An incurable phobia

[Tootsie4U]

My horse has a major phobia of doors. I think it has something to do with the fact that he doesnt know whats going to come through the other side.

I've tried everything - from ignoring the door to spending a good bit of time before each ride 'exploring' the door. I've tried every NH method suggested to me but he still has this paranoia about passing a door.

I've become a moderately confident rider and have learnt how to get him past the door while under saddle. But I really wish I could find a way to just cure him of his fear.

Im open to any suggestions or if someone wants to share how they cured their horse of a seemingly incurable phobia, that'd be great too!

[cvb]

Tootsie

which one, and what does he do ? Is there anything else where you get something similar - that it might be claustrophobia ?

(Plus isn't he somewhere new now ?)

We have a Fell pony who worries quite a lot - he wil always take a look at things. One of the keys is that he knows I will let him take a look and not force him forward. He's not allowed to step back - but he is allowed to just take a moment to take a look. But he also worries about small gaps... and you pretty much have to "reset" this every time you do something.

As an example - bloks in the school. He will worry about going between them and the school fence. You can work him around them and he will become ok. But if you are not in there for a few days, you have to start over again. You really do have to repeat repeat repeat with him. He doesn't really get enough work these days to repeat everything often enough - so I just have to assume I need to take the time it takes.

Mum just got a new mounting block for the school - which is bright blue plastic and looks a bit like a block :rolleyes:

First time with Duds - I put it in the middle of the school and took plenty of time with him. Then he didn't get ridden for a couple of weeks cos of the weather. Rode him again this weekend and it wasn't quite back to square one - but if I have tried to rush him, it would have been. I know him well enough that I just took 10 minutes at the start to just work on the mounting block.

Not trying to say you rush your chap - just that Duds really does take about twice as long as you think - so take that first thought and double it ;)

[Pink's lady]

Sometimes horses can have irrational fears about silly things and it's jut not workable. Because it's not a rational fear you can't work through it in a rational way.

Brodie is terrifed of poles and stepping over them. Even being asked to step over a single pole, flat on the ground, will send him into a blind panic. It never gets any better even with lots of practise. In fact I seems to get worse as you go along.

I've spent years trying and loads of different methods and even though he would follow me to the ends of the earth we've not managed to sort it. He will step over one if I ask him to but in a complete panic and at top speed and everytime I do so his trust in me drops - he doesn't see it as 'me showing him that it's not scary and won't hurt him' but instead 'I trusted you and now you want me to do something truely terrifying!':(

So I've given up - he doesn't have to do it if he doesn't want to.

[Tootsie4U]

It is a new place, but this behavior is common with all indoor places that have a door.

1) At the minimum, he'll trot past it with his head bent out to watch the door as it goes by.

2) If Im not riding proactively and we go by, he'll shy at it everytime.

3) At the maximum, he'll dive clear away from the door.

On the lunge, in hand, or in the saddle.

Today, we were riding in the new indoor. We were in there about an hour and fifteen minutes. The first fifteen minutes were on the lunge and he was doing #1 and #2 each time around. I was asking for his attention and cooperation which I believed kept him from doing #3 each time around.

I rode him for 45 mins, mostly walk and trot, and he did very good with just a slight bend of his head to watch the door. Only slight because I was really using my weight and seat aids to keep him straight.

On our cool down, another rider brought their horse in to groom. The groom area is immediately on the other side of this scary door. The door was closed but he could see the riders feet, horses feet and the dogs feet under the door and he completely climbed the wall. I didnt even know they were there until after he took off with me. I didnt get afraid and just kept him going. He was obeying each thing I asked of him (TOF, TOH, leg yields - which I was doing to distract him to no benefit!!!) but his mind was completely on the other side of the door.

THat is where the NH stuff fails me. He is listening to my requests no matter what they are but his mind isnt completely with me.

Whatcha thinkin?

[Tootsie4U]

I could deal with just tossing it up to something I just have to accept but its a bit hard to give up on his phobia's of doors when wherever we go, there's going to be a door!

[julia gulia]

Tootsie? I have a couple of questions...will he himself walk through the door? If you bring him from the grooming area...are you then able to get him to walk through it? And if the door is left open while you are working in the ring will he still react the same way? I'm just trying to figure out what it is exactly about the door that scares him .What are the doors made of? Does he spook at certain doors more than others? Do the doors make any sound? Do any other things scare him? Sorry...that was more than a couple of questions:D

[cvb]

Tootsie

when he reacted - it sounds like he went right brained on you. So even though physically he was staying with you, mentally he was in a different place ?

If so, then I think this is about giving them a way to get out of RB ? or at least that might help ?

with horses like this (like Fi as well) there are always going to be times they go RB, but it seems to be working with Fi to give her a way to handle that ?

I haven't hacked her out for ages - but I have led her out. Any time she starts heading towards RB, I give her a task to do that will engage her LB.

This is echoed in what we are doing in the school. A non-NH RI said "she has to stayed focused even if WW3 is kicking off" - and that is down to *me*...

There was a conversation on another thread about different ways to deal with spooks - I manage Fi different to Dudley for example. She has to be focused, he needs time to look-see. I must NOT give Fi look-see time. Someone posted a really good analysis of this - I can't stick around right now to find it but will take a look later (I'm at work ;) ).

Another example - the fell pony Duds always used to shy at "wavey cabbages" in one corner of the school. Yet the same corner was their favourite corner for sun bathing ! it is partly about the risk profile being different when they are under saddle with a rider - but it was also about telling him it was not something that would be accepted... he's a lot better about that now (even if we still have the "small gaps" thing going on).

[Afellpony]

CVB my Fell also looks at things and worries about them. It must be a Fell pony thing. He's very suspicious about new things. Well, he's suspicious about everything really.

[Tootsie4U]

Tootsie? I have a couple of questions...will he himself walk through the door? If you bring him from the grooming area...are you then able to get him to walk through it? And if the door is left open while you are working in the ring will he still react the same way?

Yes. To all that.

Its not the door, IMO, its his uncertainty of what could be coming through it at any given time and take him off guard.

100% true cvb. He's going RB on me and its hard to try to find a way to get him LB again when he's doing everything I physically ask.


You said 'A non-NH RI said "she has to stayed focused even if WW3 is kicking off" - and that is down to *me*..." And that I agree on, but it still doesnt settle his fear of the door completely. Like I said, I can really ride proactively when he's like this and it does help him, but his attention is still partially on the door, at the best of times.

[cvb]

CVB my Fell also looks at things and worries about them. It must be a Fell pony thing. He's very suspicious about new things. Well, he's suspicious about everything really.

:D our fell shies *when things go away* :rolleyes: i.e. at the gap they left behind... we figure he thinks they may simply be hiding from him :p

but his attention is still partially on the door, at the best of times.

I meant to say - the door will represent a higher threat area to him. That's why he is on alert. Even though the door is always there, the threat behind it is always unknown !

Our arena is next to a vegetable patch. There was a wind thingie up there. Fi *never* got used to it and I just took to taking it down before any session. It was the activity - when it whirred - rather than it simply being there. In one of Mark R's books he comments about a horse shying at a rabbit it had seen on the way out - that the problem is often ordinary everyday objects doing unexpected things

The door is ordinary and every day. What is behind it is unexpected.

I suspect the Mark R approach would be to accept that and work on redirecting the energy ? This is a tactic that has served me well with Fi and fits with the whole focus thing.

You say "He's going RB on me and its hard to try to find a way to get him LB again when he's doing everything I physically ask. "

Perhaps you need a set of things you know you can ask him that will help him find his way out of RB and back to LB ? I'm lucky that simply turns tend to work with Fi.... that lateral flexion helps slightly disengage, slightly refocus, and also there is the whole thing about lateral flexion and lowering the head releasing endorphines etc etc

[puzzles]

. . . but then again, we all have fears which, in truth, are irrational - heights, spiders, enclosed spaces, air, wind, water, clowns, you know - all sorts of dangerous things like them (ahem) . . . the list goes on.

please have a look at my answer the the "Napping............." post in this area - the same applies here.

many horses are the same with puddles - that is why they fear them, because for all they know there isn't a surface at all underneath, especially with the distorting refelction and all . . . yet they can get over their fears.

[becky1sim]

Hi there I think I maybe able to help you with this problem as I have come across quite alot of horses not liking small spaces/doors etc... I used to work in racing and with problem horses and one of my many things was curing horses of these types of phobias. Firstly you need to put a rug over you horse before you try to get him into his stable as he obviously has issues with not hitting his hips/hind quaters!! The best types of rugs are wollen/cooler material type exercise rugs not waterproof rugs as they are too noisy and put a roller on. Your horse has obviously knocked his back end walking into the stable probably long before you got him but has never forgotten what happened and everytime he sees a door he associates pain with it. By playing a rug over his vunerable area he will feel much more confidant and that is why you may of seen race horses having a type of rug that gets put on them if they are not good in the stalls as they will go happily in when their back end is covered. Keep your horse very straight when walking into the stable and walking out and I promise is phobia will go.
I'll keep an eye on your thread to help you along if you need some more help on how to handle the problem with your horse.
Good luck you can do it Becky :)

P.S Reward him with a little treat everytime he progresses forward even a little bit and he will so see his stable as a yummy place to go into!! ;)

[cvb]

becky

so how can Tootsie translate this into her problem with indoor school doors when riding ?

[Afellpony]

When you think about it though, horses' 'phobias' such wind, dogs etc are not that irrational. We live in modern times but a horse's instinct is still way back centuries ago. If you think about it, asking a horse to enter a confined space, such as a horsebox, stable etc in his/her mind means it could be the death of them. Their primitive mind tells them there could be a puma lurking in that confined space and if it attacks, they wont be able to get out and the beast will kill them. If they're spooky in the high wind, it's because the noise of the wind makes it hard for them to hear other sounds around them which may/may not be threatening. Phobias nearly always occur because something as happened in their past and they are usually very hard to overcome.

[becky1sim]

Right here goes i'll try and help sort each problem out now i've re read everything again sorry about that! Firstly with the riding past doors and stopping horses shying isn't easy as even the most bomb proof of horses with have a look a things that appear out of the blue and things like feet showing under doors and the shadows they cast etc.. It's in a horses natural instinct to flew from the unknown and all horses will hold onto that no matter how well trained and responsive after all they are flight animals and used to rely on it to stay alive. A horse will always be fine with things he/she can she see that make noises, they can addentify them and not just some random noise with no form. Horses need to see what is there it is the unknown/half seeing and random appearance that always kicks off their flight reactions.
The way to give your horse the confidance to go past doors and everything else without shying is to be ultra confidant which will then pass down to your horse. Don't be in a hurry to go close to the door to start with just work to half the arena distance away from the door and do all your exercises there and lots of leg yields in and out on 10/20metre circles to get your horse listening to you. Listen for your horse making gentle and relaxed blowing from his nose(ha!ha!) and at that point he is showing you that he is relaxed,happy and listening. When you reach that point slowly increase your circle so that the distance between yourself and the door/object in question, becomes closer. Everytime you increase your circle you must only do so when your horse is making his relaxed noises and feels happy and relaxed, by doing it this way and keeping up with the leg yielding onto the bigger area your horse will be going past the door no problem. Shoulder-in is always great when going past things that have the look of monsters. One more thing when coming to go past the door from the other way you may well have to do the whole exercise again as horses see things as if they haven't been past it in their life before when you change direction and approach from a different angle it's just how things come across in a horses mind so be ready for it, good luck I know you can do it!! :)
Now with your horse not going over poles the same type of thing applies. Work your horse on the lunge in just a bridle and put out one pole, warm your horse up a little just in walk with a little bit of trot and wait for him to start to drop his head. Do lots of transitions halt/walk, walk/trot, trot/walk, halt/trot and different speeds in walk and trot until your horse is totally focased on you, he will then start licking and chewing. Slowly move towards the pole and slowly increase your circle till your your nearly going over the pole, if at any time your horse gets a bit untight take him on a circle a bit further away from the pole till he gets his confidance remember slowly slowly. When your horse is happy to go past the pole nearly touching it at that point get him to go over the very very end of it. It doesn't matter if he only just about goes over it or touches it the fact he has tried is what matters, make a big fuss of him. Now do it again with him and everytime go over the pole a little high each time and he will be going over it in no time and full of confidance by the end. I did it this way with my youngest horse going over big plastic sheeting and by the end of 30 mins I was riding him straight over the middle of it without him batting an eye lid and he is a very highly strung horse. Remember lots of praise and reward for every little bit of progress he does and he will feel so proud of himself and on top of the world as will you. Again good luck and post back on here if things aren't working and I see what other tips I can offer :p
Please post to let us know how you get on though, Becky X :D

[Tootsie4U]

One of the many things I have tried is the circle getting larger trick. Advance and retreat fashion. Doesnt help.

Im all for just accepting this as one of his quirks, but I can't take down a barn door on a whim :D Its a little heavy :D

I have a plan. Its something I've not stuck with consistently before and is probably my last option as I've pretty much exhausted all others. I'll grab mane and ride him to the door, through the door if I have to, and ask for assistants to open and come through the door at random. Maybe if he figures out for himself that the door isnt a gate to monster world, he'll settle around them.

[julia gulia]

Tootsie? have you ever done any spook in place exercises with him?
He is afraid of the unknown behind the door....that may never change but perhaps you could teach him how to react when he is scared. This may decrease his anxiety.
Teach it from the ground and then in the saddle. You will need a couple of people to help you with it but it could help him to cope with his fear.

[Harry Hobbes]

At this point, I'd probably saddle him up, loosen him up with about ten minutes of riding, and then walk over to the doorway (mounted) and ask him to just stand there on a loose rein. I'd point him directly at the doorway so he can just watch it, and I'd drop the rein (i.e., go "on the buckle"). Maybe I'd walk him right up to the doorway and stand right there. (This depends on how much room there is; I'd want to be close, but with enough room where he wouldn't get hung up trying to turn around if he felt he had to get out of there.)

I'd just sit in the saddle and relax; I'd do nothing but wait for him to relax (and pet him occasionally only when he's calm). I wouldn't care where he looked, if he snorted, or if he got scared. I wouldn't overtly react if he jumped. I'd just sit there quietly.

I wouldn't ask anyone to do anything for me (such as go in or out the door), but would just allow normal activity to progress. We'd just stand there and observe.

I wouldn't have much to say to him, would probably say nothing, and I'd be sitting very still and relaxed, as I'd want him to start wondering what I'm doing up there; hence eventually bringing his attention back to me (but on his own initiative).

If anyone came over and wanted to chat, I'd just go right ahead and chat away, all the time having my horse stand there in one place.

I wouldn't ask him to do anything except stand there. I wouldn't expect him not to be afraid; but I would correct him if he had to move away: If he moves off or turned to leave, I'd pick up the (ONE) rein he's turning into, and turn him 360 degrees until he's standing looking into the doorway again. I'd stop him there and again sit very still and quiet on a loose rein.

Throughout all of this, I'd be so relaxed that I'd almost be sleeping in the saddle; or perhaps meditating. Just watching the world go by.

I'd do this for an hour. (Two hours would be better.) I'd do this several "rides" in a row. I wouldn't be concerned about quitting "on a good note;" rather, I'd set a time goal, and we'd quit when we reached that time (such as EXACTLY one hour - but I wouldn't be "watching the clock"). I'd do this at many different places - spooky places or otherwise.

A high level of fear is typical of very sensitive horses such as Bonfire and Missy. Like you, I've had to work through some serious spooking with Missy. (And always will: She has Dash For Cash, Native Dancer and Easy Jet in her genes, and although she was range-raised, she has a well-developed sense of survival.)

Although the maneuvers you've tried helped Missy immensely in terms of influencing her movements when she goes "right brained," she knows the routine by rote and we got to the point of diminishing returns; just like with you and Bonfire. So it became beneficial to just let her stand and watch whatever got her attention.

You should have seen her go bananas over the herd of tumbleweed "galloping" across the prairie on a ride during a Montana wind storm last Fall. We stood and she watched that unending herd of galloping tumbleweed for a very long time before she decided that she wasn't under attack. Some of them actually came after her (and under her). All of the basic "put them to work" maneuvers did not help her that day. Standing and watching did. (If I take the time it takes, she eventually loses interest in her problem and decides it's okay to "move on.")

We do a lot of standing and watching on a loose rein. Or standing while I chat with the neighbors over the fence. One can never do too much standing still and relaxing; whether out on the range overlooking the herd, or just watching the scenery.

There's a principle at work here: It is based on the reality that the horse will sense the state of the rider. They are very attuned to excitement/anxiety/nervous level of their alpha. For example, if you review that "In a Whisper" VCR tape you received a couple of years ago, you may notice that Parelli's horse tries to buck while Pat was trying to ride the colt forward. Pat's reaction to the attempt was to roll his head/shoulders to loosen himself up. This was not some theatrical ploy to entertain the marks; rather, it was a calculated move by a very experienced horseman to lower the pressure on the colt, and thereby circumvent the buck. He did not take direct action on the colt - he took direct action on himself which indirectly lowered the pressure on the colt.

This is why I practice "going calm (or loose)" when the flag flies.

You may want to try this change with Bonfire. The unexpected will get him focused back on you; wondering what you'll do next.

Best regards,

Harry

[Montana]

1) At the minimum, he'll trot past it with his head bent out to watch the door as it goes by.

2) If Im not riding proactively and we go by, he'll shy at it everytime.

3) At the maximum, he'll dive clear away from the door.

I rode him for 45 mins, mostly walk and trot, and he did very good with just a slight bend of his head to watch the door. Only slight because I was really using my weight and seat aids to keep him straight.

Hi Tootsie,

I like Harry's stand and relax. When all hell breaks loose when we're on the move, I can stop and have him do nothing at least! Crazy that when's it's established, it just stays there. But it doesn't neccessarily translate into when we're on the move - that's when things get complicated for me too.

This whole description rang so many bells it really could have been me you were talking about:)

I rode at a clinic with Mark Rashid last November, and dealt with a lot of these issues. Monty has problems not only with doors, but also with the walls of an arena (or hedgerows along roads, and when gates appear/driveways suddenly opening as we ride along). All of this stuff could cause major spooks.:rolleyes:


We worked primarily along the short edge of the arena, where the crowd was sitting. I'd been having real trouble riding along that side, as he was obviously seriously concerned about the people, bags, sound system, chairs etc, etc.

Mark talked it through with me, and gave me a real lightbulb moment. He said the last thing we could approach it as was a training issue. This reaction was on a primitive, survival level, and had everything to do with the way horses are designed. Firstly, physically he needed to process the information about the crowd with both sides of his brain. And he couldn't do that if he was only looking at them with one eye. So he had to turn his head. While his head was turned towards the crowd, he was reasonably happy to get close to the side of the arena. He could process what was happening with depth of vision.

What he couldn't do was to get close to the crowd, and travel straight. Mark explained that this is where most arguments between horse and rider would start, as the rider fought a losing battle to keep the horse on that line and looking forward. You might acheive it, but every time you do it, you'll have to keep working hard to keep straight.

It happens to me out on the road. If I don't allow him to keep his head turned to the outside, he drifts away from the walls/hedges into the road, and I have to make a correction. This can keep going the whole time we're out - I liken it to the tracking on my car being out. I'm constantly applying neck rein/leg pressure to keep him by the hedge.

So Mark had me work on finding out where he was comfortable enough to go straight along the edge without turning his head to them. We figured out his distance from the wall needed to be about 6-8 feet before he could just travel in a straight line, without the need to turn his head.

Then we worked in a kind of advance/reatreat manner. Not by trying to get progressively closer (ie expanding the circle), but by working towards then away from the edge in a serpentine movement. So we'd start 20 feet out and jog directly towards the crowd then turn as we reached the 8 foot comfort zone, turn and jog away, turn back and jog towards, turn away etc. As we worked (must have been for 5 -10 mins), we were also focusing on other things, so it wasn't just the crowd thing we were doing, but also my breathing, getting nice soft turns in time with his feet and so on. So we both started to focus less on the 'problem' area.

We then gradually asked Monty to work the turn inside the 'danger zone', so we'd cross the 8 foot line (Mark actually drew it in the sand), and then turn. The first couple of times, he'd get in there, but turn quickly, and speed back out:p So we continued to work on the quality of the turns, smoothing them out (asking for the turn as the inside foreleg came off the ground). Gradually, we worked closer to the crowd and the turn became less hurried and the jog more regular paced. Then we started to ask for longer, wider turns, so we were doing a little travelling along the wall.

Finally Mark had me take him in at one end of the wall, then travel along it half way and turn out. He stayed soft and straight.



On our cool down, another rider brought their horse in to groom. The groom area is immediately on the other side of this scary door. The door was closed but he could see the riders feet, horses feet and the dogs feet under the door and he completely climbed the wall.

THat is where the NH stuff fails me. He is listening to my requests no matter what they are but his mind isnt completely with me.



There was a similar issue for a couple of the riders in the next clinic which I audited. There was an office next door to the arena, which had a long window into the arena at one corner. They had curtains drawn, but these were not full length, so every once in a while, you'd see someone walk past the window. Except you could only see their torso as the heads were blocked by the curtains, and it was on a lower lever than the arena, so you couldn't see their legs either. This caused a lot of worry to a couple of the horses.
Mark made me laugh when he explained that of course it did - these horses had never seen a 3rd of a person walking by before:D He just had the people work away from the window....Eventually, you could see that it became less of a problem, and as the riders focused on other things, they'd often end up working closer to it than they'd planned.

Kathleen talks about focus in her book, there's a story about a rider at a clinic whose horse spooked at some rubber matting at the edge of the arena having already been past them for 15 minutes without worry. The spooking then happens each time they go past, and the rider finally says 'I can't stop thinking about those mats!' Kathleen explains that she had noticed the rider looking at the mats since the session started. The horse had paid no attention to the mats initially, but as they'd gone on, the horse gradually became more aware of the rider's focus on the mats which drew his own attention to them. Kathleen says "With both of them focussed on the mats, there wasn't anyone focussed on the work in hand, and the horse spooked". By consciously taking the rider's attention back away from the mats, the problem was resolved.

I'm not saying this is what you're doing:) But I do know that even when I'm consciously trying not to focus on the what ifs, that's exactly what I do. It's like me saying 'Don't picture a pink elephant' - What's the first image that comes to mind!

Whereas if you concentrate on the other things you're working on, rather than on keeping him close to the door and straight and not spooking and not turning his head and riding proactively and using weight and seat aids.......:) I'm as gulity as the next person of doing these things, which is really annoying when logically I understand it. Sometimes less is more. But what I try to now do is not get distracted by things like this - I'm working on whatever it is I've chosen to work on that day (making a plan always helps me to stay focused), and not on whatever other dramas my horse tries to draw me into. If I don't allow them to get to be an issue for me, quite often they stop being an issue for him too.

Phew - sorry for the epic:p Hope it helps :) And when are we going to get to see some more photos of the lovely Bonfire? Haven't seen any for years:p
ETA - Have just seen the video in cafe - What a lovely little horse he is!

[cvb]

Tootsie

we had the nicest morning of the year so far today - sunny, not too windy... and we had a local guy putting a gate in the fence between our top paddock and the beggie patch next to the school. Chain saw, drill, hammering....:rolleyes:

Fi has an incurable phobia for *life* I think :cool:

Seriously - I am sure there is something with her sight that means a bright day stops her seeing as clearly and she therefore goes into "hyperalert" mode. I decided to do my preflight work to check her state of mind - state of mind is something that seemed to come up quite a lot at the Mark R clinics at the end of the year. Stupidly I decided I would try long reining her "Richard Maxwell" style - big mistake :rolleyes: In the first rein she nearly offered me piaffe, and I turned her to the other rein and she just freaked when the outside rein toucher her hind legs - this despite me having down quite a lot of work on this issue - but the stupid bit is I hadn't done it *today* and clearly today it was an issue. Cue horse careering round the school at falt out gallop with two lines "chasing" her :eek:

Anyway, I *did* get on once I had resettled her. Worked only at the "safe" end of the school and looked for that good state of mind reappearing. Then quit when I got it.

I really can heartily endorse what Montana says...

[caj]

have you tried putting her feed near the door and letting her eat it so she gets to associate the door with something nice we had the same problem with a scary corner of our school but after a few sessions of moving the feed nearer and nearer to it he actually trotted over to there of his own will now goes near it under saddle or in hand or on his own! same principle for getting a horse to box just a suggestion different things work for different horses.good luck.

[Tootsie4U]

Harry, Montana; Now THAT is what I was hoping for when I decided to ask for advise! Thanks so much!

I would correct him if he had to move away: If he moves off or turned to leave, I'd pick up the (ONE) rein he's turning into, and turn him 360 degrees until he's standing looking into the doorway again. I'd stop him there and again sit very still and quiet on a loose rein.


Is it significant to do just that? The reason Im asking is that I used to turn him 360 in the direction he shied as a correction but after I had two riding instructors inform me that I was just giving into his need to run away from what was scaring him, I've been turning him the opposite direction of which he shies (not always a circle, just back to the track in most cases). It has been a better option because Im sort of telling him "no boy, get back over there. There's nothing to worry about. Go the way I asked you to go." He's responded better to that.

Montana, I know what you're saying about the whole 'rider focus becomes horses' focus" (and what a neat story that was about the mats!), but I really have been preventing myself from focusing on the door. That said, I am quite guilty of "expecting" the worse and riding him accordingly (read strongly) in preperation for the shy. You're right, that I should stop.

I have a plan now. Thanks to you all. I really appreciate the help thinking this through. I find it a tad interesting that the conventional approaches to napping dont apply here and that I needed to think out of the box this time. I certainly need more practice at that too! :D



BTW, the tumbleweed thingy made me laugh! :D


And, because you asked, I here to please :D http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i25/Tootsie4U/_20070202_0012.jpg

[Harry Hobbes]

Is it significant to do just that? The reason Im asking is that I used to turn him 360 in the direction he shied as a correction but after I had two riding instructors inform me that I was just giving into his need to run away from what was scaring him, I've been turning him the opposite direction of which he shies (not always a circle, just back to the track in most cases). It has been a better option because Im sort of telling him "no boy, get back over there. There's nothing to worry about. Go the way I asked you to go." He's responded better to that.If turning him back the other direction works, then continue it.

But for this stand and look exercie, I always continue their turn the same direction because:

1. They have (both physical and emotional) momentum and there is less applied pressure to just continue the turn through to 360 degrees, than to stop it at 90 or 180 degrees and turn back the other way. Remember, throughout the entire sequence in the post above, we're in a standing position and I'm keeping the pressure at absolute minimum. Going fully around is easier (on the horse physically and emotionally) than stopping and turning back.

2. The fearful thing disappears behind them and they pick it up in their leading eye. (The eye on the inside of the turn.) This in effect is the mounted version of a ground work exercise known as Changing Eyes (a la Buck Brannaman), which is used to train the horse to handle things disappearing and reappearing from behind.

3. In effect, I'm going with her; telling her "okay, let's leave." That is, I'm "...just giving into his need to run away from what was scaring him;" not denying this basic need. In fact, I'm denying her very little and therefore not setting up for a fight. If she needs to leave, I say "okay leave," and we leave until she's back facing the problem. I just make sure that I go with her to 360 degrees (which is easy for both of us) so that she always comes back to face the problem. I didn't intervene except to have her leave a little further (in arc) than she wanted to go.

The other thing to think about is that in one hour, we may do fifty, a hundred, or more 360 degree turns. But that's okay as by sticking with it, I'm "out-patiencing" the horse. (Although no horse I've ridden ever had to do more than about two dozen before it settled down, accepted that we're going to come back there, and decided to stand still.)

Throughout all of this, I'm only suggesting that we stand here and watch <whatever>, until she decides that she'll just stand there and watch; at which time, my idea became her idea.
BTW, the tumbleweed thingy made me laugh! :DI found it pretty funny at the time also. Missy was on Red Alert.

Best regards,
Harry