Why do showing judges want them obese?

[StormyJ]

I took Phi in her first in-hand classes today, we had great fun and she was a very good girl.
But I couldn't understand why we were just lined up in order of obesity. In the Novice, there were 10 of us and the Highland that won it (and qualified for P(UK)) was dangerously overweight - we're talking cellulite, loaded shoulders, cleft in the bum etc.
It just went all the way down getting slimmer until Phi. She is NOT poor or skinny, she's just an allrounder/PC pony too. The grey in 9th was lovely as well and his owners were annoyed. The winning pony still had mud on his hocks and hay in his mane!
I refused to be put off (I'm stubborn :p ) ,as this judge clearly didn't care what quality the ponies were, and took her in the Open anyway. I got a malicious glare as we walked in, and she lined the four of us up in the same order, and didn't even ask to see the individual trot-up. The dun qualified again and I'm pretty sure he got the championship too.
In the Novice the steward came over to me and basically said "you're not feeding her enough" which is rubbish - the vet saw her the other day about a wound on her leg (which the judge failed to notice) and said she looked fantastic, and that we'd have no trouble taking her to Bucks County this year.

I thought judging was changing for the better? I don't want to have a moan, but it's disheartening when the only pony turned out properly (the others were all clipped out/bang tailed etc.) , and who has probably the best conformation of the lot, is placed last because she's not a health risk. I know I'm biased about her as she's mine, but my mum overheard someone saying "I'd have given it to that chestnut" (and pointing to Phi) and all morning people came up to me and said how beautiful Phi is. Grrrrrrr.....I needed a rant. Much better now :)

Ah well, we got two nice rosettes and some experience! :)

[bellazebra]

Sweetheart, if you expect to go along and win every single time, you're doing the wrong discipline.

Everything is personal opinion. Now, I think it's highly unlikely (especially in a PUK qualifier) that the judge would be looking at how obese the horses were alone. All I have is your obviously biased view on the day, so I'm not going to comment either way.

However I will say that we've all had days where we've looked at the horse in first place and thought "WHAT?!?" before looking back through our [rose-tinted specs] at our own pinnacles of equestrian beauty and refinement. Just be the bigger person, move on, and remember never to exhibit under that judge again.

Any pictures of your mare?

[Mehitabel]

good judges don't.
however, without seeing the class it's impossible to comment on why the horse won - it may have been a good enough example of the breed to win despite the lard and the hay.

what is a judge supposed to do if the best horse in the class is also the most overwieght?

[StormyJ]

Bellezebra - I don't care in the least about winning :o , I had a massive grin on my face as I just enjoyed it!
I didn't think Phi should have won by any means - she didn't show off that much in her trot and was a bit "novicey" :p
It was just that it clearly wasn't judged right - other people were annoyed, both in the class and in the audience - the chestnut in third (a Welsh D) had box feet, cow hocks and a carty head (it was also fat and bang-tailed). She didn't even know what breed Phi and a couple of others were. :rolleyes: The Highland was also nice but there was an almost identical, better made, slimmer version that was put about 7th. The line-up looked like a before and after transformation from fat to fit :p
This is Phi - http://www.catchitquick.co.uk/viewyourphotos.html

The grey that won the novice was lovely and should have won but the other placings were just silly :rolleyes:

Mehitabel - that's just the thing, the Highland wasn't the best horse in the Open and shouldn't have been second in the Novice either really.

I'm over it now, don't worry, and I got some pretty rosettes :) In the summer Phi will be a bit fatter so she'll probably look better. We still had fun anyway :D

[bellazebra]

Which horse is Phi? There are quite a lot of horses on there!!

I think I've found the Highland you were moaning about. Doesn't look at all obese to me.

[StormyJ]

Ooops, I meant to link it to the photo, sorry!
There were two Highlands that were almost identical, and I had a look at the photos of the fat one and he hasn't photographed as fat as he is.
It won't like straight to the photos. She's the first chestnut on page 13 (the first event) with the Highland right before her, you can see his big belly! :p
The girl in 9th laughed and said "first today, laminitis tomorrow" so it definately wasn't just me! I can't stand fat horses though.

[Glider]

I've had a good look through the photos, and you're right, the first horse does look overweight to me (in those photos), however I can't agree that you'r horse has "probably the best conformation of the lot", there are some very nice ponies in there, as lovely as yours is, she probably just needs a little more muscle (NOT fat) to her top line to look as uptogether as some of the others in the ring. I'm also not sure what breed some of the ponies are TBH (but that's why I choose not to judge m&m classes!), however the highland screams Highland at me - maybe the judge liked a pony that was very typey, or had something else he particularly liked to focus on (some have a 'thing' about one aspect, eg limbs, shoulders, hindquaters etc)

I'm glad you enjoyed your day anyway, you've defianately found a judge to list in your little black book of people not to show under again (I don't think I'm the only one with a little black book ;) ).

[ilostmymarbles]

Assuming your horse is the dark chesnut with the falxen mane and tail and the blaze and the Highland you are on about is the dun with the dorsal stripe.
I'm sorry but i really can't see where you coming from. The highland is a bit overweight but certainly not obese. I've been around highlands quite a lot and you can get highlands far larger than that without being obese due to thier sheer muscle mass. That one does have a belly on it, but if you look furhter down at what i'm assuming was the championship theres a picture there that shows him much better.
However, it does have lovely conformation and is practically perfect type wise so i'm not suprised it won.
Your horse, while not underweight really needs to develop it's topline muscel (NOT FAT) and back end. Your horse is nice, but not nice enough to beat a hoys qualifier.
Also assuming the grey your talking about (that won the novice), and you really liked, is the small white-out grey with the clip. Once again, i apologise, but i don't like it at all. It's shoulder is fairly upright and it's front legs arn't straight.
At a PUK qualifier i would assume that the judge definatly knows what there looking for and in an M&M calss will definalty be going for horses that are very typey, not just well put together.

[chev]

Not all judges do place overweight horses. Certainly within WPCS shows there has been a definite shift away from placing obese horses if those carrying less weight are better horses.

The problem arises when you have a fat horse with good conformation and who moves well up against a less fat horse who doesn't. Difficult choice since if the judge places the fat horse higher everyone complains it was the fact that it was fat that won the class, when in fact there are many other factors at work.

But do bear in mind there are good and bad judges. I wouldn't take the results of one show under one judge to heart; there are some judges I will not show under, because I have no repspect for the way they judge.

I also found that asking the judge to explain the decision they made can be useful....

Honestly can't comment on the classes you mention since the link doesn't make things very clear... what am I looking at? Who won? Sorry! :o