Am I rewarding bad behaviour?

[Vicki&Milo]

Will try to make this quick.

Milos take on napping is spinning for home (or just in circles gerneally-we got a canter pirroutte out of him the other day :rolleyes:)

We've been doing some long reining and we're getting there, with some short rides too, and there are times now when I can ride him out of them, and others when I really can't.....so I get off, right there. I leda him past that point (its always the same point, although nothing bads ever happened there :confused: ) then get back on and carry on. Am I inadvertently actually rewarding his bad behaviour. The only other option is turning home and giving in for another day.

Vicki xx

[teabiscuit]

could you just sit there and wait him out or is it too dangerous?

as soon as he moved one step beyond the sticking point i'd turn round and head for home as reward

[Vicki&Milo]

could you just sit there and wait him out or is it too dangerous?

as soon as he moved one step beyond the sticking point i'd turn round and head for home as reward

I tried that, just sitting calmly and waiting, but he will not even stand facing the way you want him to go when he's on one, and as soon as you try and make him move he goes backwards/spins. You can actually end up several metres further back than you started just by trying to make him walk on. He will lead past it if you get off, but if anyone tries to lead him while you're riding he goes for them.

Vicki

[teabiscuit]

and if you don't ask him to move forward and just sit there like you have all day, until he wonders what's going on, is it safe to do that?

bore the pants off him in other words

in fact, i'd stay there, nice and quiet, until i felt him wanting to move and i'd stop him, until he was really keen to go forward - then i'd ask him to walk forward one step-then "good boy" and go home

but only any good if he stands there safely while you wait him out-without asking him to go forward until you feel that he wants to

and if you have the time-make sure you give yourself the whole day if you have to.

and i'd repeat this all week or more, until he was sick up to the back teeth of it

[H & Bailey]

how about reversing him past the point?if he wants to spin make him go backwards. if this impossible on the piece of road i feel if its safer by getting off sometimes its best.you would only be ewarding him if you let him go home and not go past this point.

[Skyhuntress]

Have you tried hacking out with someone else to accompany you?
Sometimes they really need another horse to tell them its ok and that the dreaded Bush Gnome won't pop out at them and eat them

[Vicki&Milo]

We were hacking out alone, he was traffic shy, but we were dealing with that, even doing really long 2 hour hacks, then one day he spun when he spooked at something. We stopped, looked at it, and made him walk past (so he never got ANYTHING out of it), from then on he started doing it anywhere, for no reason until he got too dangerous to ride anywhere near a road. The one day he just refused to leave the yard spinning, running sideways, more spinning (faster and faster and faster until you let him face home).

We found he couldn't do this with the long reins and I was long reining him. Now I'm long reining 2 times a week and riding 2 times a week (weather/time permitting) just short hacks in walk. There is one person who we have ridden with before, he was fine with this, but said horse now has foot problem and is one 2 weeks absolute box rest :rolleyes:.

He usually is very good with people on the gorund (due to being left to play with a lad in the field as a baby) and before when he was spoked and refused to go forward my OH has been able to give him a lead on foot, but when he's in one of these fits he'll really go for him-teeth, head anything he can get.

Vicki xx

[Ptaty70]

I think that the 'boring the pants' off him is a great idea, i.e. that you will not give up, but this can take all day as mentioned. I think that in the meantime getting off and leading past is still fine (although this used to be seen as a sign of defeat in the horsey world, i.e. bully your horse past things and never get off). At least you are making him go past the 'scarey monster' (even if it is in his head!!!). Taking him home cos he won't past and because you don't have all day to ask him to is not a good option as that is more likely to teach him that he can get away with it.

I would carry on leading past if necessary, but always just try for a few steps. The minute you get just one, pressure off and maybe then get off and walk past. A mixture of a few methods could be the best way.

Good luck. Seems like you have a lot of patience in any case, so it should sort itself out!

[martini55]

I personally don't see a problem in it if he only does it the once. If he keeps doing it then you don't really want to be getting on and off all the time. To me it just sounds as though you need to build his confidence up again and if getting off and leading him helps acheive this and keeps everything calm and happy then that's fine in my book.

[neen]

He's just a youngster, your Milo, isn't he?

While your hacking buddy is laid up, I'd be tempted to keep on leading him past the scary bit, rather than forcing the issue just now. The "sitting and waiting" thing doesn't always work (Maybe I just didn't wait long enough when I tried it!) and my feeling is that by prolonging the whole experience it maybe gives it more importance that it merits. If you can deal with it quickly and with no fuss by leading him past, why not do that in the short term? In the long term you have your long-reining and your hacking in company to help as well. If it doesn't sort itself out in time, then you can try a more direct approach. I like Ptaty's idea of the mix of methods as well, so you keep on giving him the opportunity to move forward with you on him.

I don't think he's getting much of a reward if you get off and then get back on again after a couple of minutes. Not enough to raise a fuss for, anyway.

[mayoguinness]

Maybe you need to do some ground games with him to help him build up respect and trust in you, could help alot with this problem. I recomend Natural Horsemanship:)

[Vicki&Milo]

Maybe you need to do some ground games with him to help him build up respect and trust in you, could help alot with this problem. I recomend Natural Horsemanship

Thanks mayo, its something that I'd really like to try, but we don't have anywhere I can, hence all the hacking-although it has its perks. I'm hopinh we should be able to use a corner of the field in the summer and try some then.

But now, for THE most exciting news............

On Saturday, me and the OH planned to do nothing all day, except take the trouble maker out. We spent ages grooming and playing with him (bribery if you will) and put a leadrope onto his bit just in case OH needed to lead him, but so he had something decent to get hold of. I hoped this would mean we could get him past with me on top, even if I just sat there passively.

We got to the bogey point (its a little car park with three paths leading off), he nearly follwoed OH past without a fuss, but at the last minute he decided he was having none of it, spun on his haunches and started performing.....we stopped....still (something I'd tried just to regain control before)......and we waited......and waited. The I turned him the way and wanted to go and he walked on :eek: , I really thought we'd cracked it, the waiting game worked...but no :p he took three steps forward and tried it again. We played this game for a while :rolleyes: :o I was having one last go before I asked OH to grab the lead rope, then a familyof walkers went passed, all terrified by this prancing ponio......and he just walked on, following them :eek: (I told you he likes following people on the gorund.)

We got right to the end of the lane and went to go down the bridlepath through the woods-having lead him past the car park this is his next bogey point he WILL NOT ride past and he just walked down it. :D

He was bubbling by this point, really excited and despite telling myself we were going to take it all very slowly for a long time and not rush anything, I just could not resist letting him take off up the hill (mainly chasing my OH who also had far too much energy having cycled 4 miles uphill to get there)

We basically jogged the rest of the way, part of me knew I shouldn't, but I wanted him to really enjoy it, to remember why he used to like coming out-that and the fact that OH was really winding him up!:rolleyes:

I even took him for a canter by himself (with many added excited bucks), he really enjoyed himself, bless.

On the way home I decided I was going to make him turn away from home at the bogey point whilst I had some support on the ground (I only get this once a week so I had to amke the most of it), but I didn't need it, he just turned round and walked back. :D

I have never been so proud-of him and myself-(although I think some credit is due here too ;) )

Thanks so much, and sorry this is so long, but I am still really giddy :D

Vicki xx

[puzzles]

yay! good luck, you sound as though you're going to go far on this.
ps - give M a big kiss for me!
;-)

[Vicki&Milo]

And today we did it alone :D :D

I am beside myself excitement, we played the waiting game, it seems to be a winner, so a HUGE thanks for that one, (and we might have snuck a lead of a walker and her dog...from a distance, at one point) but it worked and we did it.

Bring on the summer! :)

Vicki xx

[teabiscuit]

good to hear of your fantastic progress :D well done

[Vicki&Milo]

It has been a really amazing exerpeince for me. I re-backed my old loan horse at 16 and pushed to to hard to soon and I ended up in A+E and he ended up sold by his owners.

When Milo started playing up I thought I'd done it again, it had all been going so well before. I felt like a real failure and felt that everyone at the yard was asking 'why has she let her some to ride Milo, she's awful?'
This has really restored my confidence and to top it all the YO asked me if I would mind riding her old, little welshie as he's starting playing the kids up.

Vicki xx

[EnduranceAli]

Well done :) Hope you continue to enjoy hacking out. Frayne is nappy when ridden out - I spend most of my time getting off and walking with her. However, we have moved her back to our farm and I will be able to use my neighbour's sand school and there are other neighbours to hack out with. I am hoping that with ridden schooling, hacking partners and lots of time/patience, she will improve and become the 'happy hacker' I want her to be. With Frayne it is nothing to do with anything 'scary' - she is the least spooky pony I have ever met :) - she is just very unconfident when I am not walking with her (we have concentrated on groundwork until very recently, as she needed restarting).

Ali xx

[riding_puddin]

My horse does the same, he never napped and then he started to but i think i know why so ill say my reasons for it see if u relate...

Basically he's napped before i had him yet was fine whenever i took him out but i went away for 6 weeks work experience, came back, broke my collar bone after about 3 days home so he got another 4-6 weeks off. The only people who rode him were family or friends and they arn't "riders" so he went on hacks being led by me with my good arm.. lol.

Since starting to ride again he naps. I think its because i had such a break riding him and he had random strangers on his back that now he doesn't trust me to take him out. Before i'd ride him alot, including schooling, field, jumpinge etc but now as its wet and we dont have an arena its just hacking so i think he may have got bored + not trust me.

I think once i start riding him alot and gain his confidence back in me the rider he will become a better hacker again. Does that relate to you in any way? Possibly not but oh well.

I find if he's out with another horse, fine great no napping.
On his own he can nap like hell or not much or never it totally is random lately.

If i take someone out with me then he pulls if they try to lead them but i put a leadrope through is bit and give it to the other person to lead him by he basically continues with minimum or no struggle when we get to places he starts to nap at.

Also he quite likes my friend so when she walks with him and he stops and naps she will stoke him on the nose then he follows her like a lamb, but may stop again if she gets about 10ft away. (note - theres places he naps more than others so most of the hack not always need to be close).

I reccommend trying to lead with a leadrope, try get a friend to reassure horse, or walk infront of horse (i find if my friend walks in front my horse will try to follow directly behind).

Keep his mind active works at "napping points". So if i see a bit where he often stops coming i go into trot - my horse will go past a lot of scary things in trot that he wont go past in walk. If its really bad i try and focus on making him work in an outline while going past scary things or leg yielding across the rode past scary parts.... anything to stop his brain from having time to think about anything but me. :D

[riding_puddin]

Ok i wrote that then read the rest of the posts above this and damn it basically u covered everything in what i said in the last hack it sounds fantastic!! congrats on your "breakthrough" lol and i hope it lasts forever, sounds as if you had a really good time! Just like hacking should be!!