Foot Sore and Slipping on Bridleways

[NoviceNic]

I have Captain's front shod and his back barefoot. I have only been riding out once a week in the Winter. Usually roads but on Saturday I did bridleway which was muddy, wet and stony in places. You would think it was his barefeet that were sore and slipping but it was his front shod ones. What do you think has happened? Wet and soft from the fields this Winter. Too much bridleway? The farrier was out a fortnight ago..:confused:

[Yann]

Does he have flat soles on the front? If so it's possible the farrier may have thinned them a bit to fit the shoe, couple that with the wet field and they would be more vulnerable.

[NoviceNic]

So it could just be wet field, wet, soft soles.......

[Scarlett 001]

Skeeter is barefoot behind, shod in front. Recently, one of the shod front feet (the left one) got very sore, and the sole was very soft and vulnerable. The right front shod hoof and the 2 barefoot behind hooves were all fine.

So I am not so sure it is always as simple as shod or unshod (although sometimes it may be) but also to do with the overall quality/shape etc. of the hoof. Skeeter has a good front right foot (shod) in terms of sole and hoofwall integrity, and that shod hoof was fine and did not get soft and compromised like the left fore shod hoof. Xrays showed a thinner sole on that left front, and it tends to underrun etc., all seeming to make it more vulnerable.

Do the soles feel soft in front vs. behind? I could tell a difference right away in softness/hardness between Skeet's left front sole vs. the right front sole.

[LokiSofi]

I have got the same problem with Loki at the moment. He has been shod just in front for a while now but was quite pottery.......we believed it to be as he was getting over pre laminitis. But had farrier out 4 weeks ago to have him re-shod and since then Loki has been horrendously lame in his front feet (only shod in front) he is fine on soft ground and will happily gallop round bucking etc but on hard ground he can hardly move. We believed it was pre laminitis again but as he is stabled 24/7 and only on a handful of happy hoof twice a day and hay my vet says this is impossible as otherwise Loki would have to have a diet of nothing

[mayoguinness]

Why don't you just take the shoes off......read some very interesting stuff on how the hoof contracts in a shoe. It says the when a horse picks his hoof up it natural contracts and when it puts its hoof down it naturally widens again so it is constantly doing this as the horse is walking round. Now if the shoe is put on ( a hard inflexable and rigid piece of metel) when the hoof is up (which it has to be to nail it on) then its in ths contracted state and then when it puts its hoof back down of course it cannot expand like it would do naturally so it has to stay contracted causing the hoof to get smaller and smaller............thought it was interesting ;)

[Bobbin]

I think with the amount of rain we've had lately, well down south its been awful, most horses will be feeling the effects especially if they are turned out in fields with poor drainage, regardless if they are shod or not.

I also used to find that shod feet tend to slip more anyway as there is no 'grip'.

I fell 100% safer with unshod feet, I feel very vaunrable on Molly on the roads so will be getting road nails put in next time I think.

[Yann]

Shod feet still expand and contract in the way you describe, just less. If you look at the upper surface of a worn shoe there's often abrasion visible where the heels were. My guess is that post shoeing footiness would be down to sole thinning and possibly a bit of nail bind too.

It isn't good enough to say 'take the shoes off', if a horse is struggling on a surface shod then it will be ten times worse without them It can take an awful lot of time and effort before that isn't the case any more :) A horse that's footsore in shoes is certainly a matter of concern though.

[mayoguinness]

True but It showed a picture of a horse that hasn't been shod then that same horse after 2 years of shoeing, then 5 years and the hoof was getting smaller and smaller. Which also meen the new shoes are going to be in a different place meaning that the holes from the nails from the old shoe when taken off are now going to be left open which also means that infection can get up into the hoof!!

[MelanieD]

I've known a few shod horses not be able to cope with a rough bridlepath in my area, while by barefoot coblet tried to tank off down it :D If the front feet are not too healthy (and it does sound like they aren't as good as the backs since they are ouchy even with shoes) then it could be that the wet weather is affecting them more than the backs and on a very rough bridlepath shoes might not be giving enough protection. Hoof boots would protect more than shoes and if you have a good trimmer then you could probably improve the feet as well. Keratex hoof hardener might help, or maybe your farrier could suggest some different kind of shoe, like a wider one to protect more of the sole or pads, though pads don't usually do anything good for hooves long term.

Getting him onto dry ground a bit more, like in for a few hours a day or moving to a drier field if that's an option, should help if it's the wet ground causing problems, but since the backs are fine even though they are in the same environment I'd be looking at more than just the wet ground.

[Scarlett 001]

It isn't good enough to say 'take the shoes off', if a horse is struggling on a surface shod then it will be ten times worse without them It can take an awful lot of time and effort before that isn't the case any more :) A horse that's footsore in shoes is certainly a matter of concern though.

In Skeeter's recent real sore hoof issue on the left fore - he was mildly lame in shoes, hobbling lame when the shoe was taken off to look for abscesses etc. Turned out he had a wet, soft, compromised sole on that hoof and indeed taking the shoes off is no immediate solution. Going barefoot would need time, and taking the shoes off may well cripple the horse at this point if feet already sore - I speak from very recent experience. You need to deal with the immediate crisis in the best way and then concern oneself with the longer term management after the crisis.

But, as Yann said a horse that is footsore in shoes is a concern (although soft wet conditions could be a catalyst, there could be other hoof issues). For example, my horse was xrayed and he has an underrun heel (always known that), zero palmar angle and very very thin soles, accompanying the footiness in that one left fore hoof. He is getting remedial work done in the trimming/shoeing now to address these issues. Of course, if someone wanted to try barefoot as a longer term solution, that is an option too. But the source of footiness in shoes should be addressed either way.

[mayoguinness]

Yeah, the thing is with going barefoot as well just now is that the holes left in the hoof from the nails in this wet weather could mean infection getting up into them and causing an absess so perhaps better waiting till the weather improves a little if you do go barefoot ;)

[Skib]

Is he sore or just slipping?
Fact is the bridleways we ride are very very slippery at the moment. In some places the hooves sink deep into the mud, and may slip as they come up again. In others they skid sideways. Other places under lakes of water are avoided by the horses, though it is likely the ground is firmer there, only as a rider you can't see. It is painfully slow riding. You can trot and canter in a few places, but not with any light hearted abandon.

[Shadowlark]

If we were to take Peter Ramey's explanation of what is happening here it would look somthing like....

The rear hoof is actually the driving foot - it provides the locomotion. Totaly backwards idea to most people, but look at the musclature of the hrose's hind vs's his front. Now the rear is where most people don't shoe, and usually the horse has decent feet with good hard soles back there, they never seem as ouchie back there - because according to him these feet are usually left to fend for themselves and as such tend to have good thick soles that can stand up to the rigours of day to day use.

So using his theory, combined with it being a mucky mess everywhere I go, we can theorize that soles every where are soft right now, and more so on the shod hoof as it's elevated and so doesn't get the stimulation to Calous the way a back one would. Now add to that that your farrier has likely pared some of it down, as they do to fit into a shoe corrrectly so it's even thinner. So now in theory your horse is going to be more tentative in putting a foot down for worry of hitting a stone or generaly feeling ouchie - making them more likely to put a foot wrong.. making them more likley to slide in the mud and muck. Result is a bit of a vicious circle. Lets not forget that the shoulder is also not as strong as the hindequarter, so the horse is less able to "save" a slip.

Personally, if I were set on keeping shoes on - I would look into getting some easy boots to go over your front shoes. This will protect your horses sole from the gravel, increase his traction somewhat - but more importantly will increase his confidence in placing his foot since it won't hurt and should help eleviate him slipping around. It's a much better option then Pads which can start thier own disasterous vicious circle!

[mayoguinness]

Nice explanation - looking forward to reading Peter Ramey's book :)