going this is what I want to hear.

Any more with any more????

[chev]

I'd agree that gadgets don't truly mimic the rider's hands; but that can be good or bad.

The one thing some of them do have going for them is that the gadget is consistent throughout a session, where a rider maybe won't be. Sometimes you need a rider rather than a gadget to adapt to a horse through a session; other times, you might need a contact that is just consistent, without the tiredness, frustration, or one-sidedness a rider can bring into the equasion.

It's something I've thought more about recently because I am very one-sided; in some ways, I'd rather use a training aid in schooling that doesn't echo my disabilities just to avoid the horse echoing my problems all the time.

[Wally]

Ldg, if you have any measurements or line srawings I'd be greatful.

I have to become proficient at using the ruddy things in the next 2 years.....but it's so,mething I'd never use on my own gee-ups. So as long as I can bullsh1t my way through and actually fit and adjust the things I should be okay.

[eml]

As you know I am not a gadget fan but we lunge our bigger school horses regularly in a Pessoa to keep up their muscle development and it really helps particularly with the horses ridden by novices and allowed to work sloppily.

I have also been persuaded into the odd use of a Market Harborough to ensure particularly long horses actually use their back muscles even with novice riders

Ours are cheap Ebay/Libbys models.

[joey_olop]

I have lunged in a loose chambon but found it didnt really do anything!! Complete waste of money :D

[drookitsheep]

I have side-reins which I've only used when practising lunging for exams and a pessoa which I prefer, although I don't really lunge very often.

[Maddison's girl]

Ours are cheap Ebay/Libbys models.


Are they just as good eml? I saw them on ebay and was considering getting one, I nearly died in my tack shop today when I saw the price of them £90 ish my poor husband nearly had a heart attack :eek:

[Lucy J]

i can do a pessoa type aid for £35. not home made but from europe. anyhow back to the original question. I never got the concept of the abbot davis rein and I have never used a de gogue or chambon. i have lunged in elasticated side reins without much effect and, on advice of chiropractor, used a pessoa type aid. it does work very well, certainly much better than lunging a horse who hollows to the outside with nothing. although like all these aids it is only as good as the hands it is in. i warm ciara up for 10 minutes each rein before attaching it, and even then it is set only to come into use if she hollows completely. a few times i have tried to push her further than she is capable and the result is a horse who is upset and bucks for britain.

i reckon lunging with a loosely fitted pessoa is of more benefit than lunging with just a cavesson or headcollar.

[Skye08]

I personally like the pessoa, but i think people have gone pessoa mad and nearly everyone i know either has one or wants one. I think the settings on it are fab for the individual horse and it does if used on a regular basis improve the horses way of going. Ive seen it used a numerous amount of time and i quite like the improvements i have seen.

Im not too fussed on the chambon and the harbridge i must admit i didnt see any BIG improvements to the horses movements at all however the chambon on the horse i watched being lunged was FAR too big in the first place so it really didnt have much effect on the horse in the first place.