Heavy Riders

[mwtb]

The other day, I was just helping to put a horse back into a stable, when I heard someone asking for help mounting their horse. As a woman immediately went to offer help, I didn't think any more of it. However, when I walked out of the stable, I had to wonder how on earth the feat had been managed, as the "girl" who had mounted must have weighed at least 18 stones.

Now, as someone who has struggled with weight myself, I don't want to be seen as suggesting that fat people shouldn't ride, but watching that poor horse walk off with that amount of weight on its back gave me serious pause for thought about where the line should be drawn. Frankly, it seemed utterly thoughtless and selfish to me that someone of that size would get on a horse. Am I wrong? What sort of weight of rider can horses reasonably be expected to carry if the rider is somewhat proficient and not bouncing around too much?

The horse, by the way, was about 16hh and had a decent amount of bone, but seeing as I've been told that similar horses are reaching the limit of what they can carry well with me at 14 stones, I assume that it would take a much more heavily built animal to take someone 25%+ heavier.

mwtb

[myEllie]

In the time that I have been riding I have seen some very heavy people riding little horses, and overweight teenagers on teeny-tiny ponies. I absolutely hate it. My horse is just over 15.1 hands and i weigh about 120 pounds (sorry, don't know about stones). She carries me fine, but I would not want to make her carry much more than that. Horses can generally carry more than we ask them to, but I would question how comfortable it would be for them. My horse is about 1000 pounds, so I am only about 8% of her weight. 8% of my weight is fifteen pounds, so it is not much. I could easily carry that on a run, but given the choice, I would not want to. Okay, so I didn't help and just rambled, but I figure that a 16 hh horse could carry about 200 pounds, but I would not want to make it.

[Wally]

It all depends upon the breed of horse, the ability of the rider to carry his own bodyweight well and efficiently and the fitness of both.

A heavy weight draught X with bone and a bum shoud be up to 18 stone no bother. A 16 HH TB hack NO WAY.

Now I have let riders of 18 stone ride my Icelandics:
A, because they were fit and able to carry themselves well and could ride.
B, because Icelandics are up to considerable weight, and have been bred to carry big men, not kids.

Now an 18 stone, untoned, unfit novice is another matter entirely.

If you imagine your average soldier of 80kg carrying a pack of 30kg over a yomp of 20 miles the ratio of body weight to what he is carrying is not hard to work out.

So given that the average heavyweight cobby horse is probably about 500 to 700kg work out for yourself what you think might be a reasonable comparison, given that a soldier is fit and a horse may not be as fit as a soldier.

We have a 12.2 Exmoor, I have ridden her when she's fit, she pottered about the place with no problems, I'm not lightweight.

[Casper]

i weigh about 8 and a half stone and every time i ride Bertie (13'2'') my dad makes me get down every 20 minutes or so to give his back a break when i mount again he's like a new pony all ready for taking me for another 20 to30 minutes.
do you think this is a good idea or am i giving him the idea that every rider will do this (ie. when they don't will he try to buck them off or something???)

[intouch]

Agree that the ability of the rider has a lot to do with it - but how does someone of that weight become proficient without doing some damage? Also, it goes without saying that saddle fit has even more importance, the heavier a rider is.

[Wally]

Yes, the saddle fit is THE most important thing to consider when a heavy rider is on board.

I used to work for a lass who was (I do not exaggerate) 17 stone, she used to compete at endurance on a 14.1 Arab X They BOTH won at international level, 100 miles in a day regularly twice a season, plus the qualifiers and fittening rides.

I never saw a pressure sore on his back, neither did I see the vets spinning them (eliminating) at any stage of the ride unless they had good reason.
Make up you own minds!

Casper
at 8.5 stone on a 13.2 I really don't think you pose any threat to the pony at all, I have seen ponies hunt all day of that size qwith heavier riders on board. Never worry. Ponies buck for good reason, fear, anticipation of pain or pain, if he was not happy he would not let you get back up.

[liberty911]

Let me just say first off I am biased I am a woman, I am heavy, and I am short. I rode as a child age 5 when I was under weight and under hieght. People felt a need to tell my mother I shouldn't be riding then and people feel a need to tell me now that I shouldn't ride due to being overweight. So basically your "not saying we fat people shouldn't ride just suggesting it". So Unless you meet what other people feel is exceptable you shouldn't ride? If that's the case maybe because I am "fat" I shouldn't snow board, play frisbee with my dogs, go to dance clubs and a host of other things I shouldn't do because of this that or the other. It's kind of like me saying I really wish skinny people would stay off the large bodied warmbloods I like to ride I mean they can't handle having 1,350 LBS under them ... how would that 120 pound 5'2'' woman or 145 LBS 5'6'' man hold that horses head up if it went to buck? It's ridiculous.... and Frankly there are going to be overweight riders in this world, most of then are sensible enough to know what horse is capable and when a capable horse is uncomfortable. Overweight riders and I have met plenty of them ride out to shows , take the ribbons, and get to smirk at all of the people who said they couldn't shouldn't and wouldn't! My dressage instructor is lvl I-2 and she goes about 5'5'' 160! Plain and simple a horse of 1000 pounds can handle a rider of 200 LBS with tack included in the 200 LBS. Most horses here in American be it a boxy TB, QH, Draft X, or typey Warmblood over 16hh are easily 1,200 LBS and easily capable of having a person 200 lbs on their back. Lets talk about the mounting experience though for a second since that is how this thread started right? I am 5'3'' I ride horses that are 17hh I also ride horse that are 15'3hh though! One mare is 17.2hh I mount from a mounting block no matter what I ride but would I be able to mount 17.2hh from the ground at my height (hell no) my eventing instructor and the resident horse trainer who is 5'8'' and 135 lbs (maybe less) who has spent her entire life living on a horse farm has no fun mounting that particular mare from the ground. (by the way 9 times out of 10 she mounts from a block, It saves your horses back)! So my basic opinion in this thread is that if you don't have anything nice (and you've been riding for less than 3 months) to say then don't say anything at all. I am sure the rider you mentally looked on with disgust has heard it all a million times before..... Good thing she has so much courage or so much encouragement from someplace else HUH?

[mwtb]

I'm sorry you got so upset by me asking whether my initial impressions were correct or not. Clearly I should be chastised for relating an experience and asking if I was wrong -- _literally_ -- quote, "Am I wrong? What sort of weight of rider can horses reasonably be expected to carry if the rider is somewhat proficient and not bouncing around too much?"


A few points though:

1/ I have been having lessons as an adult for about three months, true. However, while I won't claim to be one of the horsey set, I have been around horses on and off throughout my life, not that this has anything to do with being able to see that an animal has a limit on what they can carry reasonably and asking what that limit might be. Seeing as my experience seems to be important to you though, you might realise that this was an unusual sight for me even with a fair amount of experience, hence my question.

2/ You seemed to mention a 160 pound instructor as someone "heavy". 18 stones is 250 pounds or so. In the instance I witnessed, we're not talking overweight, we're talking massively obese. This wasn't even some strapping 6'6" bloke carrying a lot of muscle, it was a 5'6" or so girl who was practically swallowing the saddle. For what it's worth, I don't consider 5'5" and 160 to be anything extreme.

3/ I didn't suggest that the rider needed help because she was fat -- however, that you inferred it seems a reflection of the likelihood that a heavy rider would have more trouble.


Doing a bit of reading, the 20% rule that you mention seems to be reasonably well accepted as a guide, and 1200 pounds seems a reasonable average for a 16hh horse. 250 pounds is just short of 21% of the horse's weight, which is over this guideline, not even including tack. Considering that others recommend a 6:1 horse to rider ratio, particularly for athletic riding -- which would place a limit of 200 pounds on the same horse -- I don't think I was out of order to question what I saw. I still question it, and I still think it's selfish. As far as "encouragement" goes, if someone like that wants encouragement from me, they can get it by trying to lose weight before getting on a horse, otherwise, if they ask me for encouragement, I'll be encouraging them to get off.

mwtb

[liberty911]

It figures you would encourage them to get off or loose weight first. Personally I think and it's just my opinon of course. Giving your opinion to the 250 LBS 5'6'' "Girl" might turn out to be a slick way of ending up missing a few teeth. So instead you let your opinion which mind you your intiltle to loose on this board were the person your talking about won't see it or won't know you wrote it. So this "girl" is selfish and well your a "coward"! Aren't opinions just dandy?

For all of the young women who might read this thread and are not shaped like brittany Spears or any member of the spice girls. The average adult woman is 5'4'' and a size 14! The average adult black woman in the US is 5'5" and a size 20. That is AVERAGE!!!!!!!!! It is not wrong to be proud or hold your head high and this means any female size 2-24. It is wrong to let anyone bully you into thinking you are unable to do things you love because of your size small, medium, large or extra large. For the record I addressed this to young women because I feel most mature women would already know who they are an not be effected by small minded people. I supose though sometimes all people need to know they are unique and respected.

MWTB let me make a suggestion. Obviously you ride at a facility that gives instruction. Ask your trainer why they allow this woman to sit on a horse she is killing? And before you offer those fortold words of wisdom try talking to this woman find out if she's a sensible person then give you expert advice that should include something about how you know draft's are being used for the heavy hunter and that warmbloods also can be found that plus sized woman look great on. at 250 LB I would say most good boned horses would move very well under her. Tell her I also said the views from up at 17hh are wonderful! Making helpful suggestions and positive conversation is appreciated by everyone MWTB no matter how much saddle they consume!

[mwtb]

Clearly you have issues that you want to talk about beyond what I'm actually referring to and aren't about to address the actual point which is that of suitable rider weight for a particular horse. Last time I checked, the definition of coward didn't include asking other people to double-check an opinion. Would I have had to walk up to her and tell her I thought she was too heavy for the horse (which may well have been her own horse) and that I was going to post here in order to not be considered a coward in your eyes? That would be an interesting outlook -- and I'd disagree.

The dress size of the "average" woman is neither here nor there. I certainly haven't seen any articles discussing the correct dress size for a rider on a horse of a certain size. By the way, you are aware, of course, that the population "average" actually drives dress sizing, so a size 14 now is actually a fair amount larger than it was 30 years ago. To get back to the practical issue of weight, if people keep going the way they are, the "average" woman may well be 200 pounds or more in the future; do you think that this will mean that the average horse will miraculously be able to carry them, or that the riders will miraculously be fit and strong enough to carry their weight well?

You appear to be trying to lecture me about minimally related subjects even though I'm telling you that what I saw would appear to go beyond the guidelines that _you_ yourself quoted. As you continue to talk as if I'm preaching some sort of body-fascist doctrine based on aesthetics, I don't think it's worth continuing the conversation with you, as I imagine it's going to spiral down into some sort of "fat-acceptance" rallying cry or a lengthy and ill-informed diatribe on my media-driven ideas of acceptable body types.

In case you're still willing to try and actually see past your cause, I'll say one last time -- my point is simply that horses carry riders and that there has to be some sort of responsibility for the weight of that rider and I'd suggest that that responsibility lies with the rider. Where the line is drawn is obviously open to many variables, but there _must_ be a line. You can't just chant "fat people deserve respect and encouragement" and consider that washes their hands of any concern for the horse or for their own safety for that matter. If you think I'm being nasty because I consider it unfair for a human, in full control of their own actions, to place an unnecessarily large burden on an animal that they are engaging for their own leisure, then I'm sorry, but I think your pendulum has swung too far in one direction.

mwtb

[bannerlover]

Heavy riders should definately ride bigger horses or horses that are equipped to take their weight. Also, heavier riders should shorten their stirrups 2 holes because it is easier on the horses back. The is a person at my barn who must weight at least 195 and she rides a belgin draft. The simplest way to get around the matter is to lose weight.

[CT]

Wow - what a hot debate this subject has been!

Thought I'd just add my two pennyworth.......... Whilst the larger than average (or even very much larger than average) person can, and should, ride there has to be some form of cut-off point in the interests of the horse. Most riding schools have weight limits of 14 or so stones.

It is not cowardice to fail to confront the heavy rider. Imagine if you were that person and someone confronted you. It is also not unreasonable to suggest that there is prejudice where weight is concerned which can, in turn, lead to larger than average people being excluded from participation in some areas of social lie. In short, both of you are right!

CT

[galadriel]

I invited a friend of mine to come go riding with me sometime. She's short and overweight (has been on a drastic diet since Octoberish). She told me that she has always been told that she couldn't ride because she was too heavy. When I inquired, it turns out that she never actually asked anyone in a horsey profession, it was just people she knew. [I assured her that my horses were perfectly capable of carrying her comfortably.]

I weigh more than this girl does--I'm 5'10", but I still outweigh her. No one has _ever_ suggested to ME that I might be too heavy for my horses (which is good, 'cause I'm not). In fact, I've been encouraged to ride our little Shetland occasionally to re-school her when she picks up bad habits from the lesson kiddees.

Unless you know the horse, YOU don't know enough to gauge the horse's ability. It's all right to ask "Wow, was that too much to ask of the horse?" but you have to have SOME faith in the professionals.

If horses can carry double then horses can carry one heavy person.

[cabanha]

I would like to add something to this discussion that I find very important. My 20-year old TB gelding (he is 15.3hh) used to be a great jumper although know he is older and has arthritis in his cannon bone. We were friends with a nice couple who owned a sport horse stable near us. They gave lessons and they were wondering if we would let them give lessons with our TB and in return they would pay board fee, feed, vet, farrier, etc. Well this sounded like a wonderful deal because he would be getting exercise and showing experience since I was too young at the time to ride him. Well, we visited him one day to see the woman who had been taking lessons on him and showing him. This woman was as sweet as can be but she had to have weighed 250+pounds, no exaggeration. She was jumping our TB and when a medium-sized horse with fairly small bone must land from a 3'6 fence on one foot with a 250+ pound woman on his back along with a saddle, it's not very comfortable nor is it healthy. My horse was overworked and exhausted and I felt as if I could have killed our "friends" and his rider for letting that happen to him. I do not speak with them anymore and my TB was never able to jump again after he was injured at a jumping show (ridden by 250 lady again) and guess what leg had the injury: front right, the leg he landed on. You can't prevent these kind of riders from ever getting on a horse again, but at least you can try to let people become aware of some of the problems that can occur.

[mwtb]

CT, you've given me an opportunity to respond to something mentioned earlier that I avoided because it seemed to be dragging the topic off into a place I didn't want to go. If fat people want to dance, skate, do aerobics, ride motorbikes, hang-glide, parachute, scuba-dive, go caving, rock-climb, walk on stilts, do a trapeze act... _whatever_. I will applaud them as much as I can be bothered to care about what they are doing. The question I asked is about whether they should inflict their weight on a horse and how to judge whether a particular horse is capable of taking a particular rider.

The problem with this sort of discussion is that it raises all sorts of spectres in many people's lives and also invites people to recite the "special" instances where an expert 300 pound rider took a 13hh pony to an international 100 mile race record, or whatever. Forget about spectres, and forget about special. With an average rider and an average horse, what is reasonable? I'd suggest that 250 pounds of poorly muscled -- and therefore poorly controlled -- physique _isn't_ reasonable.

mwtb

[Katie_85]

Ooooh, let's back off just a bit!

Liberty I can see where you (or anyone) might take some offense at this subject. It's a hot debate. I myself am no lightweight. I weigh around 15 stone. If I did my math right. One of the first questions I asked Debbie when I called to inquire about lessons is "do you have horses capable of carrying heavy riders?" The answer was a resounding "yes". Mwtb was really just asking us all a question, and a good one at that! Where she ha only been formerly taking lessons around 3 months it is certainly warranted. Please don't be offended by her curiosity; I'm sure she didn't mean it in a bad way at all! :)


mwtb You asked a very good question. You don't have your location in your profile, that would help with an answer. Wally has given you some great info. on breeds and their carrying ability in Britain. Over here in the States, howver, it's a bi different. My school horse is a 15.1hh Quarter Horse. Big bum, wide shoulders, lot'sa muscle! She carries me no problem! Walk, trot, canter, gallop. I mount wih a block, or when it's inconvienient, I put her down a small hill so I'm ot pulling on her back. Here, we don't ride 16hh hunters. We in the south ride QH's, or some mix of that mostly. These horses can carry a lot! Many Western saddles aren't light, and many riders aren't either. But that's what the breed was made for. I've also ridden Spotted Saddle Horses that were under 15hh. And a geriatric Arab who was just 15hh. None of these horses have had any problems carrying me. The girl you saw, it alo depends a loot on her body composition. If she was 18s of nothing but fat, she probably couldn't carry herself as well. Myself, I have done almot 9 years of competitive swimming, as well as other sports, so I have a bit of muscle in there too. I don't sit like a sack of potatoes when I ride. It all goes case by case on the horse and the rider.

[liberty911]

A 1,000 pound horse can carry 200 pounds! You add it up firgure out what a 250 pound person needs under them for the horse to be comfortable.

[Outrider]

Personally, I believe a horse can carry alot more weight than most of you think. I weigh a fairly trim 215 pounds on my 6'2" frame, and I have ridden horses from 14 to 18 hands with no problems for the horses whatsoever. Mostly 15 to 16 hands. I know a man who is at least 300 bounds that rides a 16 hand Baskir Curly who has no problems with that weight. Look at Icelandics. They are not large at all and can carry an incredible amount. Draft horse can pull an incredible amount of weight in comparison to their size. I know a lady who is around 300 pounds and she rode a 16 hand quarter horse until he passed away at the ripe old age of 28 from Cushings. She had raised him from a foal. Horses can carry alot more weight than you might really guess. Look at the smaller pack mules and even burros. They too are capable of carrying a great deal of weight in comparison to their size. I think it more depends on the conditioning of the horse as well. Happy Trails!

[liberty911]

I think the point of this is not that a tall man of 250 pounds isn't acceptable to ride a 16hh horse. It is that the OBESE 5'6'' 250 pound woman isn't supposed to ride a 16hh horse. As far as I know 250 LBS is 250 LBS and as long as you can lift your ass to do a working trot and carry yourself lightly while going through all other paces that is the long and short of horse back riding.

I will say two things on this matter! I personally believe most men who devote time and energy to riding horses ride well. On the opposite side of that comment MOST men sit more heavily in the saddle. While MOST woman (and I have watched a pregnant woman ride dressage tests) carry themselves more lightly in the saddle. You do not need to be of any specific size to ride horses as long as you are sensible about choosing your mount. :rolleyes:

[Heather]

Phew! I seem to have walked in on a hot topic here!

My own school horses have always been limited to a 13 stone weight limit, and I will not budge generally from that rule. Wally is of course right, there is chasm of difference between a hefty unbalanced novice and a heavier rider who has good carriage and poise.

You can easily have a rider of fifteen stones who carries his or herself well, and probably weighs only twelves stones in the saddle. On the other hand you could have a twelve stone rider who sits like a sack of spuds and weighs more like fifteen stone on the horse, if all of the weight is centralised on the horse's back and not spread around the sides as well by the rider sitting in a good balance with lower leg in light contact.

However, I have long had a battle with my weight, and have to watch my diet always if I am not to end up a lot heavier than I am, despite my very active lifestyle. I eat healthily and limit my chocolate intake to a couple of bars at the weekend, and also watch my alcohol limits ( oh why did they have to invent choclate and alcohol!).

I feel that I am on my horse's back only by his good grace, and feel it an obligation to make his job therefore, as easy as possible by keeping my weight down to a reasonable level - and even then, I am a stone and a half heavier than I used to be. I managed for years to keep to nine and a half stones at 5' 8" tall, but even eating healthily, I cannot get below 11 stones now without virtually starving.


Heather

[kelsey]

I read an article (Practical Horseman or Dressage Today) that involved a study someone did on riders' actual weight vs weight in the saddle - as Heather says, the better the rider, the less the saddle weight. A heavy higher level dressage rider actually ended up weighing less (to the horse) than a thin novice rider. Makes sense, if you think about it....I have one of those "Healthy Back" purses that seems to weigh less than half of my old purse with the same contents. It has to do with weight distribution and how much effort we have to make to keep our balance.

[Outrider]

Liberty, I didn't mean to imply in any way by my post that a shorter, heavier person should not ride. In fact, the people I listed as examples are all around 5'6"or so. My only point, and I thought I was in your corner, was that I felt that horses can carry much more weight than most folks realize and the PERCEPTION of horses being ridden by heavy riders was not founded all the time.

[Maci]

Personally, I think it doesn't matter what the weight of the rider is, it's how she/he rides that can make all the difference.

An overwieght rider that rides correctly, can be easier for the horse to handle, than the "normal" weight rider that rides incorrectly and adds extra "pounds" to the saddle.

Maci :)

[Wally]

I too feel that most horses are underestimated in their ability to carry weight. Fell ponies were expected to carry 19 stone,266lbs (dead weight) of lead from the mines to the harbours great distances, not an hour or so but a good couple of days trek.

Most British natives are wieght carriers, I'm a big lump, I lost 23lbs so I could meet Heather's weight for her horses, when I was on her course I was bang on the 13 stones. Still am just about, but at 14 stone 9 my little Icelandic still performed well. To be frank I feel better for it so will endevour to loose a bit more, but I am not built on a light frame so that's that!

If a rider is fat, and fit (which they can be as I've mentioned my endurance friend earlier) there is no reason why a moderately sized, fit horse cannot carry them.

[FRED]

From day one,I have always felt guilty about my weight when getting onto horse.
I'm usualy 14 and a half stone,I can get to 13:5 in the summer.
At the centre where I ride mostly, there have been riders 18 stone in weight.The owner asured me that some of her horses are more than up to carrying my weight and more,its how they are riden thats important.

I have checked out a lot of riding schools,as a rule they have a limit between 13 and 13:5 stone weight for the rider,that is in Staffs.
Fred.

[myEllie]

I have a limit of 150 for anybody who wants to ride my horse. Obviously I don't ask them to get on a scale, but I just look at the person and guess. I don't think that it is unreasonable. I'm just protecting my horse. She is sixteen and I want to keep her healthy and competitive.

[Katie_85]

Myellie, that's your horse and your decision. The question, however, was pertaining to a horse's carrying capacity. And like it's been said, depending on the breed, that's usually more than 150lbs. I can't think of too many adult riders nowdays who would easily meet the 150 cutodd. But since it is your horse, you do have that right to make that decision. :)

[myEllie]

Well I hope that most RIDERS would meet 150 pounds. Riding is a sport and you need to be in shape. Maybe that is why people who don't ride, don't see riding as a sport. In what other sport do you see 250 pounds athletes. And I'm not talking about 250 pound muscular weight lifters or football players. Have you ever seen a 250 pounds gymnast or figure skater? What about a basketball player, or heck what about golf? No, because they are athletes, and realize that to be successful, they need to be in shape.

[intouch]

My friend's little girl who is a lovely skater has not been allowed to progress in her competition level until she looses weight, because she would damage her joints with the more advanced moves. If she can do that to herself.............
As no lightweight myself, I gave my TB to my daughter when I became too heavy for her, and although I would school a TB or 14.2hh for short periods, a good sport horse is more my style nowadays. Or a Highland.............dream on.
I think MyEllie has hit the nail on the head, riding is a sport and as such riders need to be fit for the job and adapt themselves to the equipment. I would not stand in judgement over anyone, but I wouldn't see a horse abused if I could help it.

[Katie_85]

Right, I agree, in shape. But some people's natural body weight falls above 150. Even some women. Women, BTW, are supposed to have between 20% and 30% body fat to be considered in the normal range. So for many, that's 160 or above. 10s is 140, 11s is 154. That's above 150. Myellie, I'm certainly not attacking you personally. Because like I said, your horse. But I do think that you canot simply go by weight to determine physical fitness. Not everyone who is above 150 is out of shape, and not all of those are bodybuilders either. I also don't belive that heavy people who ride horses should be considered as abusing the animals. Let's give out euqine friends a little credit here, 1200 pounds of muscle can buck off a rider who they cannot carry! :)

[KarinUS]

I want to think about this too, but the stones always throw me...
It also looks like the British pound slightly differs from the US pound?
US pound= 453g; British pound= 500g
(please correct me, if this is wrong, because everything else is based on this...)
edit: this information is in fact incorrect as I am told below. British and US pound are the same... makes it even easier!

I am 5'10" and weigh 140 US pounds, so that would be ten stones, if US and British pounds are the same?!
Am I going down the wrong trail with this?

Anyway. I think heavier riders can absolutely be accommodated by sturdier horses! At the same time heavier riders can be too much for a horse with a slight frame. I don't think tall or short is as much the issue as how "sturdy" the built it...

:)

[gewebster]

I just wanted to say that I have just started to ride 2 months ago and am quite happy to weigh 13 1/2 stone/ 5ft tall and ride a horse of 15HH who is 33 years young. She copes with no problems and works 5 out of 7 days. She is fit and healthy.
I do agree that a heavier experienced rider carries much better on the horses back than a lighter inexperienced one. To see an inexperienced rider bouncing up and down on a horses back whilst cantering is dreadful. But we all have to learn at some point. Providing the horse is matched perfectly to the rider than there should be no problem.

One thing most people seem to forget is that for all us short but heavy people its reall fun getting off your horse of 16HH+. It does wonders for your knees and ankles when you hit the ground.

Please spare us athought too.

[mwtb]

20-30% may be "normal", but normal isn't the same as "good". 30% is actually the very upper limit for medically acceptable for women, 20-25% is good for a non-athlete, and athletic women are commonly between 15% and 20% bodyfat.

Anyway, I agree that a particular weight can't be set as a fixed limit, and I'm certainly over 150 pounds, but then maybe MyEllie's horse is rather small, I don't know - either way, it's up to her. A percentage of the horse's weight would seem a useful guide, but even that is obviously open to variations in the horse's fitness, build, and the rider's own ability.

However, some people seem to be wanting to have it both ways. Weight is weight, apparently, so the guy who is 200 pounds at 12% bodyfat is the same as the 200 pound woman at 40% bodyfat, and the fact that he's far more capable of controlling his body than she is isn't allowed to count -- yet, in the same argument, it's all about rider ability and weight is apparently just a minor player. I find it hard to believe that the horse is fooled by this thinking, even if the rider is.

I would suggest, that if all other things are equal, a heavier rider is going to be harder on the horse, and that with two riders of equal weight and "ability" but one obese, and one not, the obese rider is going to tire more quickly, and generally be less in control of their own weight and equally be more of a burden. I don't believe anyone could be blamed for considering that putting a seriously overweight rider on a horse is something that requires careful consideration. Of course it's possible to be overweight and fit and strong and an excellent rider, but these are going to be exceptional cases, not the norm.

Horses and ponies can indeed carry heavy loads and have historically been used to do so, but I hardly consider that usage to be an example for the modern horse owner or rider. 14hh ponies used to be expected to carry two hundredweight (16 stones, or 224 pounds) of ore from lead mines, but their working life wasn't exactly pleasant or long. Can and should are two different concepts.

Oh, and there is no difference between British pounds and U.S. pounds. Neither are metric.

mwtb

[KarinUS]

LOL. I knew it sounded too good to be true! Haha...

10 stones it is then...

[kedwards]

I'm a bit nervous to jump into this topic as it clearly stirs up biases and defensiveness. But, I do have to wonder whether an inexperienced muscle-bound person would really be any lighter in the seat than an inexperienced obese person of the same weight. The muscles only help if they're used correctly (and that only comes with riding experience or possibly natural ability). Those muscles can help distribute weight more evenly, or they can work against the horse, depending upon how they're used. A beginner who weighed more than the horse can comfortably carry would concern me whether that beginner was a body builder or a couch potato (and I would be equally comfortable with either, if the horse was good with beginners and could comfortably their weight).

[Katie_85]

Karin-Don't you dare complain abotu 10 stones! LOL :D

kedwards-So true, the horse's carrying capacity should be considered in either case.

mwtb-You're right, normal doesn't always mean good. Pornography on the internet is a normal occurence. That doesn't mean it's good. Normal in this case, 20-30% means healthy to the medical community. And while it's true that 30% is in the highest end of the range, it is STILL considered healthy. You are correct, weight is weight. But I don't think people want only the good sides of the issue. I am "arguing" that many people who are numerically considered heavy are also medicall considered healthy. So what I'm saying is that the weight of the rider should be far less of a factor than the fitness he/she posseses. And I know it's unreasonable for any person, horsey or otherwise, to judge a person's fitness level by looking at them. I'm just saying that we need to look at the big picture of humans on horses, and not be so quick to decide who should and should not be riding a horse. :)

[liberty911]

The comment I wrote earlier was not geared toward making your point blurred. I agree with you 100%!!!! I was merely stating what Mr "I don't think obese people should ride" was trying to get at. It was never about the "weight" It was about the fact that it was a 5'6'' woman (better known as "GIRL") who was morbidly obese and obviously he was so concerned about the horse he niether bothered to ask an instructor or find out the woman's skill level!

MWTB ... now remember you said you weren't going to reply!

Kewards: I agree that this post has brought some emotions to the table but sometimes when something is personal it's going to have that effect. Every persons experience is different and based on my experience I think this entire thread is incredible.

[mwtb]

Liberty, I didn't say I wouldn't reply. I said I wasn't going to continue the conversation I was having with _you_. In the meantime, other people have joined, and I responded to the points in general. Seeing as you've taken it upon yourself to happily characterise me as the meany here, I don't feel inclined to simply clear the floor for you to make speeches.

For what it's worth, the thread started about weight and is about weight. That we're talking about obesity and fitness and riding skills is the result of other people's input, not my focus. In most case, the input has been in order to gain a more complete picture of what affects the suitability of a rider for a horse. You yourself made it a male/female comparison, not me. If the rider I had seen had been 250 pounds of male muscle, I still would have questioned it, because it still would have looked wrong -- I'm afraid, Liberty, that more women ride, and more women are fat than muscular, so the odds were stacked against me witnessing an event that you would have approved of mentioning.

Katie, I don't actually believe the argument is as "weight is weight", I was responding to some of the self-conflicted arguments being used here. I do believe that weight is an overriding factor in the suitability of a rider for a horse, however, and that there has to be a limit, no matter how good the rider is.

mwtb

[saddlesore]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by myEllie
[ My horse is about 1000 pounds, so I am only about 8% of her weight. 8% of my weight is fifteen pounds, so it is not much.
____________________________________________________

just for the record, 120lbs is 12% of 1000lbs and the weight of an individual does not dictate their physical fitness. weighing 190lbs and being 5'9", i'm no where near being fat or out of shape. riding a horse properly is the way to insure the well being of your horse. i've seen girls weighing no more than 100lbs, not knowing how to ride, bouncing on the back of a horse, wondering how much that hurts the horse.

[Wally]

I am 13 stone (182lbs?) Now, if you can keep up all day with me in open hill rounding up sheep, you are relatively fit! Spend a day shoeing horses and see whose muscles are toned!!

I am no lightweight, but my horse of about 13hh can go all day with me, I would never ask a 16hh TB to do this as they wen't bred for it.

What is obese anyway? As I mentioned before I knew a woman of 5 feet 3 who was 17 stone (238lbs) and competed at 100 mile endurance rides and won golds on a 14.1hh, who is the obese person, was she fit or not?

There is NO WAY I'd make 10 stone, my family are front row rugby players, big frame.

By the way I think the England pack can be described as athletes......rugby team and not a man under 14 stone..and he is only 5 feet 6 inches! You can be fit and heavy.

[nirikina]

Although this doesn't answer the initial question I would like to add my view, which agrees with mwtb when he makes the point that "normal" isn't necessarily "good. It is also a fact that what is considered "normal" weight in the USA is a higher figure than in the UK.

Ever since the medical profession began making those charts which are supposed to tell you what weight range is ok for your height, the upwards limit has been rising. I don't remember the exact figure but something like 10% of children, 20% of teenagers and probably 30% of adults are OBESE! That is not just overweight, that is medically at risk of damaging their heart, lungs, backbone, etc with the extra stress.

I know that different breeds are bred for strength, stamina, speed etc, but unlike humans, I have not seen any evidence that horses as a species are generally increasing in size to match the human populations increase in size. Therefore heavyweight people who want to ride need to be ever more aware of their size, fitness, and ability, and give some consideration to the horse that is being asked to carry their weight.

I myself am 5ft 7 (1.7 metres) and weigh about 110lbs (50kg). I am sure there are shetland ponies out there very able to carry my weight, but the sight of my long legs hanging down would be laughable, so I don't. Also, though I am fit and flexible and able to mount 17hh from the ground unassisted when the need arises, I almost always use a mounting block whatever the size of horse I am riding. I would hope if I was in mwtb's situation I would have the courage to ask the "girl" and the owner/instructor if they had considered the issue and made a fair decision.

[myEllie]

First my horse is not small, not really. She is 15.1 1/4 hands, and about 1000 pounds. She is a TB and has the typical build of one, but is not small.

Somebody, I don't feel like checking who, said "weight is weight". I don't really agree with this. Somebody who is 200 pounds and muscular, would most likely have the weight distributed more equally throughout their body than somebody who is 200 pounds and "fat" (sorry), who would most likely carry most of their weight in their stomach or their hips and thighs. The distribution of weight is also an important factor.

[Debutante]

Since almost everyone has Ôweighed inÕ on this fascinating topic, here are my two cents worth.
First, I think we need to acknowledge that ÔMWTBÕ has raised an important and worthwhile issue. I do not believe that he or she should be censured for merely posing the question.
Furthermore, addressing the serious personal neuroses regarding weight that have come to light is WELL beyond the scope of this forum.
Here in Canada, for adult males ÔobesityÕ is defined as a body fat content greater than 25% of the total body weight. For adult females, a body fat content of 30% or greater is considered obese. Canadian recommended body fat for males is 15-18% of total body weight and for females, 20-25% of total body weight. In both males and females, fat percentages rise with increasing age.
Although the many factors involved will affect the relative safety and comfort of the horse being ridden, I think we owe it to our horses to always err on the side of caution Ð since the horses donÕt get a vote on the matter.

ÔNuff said! ;)

Debutante

[kedwards]

MyEllie, I was the one who (not in so many words) said "weight is weight," at least when it comes to equally skilled riders. Until I am presented with solid evidence to the contrary (and I'd love to hear it, if anyone is aware of any), I can't buy into your point that a higher center of gravity would be more comfortable for the horse. In fact, physics tells us that a lower center of gravity is more stable (picture a "Weeble," the one's that wobble but don't fall down) and a broad base distributes weight over a larger area. Furthermore, center of gravity (much to the consternation of those who'd like to change their relative weight distribution), doesn't necessarily change with fitness.

[ali cat]

WELLLLLLL---i canna resist----i gotta get my bit in here:)

i am overweight--so there!!!!!!

and i am not going to give up riding.

tim can carry me easily--he is fit and enjoys our hacks,

all those who say everybody who rides should be under certain weight limits--just wait til you are 46, have had 2 kids, are on hrt, cannot do most other sports because you have neck trouble, have had serious illness and work unsociable hours with the stroppy public---i need my chocolate!!!!--then tell me if you're still the same weight and fitness that you are now---and tell me if you're not --are you going to give up the one good thing in your life just cos some skinny person syas you're too fat

if a rider has amount that can cope easily then he or she should be able to ride without censure

[Wally]

I too am a fat cow, I'm not giving up my nags, they have no problems.

Good for you! ali cat, the more there is of you the more there is to love!!

[Mossy]

I confess to being a skinny long legged thing 8.5 stone! so hardly can enter the discussion but I get some odd looks when I tell folks that hubby rides Moss who is 14.2! Moss is 14.2 worth of Highland steam roller! Very broad in bone and girth, very fit and my 6ft 1 novice son does not look under horsed on him. The way Moss was acting today Moss does not feel over ridered either!

[Wally]

God grief, 14.2hh of Highland? ... is the man alive who is too big for him?

Jonah Lomu, meet your Nemesis!:D

[liberty911]

I have not seen much middle ground in these posts. I would say half think weight isn't an issue as long as your sensible about a mount while the other half believes the heavy rider just plain shouldn't be a rider. Interesting to say the least and I suppose I shouldn't be suprised but to be honest I am.

You know while I am here... someone mentioned something to the tune of they have seen no evidence that horses are getting bigger to deal with people getting larger. Personally I think the huge popularity of draft crosses and other warmbloods in the united states is proof that humans are wanting to breed LARGER horses with more BONE at least in this country. Sometimes I am jealous at the fact that in the UK you can get a lovely cob rather easily where here in the states TB's and QH's are plentiful. The American warmblood is not hard to find but most better than green broke, have been schooled, or even shown American warmbloods are upward of 10,000 us dollars and tend to be at or above 16hh. <SIGH> green with envy! (sometimes that is)

[LindaAd]

You'll soon know if you're too heavy, equinechikk, the horse will tell you...

Now I'm a heavy one, not quite in Wally's class, but then I haven't got Wally's skills, and I know I'm not too heavy for my horse, he's a chunky cob, 15.1hh with plenty of bone. But he tells me when he gets tired. For example last autumn we went to Dartmoor with some kids from the pony club - plenty of galloping about on the moors, and Barney loved it. But there came a point - nearly at the end of the day - when he said quite clearly: I don't think I feel like galloping any more, let's trot instead. So we joined the slow ones at the back, and he was fine, and led everyone home at a very fast walk.

What I'm trying to say is that any horse gets tired, depending on its level of fitness and what you're asking it to do - the fact that a rider looks too heavy to someone skinny tells you nothing at all. When you see a horse going along, sweating and puffing, head down, and the rider is still urging it on, then maybe something's not right.

But no one has a right to say that someone else is too fat to ride - liberty, you're badly named if that's what you believe - unless of course you own the horse, and then it's up to you.

[kelsey]

Liberty - if you want a horse that is built very much like an English cob, try a Canadien horse!

My guy is awesome, very very sensible and very forward at the same time, easy to train and quite talented at dressage (jumps too!) He is also trained to drive and can go all day on the trails without tiring out.

He is 15.2 with a lot of bone, great feet that never need shoes, and eats the least amount of any horse in the barn.

I am just afraid that they may get more expensive now that they have been declared Canada's national horse.

You lucky Americans get to take advantage of our low dollar too when you horse shop up here!

[liberty911]

While it is true about the low dollar while shopping in Canada. To bring the horse back could cause some heart burn I fear. Krista gets mad when I consider a horse 6 hours away because of shipping costs or travel time. I can't imagine what she would say if I told her I wanted to horse shop in Cananda. I do appreicate the advice though and if I see any canadian horses for sale in PA, NY, or WV I will be sure to investigate further. <sigh> Currently I am considering the purchase of a mare for myself (alone) this time. She's a six years old and very quiet in nature at 15'3hh and 1,300 pounds she suits me. I am Constantly looking for horses to add to our training program, or co-own with a man at the barn who does alot of buying and resale stuff, or looking for a horse for one of the kids in our lesson program. I have never honestly considered my own horse though. Part of it is the responsibility and part of it is my riding. I keep thinking I'm not good enough yet to own a horse. The co-owning and leasing has worked itself out just fine to this point. However I am starting to feel an strong urge to MOVE FORWARD with my riding. Lesson horses are great but for some reason it takes me awhile to learn to trust a horse and build up a relationship with them. I know that's probably not a great thing but it's me. I wouldn't say I am scared but I do pay attention more to the horse than my learning whatever I am doing. Krista calls it brain freeze LOL. I usually ride pretty aggressive like to make myself and the horse work to the edge of our comfort zone. When I am put on a new horse to me I just kind of sit up there it matters not that a 6 year old just rode the horse as I watched.

[azbazz]

As someone said right at the beginning of this topic, it all really depends on the type of horse, it's breed, weight etc. Whilst I admit to being a skinny 4.5 stone 12 year old, I don't usually have anything wrong with overweight riders, just as long as they don't break the poor horse's back, haha.
I don't believe in anyone being 'too fat' to ride, there will always be a horse which is capable of taking the rider's weight, just as long as you are not extremely extremely obese, in that case you *might* just have a problem. ;)
Often I envy overweight riders in the sense they seem to be able to control their horse more than us incredibly skinny riders, if a horse bolted with me I'd most likely hobble off!

[Tina J]

Something that hasn't been considered here is the fitness of the horse. If the horse itself is overweight, then whether or not it is a "weight carrying" breed, it will be less capable of carrying a heavy rider, because it is already under strain from its own excess weight. I'm happy to be a chubby little thing myself, battling with the family obesity genes, but that's my choice, and to eat or not eat, exercise or not exercise, is down to me. I do think we owe it to our animals though to keep them steadily exercised and not let them get overweight. They don't make conscious choices, they just follow their instints. So it is down to us to make sure that they are healthy and capable of meeting the demands we place on them.

[Mirage]

O.k. first off I no nothing about stones!

I rage from 110 to 115 lbs. and own 14.2H. to 16.2H horses.

I fit them fine, they range from Appy's to TB's and Qh, crosses

When you go and look for a horse to purchase you look for one that can carry you. and that is it. Your not going to be 190 lbs. and get a 14 H pony.. common sense.

Yup this is a heated topic arising... and hey Is everyone happy with their weight? and their mounts? Yes? o.k. then why doesn't everyone go and tack up their ponies and go for a long ride and then come back here and keep the peace!

It is up to the riding stable to choose repectable mounts for their riders. I myself would not want to see anyone let alone let
anyone ride my
13.2 schoolies ... just will not happen.. BUT my 15 Handers sure pack on respectable
weight. Everyone knows their horses limits .... regardless if they are owned privately or are schoolies.

[LindaAd]

Originally posted by Mirage

Yup this is a heated topic arising... and hey Is everyone happy with their weight? and their mounts? Yes? o.k. then why doesn't everyone go and tack up their ponies and go for a long ride and then come back here and keep the peace!

[/B]

That's a nice reply, Mirage - made me smile!

BTW, a stone is 14 lbs, so you weigh about 8 stone - pretty light by any standards;)

[Bebe]

One thing that strikes me is that it's very easy to look at some people and say "they're obese, must weight x amount of stones and are too heavy for that horse", yet there are many riders who do not look fat yet are quite heavy.

I myself am 5'5" and weigh 10 stones (140lbs), yet I'm a size 10-12. I'm much heavier than most of the similarly sized (height and clothes) I know yet no-one comments when I'm handed a 13.2hh pony to ride (used to ride a very fine 13.2hh in lessons, absolutely hated it but couldn't convince anyone I was too heavy. Also used to ride a 13.2hh cob type pony that I was very comfortable on).

You can't always judge a book by its cover and just because someone looks slim doesn't mean they're light, just as someone who looks fat is necessarily too heavy for most horses. Most people don't blink when a man gets on a horse yet the majority of men will weigh more than a female rider, even an overweight one in some cases. Guessing a persons weight isn't an accurate method of determining whether they're too heavy to ride a particular horse, just as guessing a horses weight isn't accurate either.

[binky]

I am 11 stone and 5'8". I have a 14.2hh welsh cob - who is a sturdy chap - though probably not as solid as the impressive sounding Moss! A gentle canter in a field last week turned into a flat out gallop - approaching a hedge with every indication that he was planning on jumping it! :eek:
We managed to pull up - both puffing hard -
him - out of breath and pleased with himself
me - hyperventilating!

We danced home on our toes - I got off and had a quiet sit down to recover!

I wouldn't put a kid on him unless I wanted to see the child vanish into the next county... now there's a thought!

[Rachel C.]

Surely, the real thing with weight is the amount of "pressure" you put on the horses back. Pressure reduces with area, so if you are a larger rider then it must be essential to use a saddle with wide panels (not a jumping saddle!) the saddle should be a perfect fit and a trekking or endurance saddle would be ideal, as they often have "HUGE" panels to spread your weight.

The way you sit must have a HUGE effect on your weight. The calculation for pressure is, pressure= force (weight) divided by area. If you sit in the classical or enlightened equitation way, spreading your weight down through your thighs as well as your seat you could be reducing your weight maybe by a 25%?

At the end of the day it does depend upon rider ability, horse build and length of back, but if the horse is happy and healthy in his work I can't see a problem.

Rachel

[cvb]

being one of thsoe average people who is heavier than they would like, I decided a while back that I would focus on fitness, not fat. And tghat is both me and horse.

Of course there is a commonsense element too.

But as mentioned in a previous reply, fit does not necessarily mean skinny or light.

So my personal limit is to do what myself and horse are fit to do. If that is potter about for 30mins in walk, thats what we do. If its blast about the countryside at high speed, so be it.

I have a knee injury, so use a convenient mounting block, or hill or whatever. There is nothing wrong with needing help to get up.

I would say however, that if there was a real problem with getting up, that might mean problems riding ? Taking this broader than just weight - when I damaged my knee I got back on far too soon. It would have been a problem to mount without help. But actually my 'bad' side was very weak, making me unbalanced and making riding somewhat riskier. In hind sight I should have stayed off a bit longer and done some more exercises to strengthen that leg up first.

[HorseDancer]

I have a question for those of you who say you limit the weight of the riders in your schools... do you actually make them step on a scale? I ask because I'm not sure you would know otherwise. I am a heavier rider (not obese but heavier) but I have stood next to someone weighing in a good bit less than myself and have been told that I look like I weigh less. So I'm not sure judging by looks would work.
Being a heavier rider, I say this with the utmost compassion for other heavy people who would like to ride. No, I don't think someone who is truly obese and incapable of managing their weight in balancing should ride.... yet. I do think they should work toward it if they really want to do it by getting some excersize and learning to balance etc. I don't think someone who is 250 pounds is truly obese. I have a friend who is nearing 400 pounds (no joke) and she is truly obese. But then again, she knows it and wouldn't dream of trying something without being ready for it.
I do think the capabilities of horses are underestimated sometimes. This thread is one example. That is not to say that horses should be pushed to the extreme because they might be able to take it. Anyone in or interested in being involved in an equestrian sport needs to exhibit some horse sense (pun intended).
Finally, I do think the sport in general needs to re-think how it views riders. For example, I am plus size but I ride well and I ride lightly but in general someone my size might be put down for it based on looks alone. My plus size doesn't necessarily mean that I am out-of-shape, incapable or anything else and it certainly doesn't mean that I couldn't surpass a rider half my size. Just last week, I rode with someone who has been riding approximately an equal amount of time but she does not have the control over her body so when posting or cantering her butt hits hard in the saddle, she hangs on the horses mouth instead of maintaining her own balance, she weighs approximately 110 pounds and is about 5'5". Let's look at skill, ability and knowledge instead of what that skill, ability and knowledge is packaged in.

[B W]

Wow, what a subject! I believe I read somewhere about weight percentage of rider vs horse but can't remember what it said. Anyway, I'm confident that I fall in there with my own horse. I'm no young thin person myself and I am always respectful of my 15.2h quarter horse. When I mount I use a block and I sit lightly on his back. I don't plop down on him with all my weight. I have asked our barn owner if I'm too heavy for him and she laughs. I know my boss weighs lots more than me and he rides a small QH mare. I really feel sorry for her because he plops on her back. But she's his favorite horse and she has a good life. Even though I would like to shed about 30lbs I'm not going to stop riding because I'm overweight unless I know I'm hurting my horse. As for people who are truly obese, I would suggest they be very careful. Last weekend a girl who has been riding most of her life got on a 5 yr old belgin and plopped down on her back. The horse promptly bucked her off and now she's on crutches. This young girl I would consider obese. She is not agile and I think she got off balance when she mounted. It is really sad. For those who haven't had a weight problem and for those who have had a problem and lost the weight: Be kind. I know that since I have started riding I've lost some weight and toned up. I want to take off some more and I feel that will come in time, but for now I'm loving life on my horse.

[Monty]

I think that was probably the best post yet Horse Dancer, on this subject.Sensible and sensitive.I'll say Amen to that.

[KarinUS]

Let's look at skill, ability and knowledge instead of what that skill, ability and knowledge is packaged in.

I don't think it's that easy either. That would mean we want to exclude heavier adult BEGINNERS. I am an adult beginner (not super heavy for my height though- 5'10"-140lbs=10 stones) and I've waited 20 years to be able to take lessons. I couldn't offer you skill, ability, and knowledge, if you put a gun to my head. You have to begin somewhere...
BTW: Since I started riding 18 months ago, I've lost 20 pounds. I used to be 160lbs (11 1/2 stones).
I strongly believe that there's got to be a stout horse that could accommodate even a relatively heavy unskilled rider.

[HorseDancer]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by KarinUS
[B]

I don't think it's that easy either. That would mean we want to exclude heavier adult BEGINNERS.


Yes, I believe it is that easy. In other words, let's not discount riders based on how they appear. So you're a beginner, so what? You're learning and that is what someone should see. The truth is that someone who is heavier who is a beginner is probably going to tone up and slim down somewhat. But we all, whether gifted with a slim waist or blessed with a bountiful butt, should not face any kind of prejudice in an equestrian sport based on our appearance. It shouldn't be, "wow look at her belly", it should be "wow look at how soft her hands are" or "how lightly he returns in the saddle when posting". Or possibly in your or another beginner's case it should be, "look at how she's improved since last week". But again, there has to be some sense to it. My friend of near 400 pounds would not attempt riding nor would I encourage it, UNLESS she was serious enough to help her situation first. She would need to lose some weight and gain muscle control first so as not to harm the horses or herself. But she could do a lot with horses from the ground level that would help her begin to learn and get her off the couch and out of the cookie jar and I would be the first in line to defend her should anyone make the mistake of saying she should not be in this sport because of her weight.
This sport should not be based on appearance and ANYONE with a desire should be encouraged to participate but be sensible. If you see someone who is truly obese and in danger of hurting the horse or themselves because of their weight then be kind in suggesting a different route of entering the equestrian world but don't discount them.

[KarinUS]

I don't think we disagree as much as you might think... :)
My point was that skill shouldn't be the only factor either. There's more to consider and from reading your last post, I think we feel very much alike about this.
As for 400lbs, there certainly would be a lot of other problems that would have to be addressed before ANY sport could be attempted, much less riding...

Peace! :)

[equinechikk]

As a heavy rider myself, I can definitly sympathize with very heavy people who would like to ride. However, I do feel that the line has to be drawn somewhere. Your adverage horses weighs a little over 1000 pounds, in my opinion a 400 pound rider should never get on your adverage horse, no matter how fit or toned they are. If you relate your horse to a 100 pound person, the equilient would be that they 100 pound person was carring about 40 pounds while jumping and running all over. I can safely say, that no one wants to carry that much weight while doing hard excerize. However, I do think that a toned 400 pound rider might be able to get on a 2000 pound Shire horse or Clysdale, and I would encourage them to do so. It might help them to loose a bit of the weight they put on. I definitly do not weigh 400 lbs, in fact I barely weigh 170, but I am trying to loose weight to stay on my 16hh 1,300 pound Irish Draught Cross. My personal limit for anyone getting on my horse, who has loads of bone is 250 pounds, and I would never let that person jump him. To wrap up this post, I encourage everyone to ride, but I also encourage you to think of it in relation to your weight. Compare yourself with the horse, and think of how you would feel carrying all that weight. It might encourage some people to loose a few pounds.

[ali cat]

weel----i weigh 190 lbs--and tim is a 17.2 full up shire---he's firt and toned and i'm not oo bad a rider--not 'hard' on him or 'heavy handed' so i reckon i'll be ok:) this has been an entertaining and enlightening thread!
good on us for being able to discuss--sometimes heatedly--and still be friends at the end of it

[B W]

This discussion encouraged me to eat a salad today instead of my usual high fat lunch. :D

[cvb]

just to side track a little here

QUOTE "If you relate your horse to a 100 pound person, the equilient would be that they 100 pound person was carring about 40 pounds while jumping and running all over. I can safely say, that no one wants to carry that much weight while doing hard excerize. "

Well tell that to my ex-army partner who was carrying a darn sight more than 40 lbs at his best, even if you consider it in percent terms for his greater weight. Yes he was superfit (swoon, my hero !!).

But isn't that back to the same theme (not the swooning) - that if it is not going to hurt either horse or rider, what's the problem ?

To answer my own question - the problem is defining what will hurt the horse. Well they do normally find some way to let us know. And if they don't, there is normally a bigger problem than overweight riders.

[LindaAd]

I think you are pushing this horse/person analogy too far: surely a horse can carry more in proportion to his own weight than a person. For a start, horses have been bred to carry weight, and they have four legs - better distribution of the weight (Rachel C. explained the physics a few posts ago).

[Charleymouse]

Hi everybody.
I have just read the whole of this thread. I belive this is one of the biggest issues in the riding world. I have read all sides of this thread and I can see everybody's point. Now Im no fewather weight. Im 15-16 y o and weigh 12.9 stones on a gud day. After getting back into Horses a couple of years agoI have lost over a stone and a half (yep, I was over 14 stones aged 14!!!) But im also 5 foot 10 ish and my dad says Im built like a brick outhouse.
I don't want to rile any one by saying this. No one should be made to do anything they don't want to but there has to be a limit to the weight of a rider compared with their ability.
I have lost the weight so I could be kinder on the cobs I ride aswell as the looks I get from the people around me as they see me in full outhouse swing pushing a whopping great wheelbarrow full of crap up a pile!!!
Thanks for taking the time to read this and I hope i didn't upset anyone, if I did, I didn't mean to
:D :D :D

[Ceraptor]

Aaaand...it depends on the type of riding you do as well. For sure, if you're a jockey you'll have to be lightweight and fairly short, but for just for pleasure riding....well, that's another issue.

But being heavy in riding does have its advantages though - er, not really, but this one guy who came for a ride at our stables were wearing a pair of heavy hiking boots which were NOT fit for riding at all. He fell off during a fast canter with one foot still stuck in the stirrups. Fortunately, he was so heavy that the horse couldn't drag him very far.

My opinion? Find the right horse for your size - muscle structure, weight, and height.

[myEllie]

Originally posted by Ceraptor
Fortunately, he was so heavy that the horse couldn't drag him very far.



LOL :p

[Wally]

Charleymouse, you are in good company, but at 12st 9 you are perfectly average! I'm 13st and recently lost over 1st 9lbs to be able to go and ride Heather's horses.

I have a family of Rugby front rows to live up to, so I'm not going to be petite! (my Dad was over 13lbs when he was born!:eek: )

There is not one of our horses that couldn't carry you, not one of them is over 14.2hh at the biggest. Even our 12.2hh Exmoor could.

Find the breed and the type that can do the job and there no reason why folk over 15stone shouldn't ride.

My man is well over 16 stone, I have seen Shetlands of 32 inches drag him for miles, the smallest Shetland is still stronger than any man alive!

[Tina J]

I think you are pushing this horse/person analogy too far: surely a horse can carry more in proportion to his own weight than a person

I think its a very good analogy if you think about it a bit more. Just as you get some petite people who can't carry much, you also get the weight lifters who can shift enormous amounts. But the really strong guys are also tremendously fit, and usually in their prime age-wise. Same with horses. You can get a fit horse, built to shift weight, that can carry much more than an unfit, lightly built horse of the same height. Its a matter of judgement, and also depends on what you are asking the horse to do - a horse that is heavily loaded for its build/age/fitness shouldn't be asked to jump for example! A good instructor at a yard, who knows their horses, their fitness levels and their age, will be able to judge whether a horse is struggling with its rider or not. And I really think fitness, not size is the key here - both for the horse and rider.

I think the only "down" side to being a larger rider is that if you come off, you hit the ground with a bit more of a solid thump! I know I certainly don't bounce as easily as I did when I was younger (and lighter!).

[Princess]

I now this is the opposite to what the thread is about, but can you too small/slim to ride?

I only ask because I am 5'2 and weigh between 5 - 7 stone, but I'm really slim/skinny. An old instructor of mine said that I would never be a good rider because I'm too thin. I do sometimes strugle when riding large (15hh horses) that are quite strong (like stockier breeds) but on smaller ponies I am more than capable.I am quite strong through my back and I can cope well across xc strength wise. Can someone clear it up for me?

My old instructor would never let me ride bigger than 12 - 13hh ponies because he said that I wouldn't be able to cope.

[cvb]

er... even the biggest, tallest, stockiest of riders is going to have problems stopping a horse if they want to do something.

An old instructor of mine was tiny and she rode the most enormous horses. She knew she could and they did not dare argue with her !

However, if you are "out of proportion" with the horse in either direction, you do have to work harder at it.

I am 5'4 and have ridden 15 hands up with no real issue. Sometimes struggle with finer aids cos my legs aren't long enough, but I work around it.

[HorseDancer]

Originally posted by Princess
I now this is the opposite to what the thread is about, but can you too small/slim to ride?

My old instructor would never let me ride bigger than 12 - 13hh ponies because he said that I wouldn't be able to cope.

Ask your old instructor if they have ever been to a horse race or a steeplechase. Jockeys have to be small but guide and ride some of the most powerful horses. True, they only go around a track but there are a lot of intricacies there that the average Joe wouldn't recognize.

[galadriel]

Originally posted by Wally
the smallest Shetland is still stronger than any man alive!

Actually...I stress to all of my students that you MUST have a horse's cooperation; you can't make a horse do something by sheer strength.

Then I got into my first argument with the Shetland; she used to be afraid of the washrack. And found, to my surprise...you know, I'm stronger than she is. (By the way, after 2 weeks of eating her meals on the washrack, she came around.)

[galadriel]

Originally posted by Princess
II do sometimes strugle when riding large (15hh horses) that are quite strong (like stockier breeds) but on smaller ponies I am more than capable.I am quite strong through my back and I can cope well across xc strength wise. Can someone clear it up for me?


It will be more difficult for you to develop the strength to ride a larger horse, particularly one that needs a lot of "help"--but if you have developed it, there is no reason why you can't.

A taller person has a litte more natural "leverage," and I do occasionally worry about my 16.2 mare being able to _feel_ the smaller students' legs--but it can be done, it has been done. I'm working one of my students right now with a lot of work to gain strength in her back so she can balance Duchess to jump a little higher (Duchess is one who needs "help" from her rider)--the student is only 10 and probably not even 5'. I have faith that after working with her for a bit, she WILL be able to do it...she just needs to work REALLY hard to build up her muscles. (I understand that she has been quite sore after her recent lessons...poor kiddo.)

Oh, and of course, she does ride Duchess in her lessons already, and does just fine for her current level.

[Mossy]

Pardon my two pence worth but I don't think its pure height that is the issue. It is more width. If your legs are short or not very muscley a very broad 14.2 native could present a more problems that a narrow 16hh. I have to think laterally sometimes when Moss is feeling cussed but hubby's legs, although shorter than mine are considerably stronger [he used to run marathons!] Relaxing the knee when your hips are at full stretch is easier said than done as well.

[Stella2]

I can declare myself as a relatively heavy rider, although I am confident that I am not too heavy for my 16hh mare. I am also relatively new to riding (10 months) and to date my instructor is always there when I ride. As I mount, she ensures my mare stands still and she puts some weight into the right stirrup. As I move toward a time when I can ride without such a lot of supervision, I wonder how relatively heavy - heavy riders, go about mounting without someone to put some weight into the right stirrup - is the saddle likely to slip if the rider is not agile enough to mount up in a second?

Ann

[KarinUS]

I think most places I rode at will want you to mount from a mounting block no matter how light or agile you are. It's just the responsible thing to do. On the odd occassion when I am somewhere without a block I can hop on from the ground, but it's better to save the horses back by using the block... :)

If nobody counterbalances the saddle while you mount, it is possible to pull the saddle to the side and you'll have to put your weight in the right stirrup to straighten it out again.

[cvb]

The theory is that you should be able to mount by yourself so that if something happens while you are riding out, you can get off and on again.

So some schools insist you practise this skill everytime. Personally I don't see the point in twisting my back, my saddle and my horse's back just in case there is not a convenient rock or hill or whatever when I am out. I'll walk the whole way home if need be !

[BoN^kErS]

i have been riding since last year jan to july and i've stoped for over a year before i started riding again. about 3 months ago.

i weigh 84kg and 165 tall and i have lost weight since last year while i was riding.
horse riding was my favourite thing to do and i put myself through excerise to lose weight just to ride...

i still am trying to loose weight to ride and i wonder what kind of hand a horse can i ride?
will be turning 18 in july and still at 84kg at the moment trying to loose more to ride.

BoN^kErS

[Casper]

Very interesting. It turns out we are not burning as much calories as we think when riding!!! For example mucking out for 15 mins only burns 130 cals. the equivalent to one packet of lite chrisps or a bowl of corn flakes with semi-milk!!! And trotting for 30 mins. burns 186 cols. thats the equivalent to a bar of Turkish Delight that I'd eat on my way back from a hack:( and heres me wondering where I was going wrong!!!

[KarinUS]

Surely there must be a difference on what horse you are riding, etc. Trotting on a QH in kind of a jog or a TB in more active trot...
30 minutes trotting burns less than 200 calories? :(
That's a bummer. I guess I better start eating those carrots myself instead of feeding them to my horse! ;)

[Tina J]

I've worn a heart rate monitor while riding sometimes out of interest (husband is a keen racing cyclist and heavily into serious training so I've picked up stuff from him). A lunge lesson is a level two/three workout. Riding my TB is mainly level two (hacking) but with level three moments! Riding my friends cob barely gets me into level two even at a canter. So it does depend what you're doing and what you're riding. The "levels" one, two and three are calculated according to how close to your maximum heart rate you are working, with age taken into account, but basically level one is equivalent to going for a walk (you still have breath to talk), level two is jogging (you can talk, but in short bursts and you're puffing a bit) and level three has you puffing so much you are just focused on what you are doing and nothing else.

As for mucking out - whatever the article said, I usually put on a pound or two when my horse gets turned out for the summer and the mucking out stops. All I can think is that the writer had a clean horse and didn't have the time pressure of getting done before work!

[LindaAd]

Originally posted by anndunk
I wonder how relatively heavy - heavy riders, go about mounting without someone to put some weight into the right stirrup - is the saddle likely to slip if the rider is not agile enough to mount up in a second?

Ann [/B]

Yes, it is, Anndunk, especially if the horse is a fat and cobby type;)
I mount from a block, and I still have to think myself into the saddle pretty fast, or it slips. I think the secret is to put your hand in the middle of the seat - never on the cantle - and lean well forward as you go up....

[jizzmunkee]

Bloody hell! Touchy subject. After reading all the posts on this subject, i just had to interfere. Or join in.

I've just started riding again (well in january actually) after a 7 year break, and i am a fat git -16st (224lb) to be precise. Now i actually didn't think that , at my riding school, there would be any horses that could carry me. Bear in mind this is a school which has a general limit of 13st.Go figure. As it turns out, my trusty 16'3hh hunk of muscle steed can. Now i must admit that i do feel guilty getting on him, and i am slowly losing weight to help alleviate the issue, but neither the owner of the yard (top eventer by the way), nor any instrusctor has told me to pack in, so surely it can't be that much of an problem. They simply say that it is really about the horses bones-if they have good bones (leg wise), they can carry weight. Good job my nag has a good 9 or 10 inches of cannon bone!! And may i add, that he is just as keen to canter / jump / hack with me on him as he is with a lighter rider. So there :p

Behold the fat git of the riding world!! :p

God i wish i could see the shock horror faces of you all..... :eek:

[LindaAd]

Well done, jizzmunkee - keep it up, and don't feel guilty: the instructor or the horse would soon tell you if you were too heavy!

Don't be brainwashed by the body police;) :D

[Stella2]

LindaAd,
The hand in the middle of the saddle really makes sense. I'm not sure I understand why leaning well forward would help !

ANN

[Brad]

well i hav had some experience of this topic which i would like to share with you.

i am 12 stone and male who lives to ride. however at my stables i am limited to very few horses, i realise that i have a problem weight wise, however when i was a my heavest peak i was nearly 14.5 stones . im 17 years old, and the stables which i ride is full mainly of cobby type horses, which i personally think could carry much more than 11 stone which is their weight limit. however the problem i encountered is that when i was asked to be weight i was laughed at by my riding instructor (who obviously didnt know who cruel he was,and clearly has no idea what the word diet means as he only weighs about 7 stones!).
i am not saying that 'large' people should/not ride however peoples AND horses feelings must be taken into account.

another way of looking at it is this a 16hh cob has a better chance of givng a large person (13_18 stones) than a fine horse




thankyou

[LindaAd]

Brad, I don't think 12 stone is very heavy for a bloke - how tall are you? I hope you found a different instructor - that one who laughed at you is clearly in the wrong job.

anndunk - what I mean by leaning forward is that you lean over the saddle, so that the weight of your head is on the far side, not the side you're mounting from... does that make sense?

[jizzmunkee]

I'd love to be 12 stone!!! And o do take my steeds feelings into account-i always apologise when i see him. Saying that though, he might be going out on loan to give him a rest <snivvle sob>, which means i'll be on a 15hh built like a brick ****house.
I need a tissue :( (only joking)

[HorseDancer]

After reading all the posts and the ones that have been posted since my last post, I have to say that what I'm seeing is that the "skinny" riders are outnumbered by us "heavy" riders. I don't know if that's true but it seems that people would take a look at the numbers. Statistically there are more people in the world who are overweight. Wouldn't it stand to reason that there would be more overweight riders as well?
Today's breeders are breeding for traits of the heartiest horses. Those who can withstand enormous amounts of strenuous activity. Does anyone know what horses of the "olden" days used to go through weight wise? Think of horses used to carry knights. The armor alone weighed in at approximately 100 lbs. or more right, never mind the man who wore it. Ok, so they may have had draft blood, you can't tell me it wasn't strenuous to the horse to carry that weight and be ridden hard into battle. What about the horses who pulled covered wagons to the western territories in the US? They lugged families and their entire households, furniture, cast iron cookery and sometimes even the cast iron stove if the family didn't want to leave it behind. Horses have been used throughout history to do a number of chores quite successfully and today we're going to have a conflict over the weight of a rider?

[jizzmunkee]

touché horsedancer! :p

[HAYLEY GITTOES]

I dont know about you, but i'm fed up of this subject everytime you go in this site this is whats to read.

I am not a light rider or a heavy rider i am in the middle, although i am not a heavy rider i wouldn't go for a arab/tb type of horse, my horse is a fell cross and she carries me fine, if she didn't she wouldn't let me on her.

[BoN^kErS]

i kinda posted a question that i really need to know... i'm 165 tall and weight 84kg (don't know how to count in stones though) and was wondering what height of horse is suitable for me to ride.

currently i think i'm riding a 16hh?.. not really sure maybe i should ask my instructor but his really taller than me and i can't really see over his back unless i tip toe.

as for mounting i don't really have a problem as i do it from the mounting block. an advice i was given was that when mounting and u need weight to be supported on the right side, i always hold the other side of the saddle flap to lift myself into the seat sort of like preventing my weight to be put on the left side of the saddle to allow it to tip.

help??!!

BoN^kErS

[Katie_85]

It's not th4e height, it's the bone. If the horse has substantial bone he should carry you fine. :)


I agee with Hayley, no use "beating a dead horse" (sorry) this topic is getting really old.

[virtuallyhorses]

http://www.worldzone.net/recreation/virtuallyhorses/files/nice_trot3.jpg .....Another fat git torturing a horse

:D

My sister and I would never have been able to start riding and enjoy this fabulous pastime if everyone stuck to some of the limits that have been posted here. None of the school horses (all thoroughbreds) have had any problems - and my horse doesn't seem to be in the least bit slowed down by my current weight.

I would also like to add that like so many other 'heavies' here, riding and looking after a horse are excellent ways to get more exercise (and reduce weight) and on women's side - a fat woman often weighs no more than a fit man due to the differential between muscle and fat weights (ok now I'm just stirring...)

[Saffron]

Funny - I've never thought much about this subject. I suppose it comes down to individual assessment. Throughout this discussion there's been a really reasonable thread - there's big and there's big. meaning- big, and competent, and fairly athletic, as opposed to massive with a great deal of body fat.
liberty - asking a question is not offensive, it wasn't a personal vendetta against you or any other overweight people. it's about being fair and considerate to the horse and looking after his health and not handicapping him so that he has no chance of performing well or longevity. he can't tell us 'hey, i shouldn't be carrying this much weight,' we have to constantly be questioning ourselves on these subjects. And if we don't know, or we're not sure, we should ask. isn't that what a forum such as this is about?

By the way, hi VirtuallyHorses, i know you from Horse Trainer Network. You are not fat! :)

Have a question - my fiance is an American football player. he weighs 20 stone, or about 280 lbs and is 6'1 He isn't fat, and is pretty fit. he's keen to learn to ride so we can do it together. I'm buying a 15.2 hh Anglo-Arab for me which he obviously shouldn't ride, but does anyone have any suggestions about breeds we could be on the lookout for so eventually we can enjoy this hobby together? Maybe Clydesdale xs or.... any suggestions would be appreciated.

[KarinUS]

I got more reminder emails saying there were new replies to "Heavy Riders" and for some reason the LampChop song came to mind. Now it's in my head and I can't get rid of it! It's all your fault!
This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because... :eek:

[Tina J]

Saffron, someone on this site from the US (can't remember what he is called, sorry, hope he sees this) who is over 6 feet, bought a Belgian horse. He posted some pictures of the horse, who is about 18 hands, and he looked gorgeous (the horse that is, don't recall if the bloke was in the picture). Certainly up to carrying a big man and looking good while doing so.

[chev]

What an interesting thread! And it kind of answers a question I posted earlier as to whether I was too heavy to back a pony, wish I'd found it earlier! There is another angle to the weight thing. I'm 5'5 and weigh 8 stone (about 112 pounds), sometimes less. I don't consiously keep my weight down, in fact I eat like a pig most of the time. I find trying to ride bigger horses quite hard. I had a 15.1hh heavy cob mare who barely noticed I was there most of the time and I had to work pretty hard to get her to listen. My (heavier) friend had no problem. I find ponies far easier to communicate with and I'm certain it's because they are more aware of my presence! I normally ride a 13.1hh section C, but also occasionally my kids' ponies, a 12.2 "native" and an 11.2hh section A, who have no hassle carrying me at all. As far as I can see, if an 11.2hh Welsh Mountain has no problem with my weight, surely a (far) bigger horse like the 16.3 Warmblood types wouldn't have a problem with a heavier rider? I think the other thing on the subject of overweight novices is that they are unlikely to be riding as regularly as more advanced riders, and those heavier riders who own a horse are most likely skilled enough to carry themselves lightly anyway. Thanks for such a lively and interesting debate!

[Katie_85]

Thanks Karin. Truly. :D

[BoN^kErS]

Saffron- don't get stallions or arabs get a quiet horse who is big enough to carry...

i never ridden a belgian or drought horses before i wonder how they feel like? but i have sat a carridge pulled by then before... do they need a bigger saddle and a girth, bigger bridle to fit their faces? that always makes me wonder... any ideas?

how do heavy riders carry themselves lightly?? i wonder how to carry myself lightly when cantering and not flying all over the place, i've tried following my horse when cantering into the beat but i tend to sometimes get off beat and start bouncing everywhere in the seat untill i get my footing right..

BoN^kErS

[virtuallyhorses]

Cheers Saffron - you've made my day :D Its a bit scarey being 'known' :cool:

I may not be 'fat' but I am actually over the 13 stone weight limit that they're talking about in some of these - I used to be a body builder so even when I am at 10% bodyfat (that's competition weight) according to the height\weight charts in the average GP's office I am FAT - hence the post about the muscle vs fat thing...

I see there's a few kiwis here too - just like the heavy-weight British horses, we have 'station bred' horses. These are usually Clydesdale-thoroughbred crosses used on the high country stations (large farms).

A farmer (often not a small bloke) will frequently have to throw a wet and exhausted sheep across the front of his horse when mustering - so they are carrying a 90kg man + 70kg ewe (more with wet fleece) + gear - up and down mountains....

enough said I think, I'll move on elsewhere - see ya 'round



;)

[sarahh]

would just like to say that i started riding as a huge woman mountain about 3 years ago, i asked the stables if there was a horse big enough to carry me - and got the biggest horse i'd ever seen. the stables said if she could carry an 18st man all day she could carry me (similar weight) for a half hour lesson walking round the school. and guess what she didn't collapse.

i have really struggled to get my weight down, i lost about 6 stone but am still just over 12stone, but at least there is muscle rather than just fat in my legs now. i'm about 5' 5" (very short legs) so the horses that suit my weight do tend to not be the ones that suit my short legs - i have awful trouble getting on the 17 hands i normally ride. i ride at a stables where there are a lot of adult beginners (we're the fat scaredy cats) so there are far more very big horses than i guess is normally the case.

but i rode the most brilliant horse at the weekend, a young short legged muscular cob - (apparently about 15 hands) obviously strong enough to carry me but low enough that i could get on without a struggle (my incredibly patient instructor always holds the other side of the saddle and i am banned from getting on on my own because it is such a struggle trying to get my foot into the stirrup even with a block, they are worried that the horse will go off with me falling off the block).

anyway just wanted to say that horses like people do come in all shapes and sizes, it is just finding a good match that matters, but that if both horse and rider are fit it obviously helps.

[Peace]

Wow, sarahh, congratulations on losing all that weight! Did riding inspire you to do it, or did you take up riding to help you lose the weight? What an amazing accomplishment!

[walking polo!]

hi.
at my local riding stables we have a 14 stone limet, the owner of the yard and the very person who made that rule says it is unfair to ban some one from riding at the yard cos of wiat but who would we put them on? we have one 16.2 hh hunter tyep and one 17.2 hh hunter typ the first is slow and would suit the novice but the second is a loony so what would they progrese on to? when you start you have the slowest one and you move up step by step no one can safly go from slow calm horse to a complet loony! so what do we do?
i do think the an 18 st girl on a 16 hh hunter/hack tyep horse is unfair.i DO NOT think that no one over 14 stone should ride as long as the horse is well with in it's whiat limet when being riden.
i have to say that i write this as a 9 1/2 st "GB" size 10-12 but even i get conserned that that my 14.1 hh dales X might strugal even thought i know she is well capable of caring me.
i think if you are a larger rider then you should try your best to lose some wait for your horses sake but i do not think that unless you are v.larg you should be at all put of riding provided the horse can cary you well.
lets face it no matter what you size couler sex or hight there should be only one thing that matters and that is the horse, if he/she is happy healthy and comfy then there is know problem!

[equinechikk]

I was wondering if anyone could define what they consider to be 'very large', i know this varies from place to place, but what is considered very large?
I also often wonder if i'm to heavy for my irish draught X 15.3 gelding. He has loads of bone and is very stocky and well built. I'm around 170 lbs, but I've been riding for a long time and I'm only a little bit unfit. He's always lazy, and so I'm wondering if that means I'm too heavy? however, even when my 120lbs friend gets on him, he's still incredably lazy, in fact he moves more for me, but does that mean he just knows me? The point of this post is, do u think I'm hurting my horse?

[LindaAd]

By my reckoning, you're just over 12 stone equinechikk. I'd have thought he'd carry you easily.

[HorseDancer]

equinechikk - lots of horses appear lazy no matter what rider they have on them. The fact that he moves off better for you probably indicates that you have learned what aids to use to move him and he has learned what you expect from certain aids. Without knowing more, I would take a guess that perhaps he isn't quite as engaged in the hind end as he could be which tnds to make a horse seem to just plod along. If you get him to engage, you will probably find that he moves out a bit better. I don't know, this was just my first thought after reading your post. As to your weight, I would say that you are definately not too heavy for him and I say RIDE ON!

[Catbaloo]

You are right in asking a simple question, and I hope you do get your answer, buy there are people out there that weigh less but to a horse can have the affect of weighing a lot more. I believe horses can carry more than we think they can, but for our own piece of mind we dont ask them to. I was once told if the horses bum was as big as yours he can carry you !!!! dont know if that is true or not. I have also been told that if you mount a horse from the floor and he has to cross he's legs to counter act your weight, you a proberly to heavey from him. Just for information now. The Queens house hold calvary horses carry in excess of 18st when in full parade out fit. Also some people may look heavier than they are and visaversa.

[tarkia]

I think that people who are overweight shouldn't ride, full stop. One it puts a lot of stain on the ponies back and two it is cruel. I have saw it a lot of times in the farm were I ride at for example... once at the end of my lesson when I was walking out of the indoor, I was talking to my friend and watching a little of the next lesson too. There was a small bay pony, he must have been just about 12hh and I'd never seen him before so I just though he was new. Everyone was on their horses and walking around the indoor except this pony who was being held by the instructor, I asked her if she wanted me to take him to a spare stable out of her way and she said that his owner was coming in a miniute so I just carried on talking to my friend. The indoor door opened and in came a very large woman she must have been at least 15 stone, I thought that she must have just been asking the instructor something but she walked staight up to the little pony shouting 'hello my little pumpkin'. My friend and I just thought she was being friendly to the pony and we didn't think anything of it until she pulled down the stirrups... she put her foot in and lept up and put her full weight into the stirrup and then she said to the instuctor 'has he been a good little pumpkin' finally she swung her leg over his back and heavily sat down into the saddle. In fact to proove that she was overweight, she couldnt even fit into the saddle and half of her fat was hanging over the back of the saddle. When she ajusted the stirrupd to her correct length her foot was right down to the ponies knee. I can't imagine what kind of pain that poor little pony must have been in. Please if you think and look overweight then please don't ride as it is very easy to loose weight as my mum has done in a month. If you REALLY love horses then surely you would want to be kind to them and not want to make them carry a lot. How would you feel if you had to carry something that is a LOT bigger than you? Please don't be cruel to horses...

[Stella2]

Oh Tarkia, I agree that a 15 stone rider should not ride a 14hh pony, but god girl, you show a terrible lack of insight. I can only assume you are a young child.

Ann

[Katie_85]

Now I will post. Tarkia, I wish you could come to some of our shows here. Men weighing well over 250 ride gaited horses with buildups. If you have never seen these it requires a lot of strength on the horses part to put on a fire. These horses, most 15-16 hh with large men on their backs float . It is unbelievable. 15s is 210 lbs. That is by no means unreasonable. I am fat. This is not something I make an attempt at hiding. What's the point? Today I rode a 14.2 or 14.3hh TW mare. And she's a toothpick! I rode Saddleseat today, this horse is so narrow that if you step to hard on one stirrup your saddle slides 3 inches. This horse carried me beautifully. All gaites. I have spent an hour on her back and she barely breaks a sweat. Once again, this horse doesn't clear 15hh. I also rode two other TW mares today. Neither of them are 15hh. (Well, maybe, but not by much!) Stockier yes, but the height was the same. They each carried me like I was nothin at all. The canter on one was so beautiffully smoooooth, I didn't move. I don't know what you guys ride on your side of the pond, but here, we breed em' to carry! And lemme tell ya, they carry!

[Charleymouse]

I've just had a very wierd thought.
Did you know that in the medievil(?) times, jousting horses and other pony's had to carry thier owners and about 200pounds in armour about and they still managed it! maybe its because we are more considerate of horses know that we can actually underestimate their weight carrying abilities. Just a thought!!!!!:D :D

[Alwin van Egmond]

Yes

but those knights rode friesians for example weighing 1500 pounds, and they can easily manage.

Alwin

[sarahh]

thanks peace!

re why did i lose so much weight - well i always wanted to ride, but never had the time and thought i was too fat for any horse.

looking back i equated horse with small pony, i didn't realise how big some horses really are. i moved house 3 years ago, and for the first time ever i had a sportscentre/gym next door and a very large riding stables a short car drive away. so no more excuses for being fat. i enrolled in the gym (they confessed a long time after they were terrified of me collapsing!) and after i'd got a bit fitter in a month (the flab just fell off!), decided to do the deed and try horse riding. i lost 4 stone to start with, in a gym/horse riding combination, and then after i fell off a very big horse (am not very good with heights but i think about 16-17 hands) as i hit the ground i thought it would not have hurt so much if i had been lighter. so i joined weight watchers and lost another couple of stone.

i also wanted to be able to ride smaller horses, but i am now realising that the stables initially put me on horses that suit my ability, ie they are large but they won't rush off with me.

i have to say also that i am really lucky to ride at a stables that has around 100 horses and ponies, so they cater for the tinies as wel as the biggies. i have ridden about 11 horses while there, only one of which i was v scared of (i don't like rushy horses!), the others were gentle calm giants. at the moment there is a new horse at the stables, fast becoming my favourite short legged cob which really suits me fine and made me realise there is a horse to suit most people, and i don't have to ride enormous horses all the time!

i liked the comment about if the horse's bum is bigger than yours it should be able to carry you - judging from the enormous derrieries i get put on, i think this sounds a good rule of thumb.

also i think it is nice to feel that your horse will carry you easily. i have ridden a horse straight after another person so i was worried about the horse being tired, and when i asked if it was ok i was told that the previous person weighed about half my weight (teenager) and the horse had just wandered about in the middle of the school, so it certainly hadn't been exerted and would definitely be able to do a lesson with me fine (and she did).

[camel]

Hi Sarah - where do you ride? it sounds a great (non fattist!) place.

Surely the rule of thumb should be .......... Big fat riders + Big fit, strong horses = no problems!!!

I am one of those disgusting horse crippling 'hugely obese' riders (about 280ibs) :eek: :eek: :p and wouldn't dream of riding a horse unless I was confident it was happy and comfortable carrying me - (shire/shirex/clydes etc) If I am going to go to the trouble of riding I obviously have some passion for horses and am not going to want to hurt one!!!!

In reply to the original post, I think the instructor is more capable than you (with respect) of judging whether the big fat alien 18stone heffalump was going to murder the RS horse she was attempting to haul her sorry ass onto!!! :) :)

Loving this topic ....

The camel

[benslieblue]

I am about 15 stone and got 16.2 clydesdale, I chose him not for his weight but for temprament. I think common sense has to prevail with this issue. I am a helluva lot fitter than I was before I got my horse but will never be a size 10
and thats what I concentrate on being fitter.
weight is a very sensitive issue and can be taken so personally and its a fine line. I am happy plodding about and thats what I got him for, dont do jumping or galloping. My choice only.
I use a mounting block (so does my friend and she size 12) because I always believe its easier on horses back.

[sassy210605]

my ri wanted to let her daughter ride my 14.1 pony she has to weigh abut 13 stone i said id rather ride him and dint give a reason but i think that would be too much for him hes a middle weight and carries me easily but i weigh 9 stone

[Sarah-B]

OK, as a fattie this is a topic close to my heart but I must confess I haven't read every post as I don't have the time - I would still like to add my thoughts....

I weigh just OVER 18 stones and although I accept that the original poster has a valid question I do object to the tone she uses, it gives the impression that this lady is some sort of a freak and I feel calling her "fat" instead of a more gentle term is pretty offensive too.

As for whether it is "selfish" or "cruel" to ride when you are "fat" - well it depends on the horse. As a large rider I am limited in what I can ride but not as much as you think - I have had the following carry me with no trouble:

15HH CB X - I owned him for 12yrs
17HH hunter type
16HH Clydie X Cob
17.1HH Suffolk Punch - my gorgeous TC....

Now I felt happiest on the Clydie X and TC (my Suffolk) both of whom weigh a good deal more than 1000lb (TC is almost 2000lb - which means going on the 20% basis he can carry 27st or 378lb!!)

Fat/overweight/obese/voluptuous people (or whatever you want to call them) CAN ride they just have to use their common sense when choosing their mount.

I also agree that saddle fit is even more important when involving a heavy rider which is why I ended up paying more for my saddle than I did for my horse!!

What makes me angry is fatist and derogatory comments regarding us bigger riders - it makes my blood boil and IMO is no better than racism, homophobia, etc.....

I am aware you are probably thinking that if this sort of thing offends us then why don't us fatties just stop eating so much? Most obese people have a very, very complex relationship with food akin to any other (more "acceptable") addictions (i.e alcohol/nicotine/drugs) - an eating disorder is probably one of the hardest things to overcome - try telling an alcoholic/drug addict they can have a small amount of whisky/heroin each day and see how long they stay on the wagon - overeaters can't just cut food out entirely and go "cold turkey"!!

The reliance on food is often caught up with complex psychological issues and such people DO NOT NEED others l