The difference between "Approach and Retreat" and "sacking out"

[Lili & Morgan]

I would be gratefull if somebody could take me step-by-step with a desensitisation or Approach and retreat.
I am worry I am getting mixed up with "sacking out", which may be flooding the horse.

It will be great example for desensitisation for clippers or hindlegs handling.

(don't I have an idea in mind? :D )

Thanks. It is just to clear the confusion bewteen A&R and sacking out.

[Yann]

With A&R you always present the stimulus at a low enough level so that the horse has a chance to tolerate it, and when it does you withdraw it as a reward.

With clippers you might run them at a suitable distance, where the horse will be concerned but not enough to make the flight instinct kick in. It might move a little, but the moment it stands and or turns to face the person with the clippers then they are withdrawn. You might repeat at the same distance until the horse stops reacting to them at all, before reducing the distance slightly and repeating the process. With leg handling you would start where the horse is happy to be touched and then move out of the comfort zone slightly, withdrawing when the horse tolerates the touch. This approach can be applied to all sorts of problems :)

I presume the equivalent of sacking out would be something like running clippers on the horse with it penned in and unable to flee, which is flooding. However it's also possible to mix the two, as Monty Roberts for example seems to do at some demos, he will pen a horse in and then use A&R, which gets a faster result but it's a good discussion point as to whether it's the same one.

[Lili & Morgan]

Thanks for clearing out the confusion. It also confirms me that I have done A&R, and I understood it ;)

Would you say that sacking-out-flooding will be "habituation"? I am asking for vocabulary reason.
The stimulus would be at full level. It is a question of waiting for the horse "to get used to it" :confused:

Interesting point about MR mixing the two.

I am looking forward of others comments.

[Harry Hobbes]

"Sacking out" is the layman's term for "habituation", which is a process, and like most processes, one gets to choose the technique to accomplish the process.

"Flooding" is one technique; "progressive desensitation" (i.e., "advance and retreat") one other.

Although some form of progressive desensitation has historically been used in sacking out (albeit not the predominate technique), nowadays with the natural horsemanship influence in ascendence, sacking out is mostly accomplished by progressive desensitation (i.e., "advance and retreat").

Best regards,
Harry

[michelle c]

i understood the term habituation as when the horse gets used to something in different places!!!

eg if you get a horse used to loading in a trailer at home and he is not scared or bothered by getting in, and you take him somewere else like the beach or a show, he then will not go back in the trailer!!! this is because you have to load the horse in different situations and places before he is happy to laoad every were, which is habituation!!!!!

[Harry Hobbes]

From Dictionary.com:
ha·bit·u·a·tion /həˌbɪtʃuˈeɪʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[huh-bich-oo-ey-shuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. the act of habituating.
2. the condition of being habituated.
3. physiological tolerance to or psychological dependence on a drug, short of addiction.
4. reduction of psychological or behavioral response occurring when a specific stimulus occurs repeatedly.


American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source ha·bit·u·a·tion (hə-bĭch'ōō-ā'shən) Pronunciation Key
n.
The process of habituating or the state of being habituated.

Physiological tolerance to a drug resulting from repeated use.
Psychological dependence on a drug.
Psychology The decline of a conditioned response following repeated exposure to the conditioned stimulus.


WordNet - Cite This Source habituation

noun
1. being abnormally tolerant to and dependent on something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming (especially alcohol or narcotic drugs) [syn: addiction]
2. a general accommodation to unchanging environmental conditions

Try a search on the Internet on "habituation" for additional information.

Best regards,
Harry