Crap TB Feet

[Yann]

Can be fixed :) Still a long way to go but until you look back at old pictures you don't realise how far you've come.

From this

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y177/YMatthews/Picture001.jpg

And this

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y177/YMatthews/Picture021.jpg

To this

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y177/YMatthews/Picture016.jpg

[laura jeanne]

That looks like amazing progress Yann. I don't know much about it, but the first pictures have awfully long toes!

[Tots N Dots]

WOW! that is one heck of a difference, good on you for sticking at it :D

[Shadowlark]

Wonderful photos Yan - thank you for sharing :)

[teabiscuit]

they look much better now, how did you do it?

[Yann]

Simply by taking the shoes off, having the feet trimmed to keep flare to a minimum (you can't just whack it all off in one go for obvious reasons) and working her in hoof boots and foam pads. Her soles, which were flat or slightly convex on her forefeet have started developing concavity. I knew it should work in theory but seeing it actually happen is still very satisfying :)

[Bobbin]

Are they Tess's feet? They look great.

I must take a pic of Brys little feet they are soooo nice now.

xx

[teabiscuit]

very satisfying indeed :)

do you feed a hoof supplement Yann?

[capalldubh]

working her in hoof boots and foam pads. Her soles, which were flat or slightly convex on her forefeet have started developing concavity. I knew it should work in theory but seeing it actually happen is still very satisfying

Ooh, we had our first walk in boots and pads today - I am very hopeful now! JAckson's are only 1/2 tb feet, but 100% awful (well the backs ones anyway) - not so much the flare, but the heels are terrible and in completely the wrong place. I did think as we were walking out - "how can 20 mins along the road in these boots make any difference?" - but it sounds like it might work! How long did it take for you to go from first pics to second pics? :)

[Yann]

do you feed a hoof supplement Yann?

I feed the obligatory barefooter's non cereal, low sugar, fibre diet which includes calmag and topspec antilam balancer amongst other things.

How long did it take for you to go from first pics to second pics?

7 months :) Working in pads stimulates the whole foot, and as it gets stronger things can start to straighten out with good trimming. Under an EP you might be doing a lot of hand walking as the system limits what work the horse does according to a condition score on the feet, other approaches suggest that you get the horse comfortable and then work it as much as it can manage. Tess (it is she :) ) had a few weeks off to start with, then a month not ridden over Christmas at the suggestion of my previous trimmer but has been in full work the rest of the time. Hoof boots are necessary out hacking (though I did have to take them off yesterday part way round and she was OK) but she's fine in the school and on grass without them.

Would be interested to see some pics of Bry's feet :)

[capalldubh]

Under an EP you might be doing a lot of hand walking as the system limits what work the horse does according to a condition score on the feet,

Yup, we're on a 3 (2.8 for the abscess foot) :rolleyes: Apparently the frogs are nice... (which I think is a tactful way of saying everything else is c**p).

Until I got the boots, I walked him out in hand without, but we have virtually no growth, so I think the handwalking was wearing it off as fast as it grew. His feet improved miraculously when the ground froze for about 4 days a few weeks ago - I think it may have been the equivalent of hard walking for 24 hours a day for 4 days...

I must do piccies and get some feedback (and also so I can have before and after shots - I know EP got good shots at Christmas when the shoes came off).

I have to admit to sneakily riding in the field, tho - but as he is virtually unridden it mainly involves training him to stand beside a wall while I hop on bareback and then sit there for 5 mins while he grazes...

[martini55]

Fantastic pictures Yann, such an improvement!:)

[Jaimee]

Yay, Yann!

Good job!

My TB is coming along too, have just grown out the last of the detatched hoof wall and got concavity!

Can we see pictures of your BF TB?

[hackedoff]

How satisfying Yann, well done you. That horse must be so much more comfortable....

[Laura+Phantom]

Wow the difference is amazing, well done!

[Nik-n-Kia]

WoW!!!

How good do those toes look!!!!! Well done Yann!!!!

The top one looked like a nicer version of what my previous farrier did to Kia's feet and made him very very lame!!!!

Nice transformation!!!!

Nikki xxxxx

[joey_olop]

Wow-great job you must be really proud :)

[Yann]

The daft thing is she was perfectly happy and completely sound with those feet, but I knew there was no guarantee that was going to continue to be the case long term.

I think all the credit goes to Tess herself and the trimmers who sorted her out :) They're still a work in progress, I think it may be quite some time before she's hacking out happily over everything without her boots, but I've no doubt we'll manage it eventually :)

[liz_whippy]

These are my TBs feet when I bought him then about a year later

http://www.horses-say-neigh.co.uk/whippy%20feet.jpg

[Yann]

Wow, that's an even bigger transformation :)

[liz_whippy]

Yes his feet were very poor when I bought him. I took his shoes out straight away and rode him in boots, his feet are now rock hard. I still use hoof boots when I'm doing a lot of road work but he copes fine without them now. Theres definitely hope out there yet for crap TB feet :)

[Giveitago]

Yann et all,

I need some advice,

What was your reasoning to remove his shoes in the first place.

My Tbx had really long, bad feet 3 years ago. He has been shod well and is doing well in his NB shoes with a nice foot now.

I saw the farrier on Saturday, and due to your thread asked about the possibility of trying to go barefoot. Farrier says, we could 'giveitago' but didnt look particularly keen on the idea. I felt he may have been humouring me a little. He suggested taking the hinds off first, see how we go with boots on for a while, possibly leave it until the mud clears a bit before we start.

Can you let me know a little more detail about how to go about this change, riding, feed, timescales etc. I have a mixture of terrain, the field is quite flinty and some of the hacking is roadwork or gravel. I really dont want Harry to have a painful nightmare just to satisfy my curiousity for au Natural.

I'm a little nervous to rock the boat as he is in good condition at the mo.

[Yann]

It's way too big a question to possibly answer in one post, but the short of it is that it can be much quicker and easier to get a healthy foot under the horse by not shoeing it. Shoes provide protection against wear but they also restrict the natural function of the foot, and not having wear means the foot may also grow unevenly, and becomes increasingly unbalanced through the shoeing cycle.

The fact the foot is restricted in a shoe also means that it recieves less stimulus and the internal structures adapt accordingly and may become weaker and softer. Often a young horse that was fine over everything before its first set of shoes isn't any more a few years later.

Tess's feet were very weak and would have caused problems for her long term soundness if they'd been left like they were. My farrier said he couldn't do much with them, and he was quite possibly right, it's really difficult to do much with feet like they were in shoes as there's so little to work with and the problems mainly stemmed from shoeing anyway.

It's a cliche but there's a lot more to it than just pulling the shoes and trimming the feet, and there is a genuine difference between the service and advice that a specialist trimmer can offer compared to many farriers, it's just not their main area of expertise. There's tons of information on the web and even on this message board, so read widely. It's not cheap and sometimes it isn't easy or even feasible, but it's certainly there as an option.

[Scarlett 001]

Nice results, feet look great.

Just wondering how her feet got quite so bad, as even if you aren't a fan of shoeing (which I know you aren't), they still look particularly bad in the first picture. Even if she has inherently weaker, problem hooves, the angles are all wrong. Did you have a good farrier working on her and nothing would work, or did you inherit her with those feet and she had poor previous farrier care? Just curious as those are not good hooves by any standards (shod or barefoot - trimmers or farriers would both be concerned). The angles are not good, so no wonder they were a mess and were so weak. Don't know the history of when you got your horse, so just wondering.

[Shadowlark]

All good question Scarlett!

[Yann]

What you can see there is the result of one careless shoeing, and shows how quickly things can go wrong in this type of foot. The farrier in her previous home was clearly doing a competent job, even the vet commented how good they looked for a Tb at the vetting. She did have completely flat soles and underrun heels though.

After she arrived with us I arranged to have her redone by my former farrier after 5-6 weeks, but his first comment when he saw her was 'oh dear can't do anything with those feet' and he pretty much just stuck a shoe back on without addressing very much else at all. Changes of diet and routine can also make the feet go awry, so this may also have been a factor in them deteriorating so quickly. I hadn't planned to do anything on the barefoot front immediately, my plan was just for us to have fun and get to know each other for the summer, but after that my mind was made up. He is actually one of the better farriers in our area, so there was not much point persisting.

even if you aren't a fan of shoeing (which I know you aren't)

I suspect you misunderstand me slightly - I've got no problems at with shoeing done well, and if circumstances dictated and I had access to a really good farrier then I would be happy to shoe my horses to keep them comfortable and working. They would always get a few months unshod every year though. I do think people need to be more clued up generally about their horses feet though, and aware of some of the limitations and issues that can arise with them :) The problem is that when you've seen what a difference losing the shoes can make you tend to get enthusiastic about it :D

[Scarlett 001]

Yann, that does indeed explain the condition of those feet. Thanks - I was kind of curious. I can say that even the (in hindsight) mediocre farriers I've worked with would be concerned with those hooves, and my new, good NB farrier would be positively alarmed at those feet. Guess the situation you found yourself in did force your hand to give barefoot a try. So glad it worked and made your girl healthier.

[Hero]

T.L.H.C

Tender
Loving
Hoof
Care
:p



Wow
what a difference!