Monty at Southview!

[RoxR]

Did anybody go to see Monty Roberts at the demo with Kelly Marks last night at Southview in Cheshire?

I was there - oh wow!!!

What a fantastic night!! One minute I was laughing, the next, I had tears in my eyes!

The first horse was a totally green youngster (what a beauty!) who had been handled but no sadlle/bridle/rider. Monty showed how join up is established - and it was amazing - he would say things like, "watch, when I drop my hand he will probably lower his neck" and on cue, it happened! All along Monty kept up a hilarious 'conversation' with the horse, ie providing a voice for the horse eg:

"Mr Roberts, what's that?" (looking at a saddle on the floor)
"What do you think it is?"
"I think it's a wolf!"
"How do you know about wolves?"
"My uncle told me!"
"What did your uncle tell you?"
"They have sharp teeth"
"That's not a wolf"
"Uh huh?"
"It's a saddle"
"Uh oh"
"What?"
"My uncle told me 'bout saddles too!"
"What did he tell you?"
"People put 'em on our backs!"
"That's right!"
"Uh oh!"
"What?"
"I'm gonna buck it off!"

Oh, I could continue....!

Anyway, after 30 mins the rider was on the horse, sitting quietly while the horse walked. He did a little bit of rein contact but they left it after the horse had turned in each direction and reined back.

The second horse belonged to Kelly Marks and is the one featured in her book, and they did a demo of manoevres from Le Trec.

Then came 'Fudge', a mare who was extremely dangerous to mount - she would rear, bolt, anything to get away. She gave Monty a really hard time but he didn't quit. He used a rider called Mary, who was made out of straw! I won't go through it all but by the end of the session, Grant, the professional rider could get on and off and take a few steps. Monty said at that point it was right to finish but the horse would need to continue with the work - I thought this was fair and proves that there is more to training than a quick miracle!

Finally there were two horses who would not go in a horse box. Suffice to say that within minutes - literally - each one was walking up into the box of their own free will!

It was a fantastic night, and I had my books signed by both Monty and Kelly, had my photo taken with Monty twice, and generally thoroughly enjoyed the whole thing!

If you get chance to see the tour, go!!!

[FRED]

Hi RoxR,thanks for your report.
I was going,but didn't get home from work till 7pm,and now I'm sulking even more.I enjoyed Montys book, The Man Who Listens To Horses,its a good read.
Fred.

[AmandaW]

Hi RoxR,

What a shame we didn't meet up. I was there with some of the other North West crowd.

I agree the first horse was just gorgeous (an Anglo would be my dream horse) and the lovely calm way Monty introduced the saddle and bridle was a joy. When Grant rode him he looked so relaxed.

Kelly Marks horse was also wonderful to watch. Then that poor mare came in. She looked absolutely terrified, every time Grant went to mount her she was literally shaking. This part I did not enjoy watching. Monty Roberts was jerking really hard on that pressure halter. He was saying without this halter it would take weeks, I think I would have prefered to take the long route if she had been mine.

Again I agree that the loading was impressive but did he really need to use such force when jerking that halter? Michael Peace's methods seem to get good results without resorting to pressure halters, but Monty Roberts seemed to be saying they were pretty much essential. I just wonder how much unintentional damage could be caused to a horse with such a halter in unexperienced hands?

Amanda

[Sue]

I agree with Amanda. I was there with the North West group - what a shame we didn't meet up!

I feel that Monty's methods are a LOT kinder than many others but I don't think it is 'natural' horsemanship. We had a look at his much mentioned Dooley halter and the piece that went across the nose and tightened when he or Kelly pulled down looked very fearsome. Each horse was treated with a sharp tug on that halter as soon as they entered the pen, some received many such tugs and it was obvious that it hurt.

Michael Peace achieves the same results without the use of such halters. Admittedly it may take longer but so what? If it's kinder to the horse does that really matter? Of course it may not look as impressive in a demo like the one Monty did. But Michael's demos are as good to watch.

To sum up, yes I agree that Monty's methods are much kinder than the 'traditional' ways but it would be much much kinder without the pressure halters and it is possible without them it just takes much more patience.

[RoxR]

D'you know, it didn't even cross my mind to see if anyone was going BEFORE I went!! Sorry everyone, it would have been fun! I'll remember next time!

I agree about the halter - memories of Barbara Woodhouse came back to me!! I thought with a barging horse it was ok in the right hands, because with perfect timing the horse would associate the jerk with its own action. In the wrong hands, or if a person was angry, I agree it could be dangerous. I looked at it and thought it was very expensive at £40! No wonder he kept saying how no other halter would have the same effect! I have a Be-Nice halter which was £25 and I only use it very sparingly, but I would not jerk it! Even so it has taught Roxy to respect my space much more, as she had a tendency to take off ahead of me, then spook and stand all over me! Now I can just use a fixed knotted halter on a loose line and she behaves much better (most of the time!!).

I haven't heard much about Michael Peace but I shall certainly look out for him from now on. It's interesting how people seem to take parts of other people's theories/methods and adapt them to suit their own ideas. In that way you can see how Monty and Parelli have similar ideas (see my other thread) as shown in Kelly's book.

I guess the real expertise comes in being able to assess which methods are best suited to which combination of horse and handler!

[ros]

Horses have actually been killed by incorrect use of pressure halters. Mike Peace doesn't like them at all.

I went to one MR demo. I enjoyed it, certainly. He didn't do any loading, and didn't deal with any problem horses. He took one "unbacked" youngster, and tacked it up and got it mounted and walking about, but I very much got the impression that it was "unfinished business". Not surprising really after only half an hour, give him his due.

The difficult bit when dealing with horses is sussing out what works for each individual, and finding different ways to solve the same problem.