treeless for ponies

[rubysmum]

our 12.2 welsh[ish] pony needs a new saddle - as we probably wont have him for more that another 6 months [child getting too big] am wondering about geting treeless which the child could then use of next pony - could that work & does anyone know much about treeless & ponies & can i pick up a 2nd hand one or not:confused: :confused: :confused:

[Showjumper]

Worth a go :)

www.freewebs.com/alternativehorse is my website which lists all the available treeless saddles.

[doris]

Depends on the amount you are prepared to pay. Many of the more expensive saddles - Freeform for instance £800'ish, will let you email photos of your horse/pony from various angles for suitability. Some distributors allow you to borrow a saddle for a trial period, and will come to you if you live near enough.
Not all shapes are suitable for a treeless saddle, despite what they say, and some may fit only with special shims in the pad. All of them should be used with a special pad underneath, designed for treeless saddles, and these are usually about 50 to 100 pounds, so not cheap.
Everyone on this site who rides treeless has their favourite treeless saddle! I have a Barefoot Cheyenne, but I miss the knee/thigh rolls, so am looking at either a Freeform or a Sensation.

[Showjumper]

In addition to what Doris said, you need to choose a saddle that best suits the activities you do with your pony, fits the rider and most importantly, the right padding to make the saddle fit the pony as well as possible.

I have a Freeform and a Fitform and am an agent for Freeform treeless saddles. I've also owned a Diddi Pad and have ridden in a Fhoenix and a Flexion SBS.

The Freeform is better than the Fitform for schooling, jumping and fast work however the Fitform is great for hacking and mooching about - I also like it for horses that are saddle shy as it is floppier than the Freeform.

[old_woman]

[QUOTE=doris;1182056]. All of them should be used with a special pad underneath, designed for treeless saddles,
[QUOTE]

Not so.
Some treeless saddles most definitely do NOT need "special pads" underneath - from the very cheapest and smallest, which would probably be the Thorowgood "Safari Cub", to the most expensive, and several models in between. It is certain specific TYPES of treeless saddle which need special, usually expensive, padding.

[doris]

Pardon me Old Woman. Perhaps I should have amended my wording to read that all the saddles, and that is most of the better known ones, do need special pads, and this is specified on their websites. There are also some very knowledgeable people that would'nt use a treeless (unless specified) without some form of pad to give spinal clearance, and I consider myself on of these people.
I am also bordering on being quite senior.

[Showjumper]

The gulleted treeless saddles such as the Flexion SBS, Fhoenix and Star Trekk don't require special pads although they may still need shimming to get the perfect fit but the saddles without a gullet - Freeform, Barefoot, Ansur etc - do.

To name but a few: Barefoot recommend the Grandeur, Trekker have their own pad, Freeform recommend the Haf or Christ and the Sensation recommend the use of a Skito pad. With most treeless saddles, the company states that the warranty on the saddle is invalid if used with padding not approved/recommended by the company.

[doris]

Ones like the Phoenix are stated to be 'part treed' and have a gullet, so are not really the same as 100% treeless, where the gullet has to be 'made' from the special pad designed for the saddle.
The Safari Cub has its own removable inserts for ease of fit, which of course, removes the need for a special pad, the inserts doing the same job.

[Showjumper]

The Fhoenix has a part tree in the cantle but still fits more like a treeless than a treed saddle.

[old_woman]

Ones like the Phoenix are stated to be 'part treed' ...

Which other ones are "like the Fhoenix"? I always thought the Fhoenix was unique.

The Safari Cub has its own removable inserts for ease of fit, which of course, removes the need for a special pad, the inserts doing the same job.

You are mistaken. The Safari Cub has moveable panels which are held in position by velcro. I do not know where you get the idea that it has "inserts".

The Thorowgood website shows this very well if you are unsure.

In the same vein, shimming is not at all the same thing as padding.

There are also some very knowledgeable people ... and I consider myself on of these people.
I am also bordering on being quite senior.

Old age means I need very little sleep which means even more time to spend reading, learning and enjoying myself with the horses. I am almost bound to be much older than you, and despite having had horses all of my long life, the more I learn about horses, the more I learn how much MORE there is to learn about these wonderful animals which are a part of our individual lives and of human civilisation.
http://www.cosgan.de/images/more/flowers/060.gif

[Showjumper]

Shimming is often essential to padding to get the saddle to fit the horse as best it can. I consider shimming to be a tool in my padding toolbox ;)

[No_Angel]

secondhand treeless saddles come up alot on ebay.
I have a 12hh section a and use a startrekk dressage on her that fits her really nicely. Weve tried quite a few on her, including my fhoenix, and it seems only the freeform sb with forward girthing fits her as nicely as her startrekk, but hte startrekk looks more conventional for showing and the like.

[doris]

This is supposed to be a friendly discussion forum, and I'm finding some of the replies here are not leaning towards that vein at all I'm afraid. I don't think anyone has suggested that anyone one this board has lots of time to spend reading, researching etc., or whether they haven't. A good decent discussion should not bring personal elements into it, or suggest that some people are more knowledgeable than others, but a sharing of knowleadge in a nice way is very helpful to some people. I cannot believe that my original posting about treeless saddles (true treeless that is) requiring additional pads or whatever underneath has caused these types of replies. Also, I merely pointed out my age as just a matter of (friendly) fact, as it's not always apparent when posting.
Also, putting words in capitals is usually considered as shouting! Not necessary. I would suggest that replies are re-read before posting, and that valid points are put in a friendly, nice way.

Whether a saddle (Safari Cub) has inserts or removeable panels isn't the point. The fact that it is still given a gullet of sorts and can be altered within the saddle as part of that saddle, without extra padding is the point.
Whether a Phoenix is unique isn't the point, see Showjumper's post for other model names. I am not, therefore going to give long lists of saddles that are in the same 'group', whether unique in their design or not. Many saddles may be unique in their design, but may fall into the same category. It may well be unique, but it is one of the saddles that is termed to be gulleted, and is rightly or wrongly, advertised sometimes a part treeless, and therefore a bit different to the treeless saddle that is not made with a gullet, extra velcro bits (panels or inserts etc, ) and which are made to be used with special pads underneath, and the pad will often be recommended when buying the saddle.

I'm also well aware that shimming is not the same thing as padding!

[Laura+Phantom]

I don't know why so many threads turn sour these days after a harmless comment..also I don't believe it is necessarily true that the older you are, the more knowledge you have. With horses you never know everything and therefore should not pour scorn on those with differing opinions from your own.

Anyway, in reply to the OP, I would say yes, try some different types and see what suits the pony best. My pony goes extremely well in our Trekker Treeless.

[doris]

I certainly agree with you, and I was really taken aback by the response. No, age doesn't necessarily mean you know more, or less - it depends on the person, and their interests and their thirst for knowleadge, not their age. I know some extremely knowledgeable youngsters. I think some of the problem is that we all tend to lump these saddle under the term 'treeless', rather like we used to call all vacuum cleaners 'hoovers'.

I have pm'd the original poster as I don't think she got a good and fair debate relating to her original question.

My original answer was posted with the knowledge gained from looking up various treeless sites over the past 2/3 years. The Horse and Harmony site clearly states: And I don't think they are relating to just their own saddles.

1. Every treeless saddle should only be ridden with an additional pressure-absorbing underlay. 2. For riders weighing over 90 kg we advise a treeless saddle only in certain cases. Questions on this aspect will gladly be answered by horse physiology specialist S. Ullmann.