Sore feet????:-(

[Nik-n-Kia]

Hi Peeps

Kia has been barefoot at the back now for nearly two shoing sessions (roughly 12 weeks) and he has went lame even on grass. His feet arnt cracked, bleeding or really bruised looking. they are slightly hot not really so but warm to the touch.

My dad has checked for abcesses and has found no woulds or depressions but he is really tender aroung the frog area and near the toes.

He nearly kicked my dad on his butt when he squeezed these areas :rolleyes: .

I think that my experiment has failed really and the farrier is coming out to look at him and put shoes on to see if he is still lame with them on. My dad is really experienced with horses and is fairly sure that he needs the shoes back on as I poulticed the feet and bandages and padded them and he was slightly sounder and not walking like a cat on a hot tin roof.

Does this sound like anything else to you more knowledgable peeps???

Here are a few pics to help
Last trimming 4 weeks ago
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p120/Nik-n-Kia/hoof11.jpg
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p120/Nik-n-Kia/hoof12.jpg
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p120/Nik-n-Kia/hoof13.jpg

Do these look ok???

Nikki xxxxx

[Palomino Mare]

hi!

jerry has white hooves too and if they aren't shod then he bruises them really easily - this sounds like the problem to me, try box rest for a couple of days and i would reccommed putting the shoes back on

amz xx

[horsemadmandy]

Hi
As much as I like the idea of horse without shoes and have tryed it with a previous horse for 2 years I ended up putting shoes back on. This is not an experience I would like to go through again :eek: I would say it is based on every individual horse and some do well and others do not. Go with your heart and if your horse is unhappy just put the shoes back on. :)

[Bebe]

He's got no wall to speak of at ground level so will be supporting his weight on his soles, so if they're at all thin or compromised then I'm not surprised he's lame. This will be why padding his feet has helped.

I personally wouldn't want to put shoes back on those hooves, there's infection present (which is why he's got no wall at the bottom) and shoeing over that will just seal it in, creating it's perfect environment.

There's also some issues with the overall balance, as evidenced by the red bruising. It's nothing to do with being shod or not, it's a case of the hoof balance being out so the concussive forces of the horse moving aren't transmitted up the hoof wall and other structures correctly.

[Nik-n-Kia]

Well how do I sort that then?????

I cant afford hoof boots and I cant afford to put on four vetwraps on everyday.

What infection are you talking about????? i had the vet out and he nevr said anything about infection this morning??? He just looked at the bruising and said it was to do with having no sole and he was to have shoes put on next week not this week so I cancelled the farrier.

Is there something that my vet never told me then????

Nikki xxxx :D

[Bobbin]

I think overall vets don't encourage barefoot as a rule. So I wouldn't say he hasn't told you something just he's told you his opinion.

That pinky marking on the hoof is a bruise, my girl gets it all the time on her white hoof.

What sort of suppliments/care routine are you using on the feet? I found Keretex hoof gel painted onto the sole and hoof every other say helped an awful lot. Also how much time does he get in out of the wet conditions that we've had this year.

I can't stress how useful hoof boots are though and TBH I don't think you'll get through this transitional period without them, especially if you plan on riding him.

When Bry gets really footy I keep her in for a day or so and then pop the boots on when I work her, only on her fronts now, I'm mean, she has to go BF behind.

Have a look on ebay, I sold a perfecxtly good pair of old macs on there for just £30

[Bay Mare]

I have to agree with Bebe. I'd definitely want to sort out the infection and, personally, even if I was going to put shoes on at some point I wouldn't be putting them on at the moment, it may mask the problem but isn't going to solve it.

I can't see the piccies because my screen is shot but if Bebe says that the balance is off then I'd agree with her. She has trimmed Saffy for me and knows what she's talking about.

I also agree that having white hooves is nothing to do with it. Saff has white feet and is doing really well barefoot (and has for almost 2 years now). The story that white hooves are weak hooves is untrue, it's just that you see the bruising easier on white hooves.

[Nik-n-Kia]

Can I ask again what infection????? :confused: :confused:

I cant see anything but then I'm not a barefoot expert just tried to to see if it was viable!!! The shoes were falling off and farrier said to leave them off to see if they would grow out the crumbly bits.

If you could tell me where this infection is that the vet missed then i can get him to come back out and treat it.

Thanks

Nikki xxxxx

[Nik-n-Kia]

bobbin

He gets cornucrescine soft and crumbly on his feet every second day and he has feel good 30 hoof suplement in his feeds everyday.

Nikki xxxxx :p

[Nik-n-Kia]

Please guys as If i call the vet out again today then it wont cost me anything!!!!!

Nikki xxxx

[capalldubh]

Hiya Nikki,

I'm a total barefoot newbie, but have had lots to learn with Jackson's awful feet since last November.

I'm not sure vets have much to say about the sort of infection that you get around old nail holes where sort of chunks fall off (or farriers either in my experience) or in the white line. My vet did, but I think she was unusual. Basically, the white line that I can see looks black, which means fungus or bacteria in there.

You just need to make sure you kill the bugs, and lots of people use things like Milton (stuff you soak babies' bottles in) or Borax (which Boots used to do but which I've never been able to get hold of). If you can persuade Kia to stand with his hoof in a shallow bucket of Milton solution for 10 mins, it would be great for the nail holes (I think the frog might be a bit gooey too - does it smell at all? if it's thrushy it would hurt if you squeezed it - the Milton would help that too). Then you can make up some Milton solution each day and put in an old scooshy spray bottle and squirt in the holes and on the frog when cleaning his feet. I think Keratex do a special nail hole disinfectant if that's easier for you to get than Milton or whatever.

Anyway, it's much more a DIY thing than a vet thing, at this stage - and also I would guess he could benefit from having the toe rolled a bit, it looks a bit jaggy - is it a while since the farrier last trimmed him?

Anyway there are lots of hoofcare experts on here who give great tips, and aren't learners like me :) so maybe this will help bump the post up and get more feedback for you :)

[Bebe]

The shoes were falling off and farrier said to leave them off to see if they would grow out the crumbly bits.


That's the infection, and a lot of farriers and vets won't recognise it for that until it's so bad you've got serious problems. It first shows up as black marks/lines around the nail holes or as a lining pattern in the inner wall when viewed from the sole but can progress to become what is recognised as White Line Disease.

Basically it's anaerobic bacteria that have infiltrated the hoof and eaten away at some of the tissue there. In it's mildest form it doesn't hurt the horse which is why most people don't think it's an issue. It will cause problems with horn quality, leading to crumbling walls and shoe loss.

It's easy enough to treat, soak or scrub the hoof with your treatment of choice. Borax (2 tbsp to a gallon of water), Milton (20% solution), Hibiscrub (1 capful in 1 pint of water) are all useful for treating mild infection and are cheap and easy to get hold off. Do it twice weekly to start with until you see an improvement. For serious cases Cleantrax is the best approach but it's expensive and a pain so not worth doing for mild cases.

You may find too that by getting rid of the infection his hooves grow more quickly, the walls will certainly be of better quality.

As for him being sore, in the short term you could just leave him on the ground that he's comfortable on. In the longer term, or if you have to move him about over hard or stony ground, you can cut up mousemats and tape them onto the soles of his hooves to help make him more comfy. It's a cheap and cheerful way of muddling through.

On the plus side the rest of his hoof looks pretty good, and would look much much better with some changes to the hoof balance. If you can get him over this initial hump I'd be very optimistic of him doing well over the next few months provided there's nothing in his diet or environment that might cause problems (thinking low grade laminitis, excessive wet and so on).

[Bobbin]

Erm,

Try and get hold of some Calmag, I personally don't rate any of these 'hoof suppliments'. I don't know where you live but Calmag is normally sold in feed merchants but more farming type than general animals. Its in a huge sack, looks like grit and costs about £5. Most horses are defficient in magnesium but there is no hoof suppliment on the market that actually has a decent dose of magnesium in it...believe me I've looked. My EP gets the Mag oxide now which is like flour and is quite expensive but if your horse will eat the calmag then use that.

Also I have some insert pads that I tried in Brys boots that I don't use, I am happy to send you them. I only have one pair though but you can vet wrap or gaffer tape them to the horses foot and provided you keep in walk should be able to hack out ok.

I tried soaking Brys foot in a solution, not a chance in hell, she went nuts so I cleaned the foot by squirting the hose pipe all over it and into any crevasis's (sp??) then cleaning with hibi scrub or whatever solution you want to use, then syringing the solution into any crevasis's.

Barefoot is not the easy option and anyone who thinks it is should really think about the commitment and possible lack of riding....and if thinsg aren't straight forward its not cheaper than shoeing.

[MelanieD]

What Bebe said about infection.

And, being sore on soft ground, bit of a flush of grass in a lot of areas and those briuses in the hoof wall are suspiciously like the signs of mild laminitis, or what my vet would refer to as 'not laminitis, it just needs shoes'. Horses that have had past bouts of laminitis (even very mild that would be barely noticeable in shoes) are more prone to infections in the hoof wall as well. Being careful with diet and feeding a magnesium supplement might make him more comfortable quite quickly..

[Bobbin]

or what my vet would refer to as 'not laminitis, it just needs shoes'.

That made me laugh......why are vets so sure that shoeing is the answer to everything!

[MelanieD]

Mine seems pretty convinced the feet will drop off if the poor little pony has to walk around without footwear for more than a few seconds :rolleyes: :D :D

[Nik-n-Kia]

Thanks guys

he is getting a hoof scrub with betadine every second day and when the hoof is dry he is getting the cornucrescine on them.

This has been going on all winter even with the shoes on as he is prone to mudrash. I have phoned the vet again and he said that he wouldnt worry about it and that cleaning it would sort it out.

He is due next week. i got my dates mixed up and I am on 15 weeks instead of twelve. I need to get myself a calender!!!!

I didnt do it to save money coz If I wanted to do that I would get rid of Kia. I did it because the shoes were tearing off parts of his hoof wall and I have pics from before this started to show the state of his feet. they were really torn looking, here they are and they were taken 15 weeks ago

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p120/Nik-n-Kia/hoof2.jpg
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p120/Nik-n-Kia/hoof5.jpg
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p120/Nik-n-Kia/hoof7.jpg

I appreciate the pads bobbin. thanks very much :D I will postpone that just now and see how he is going. The ground around here is very squishy and waterlogged and the cornucrescine helps as it repels excess water like the keratex.

Cheers peeps!!!!

Nikki xxxxxx :D :D :D

[Bebe]

I'd lay off the Cornucresine, it can to promote growth rates but you sacrifice horn quality in the process.

Whilst infection is present I wouldn't apply anything to the hoof other than whichever bug busting treatment you're using. Once you've got rid of that Right Step Hoof Dressing is good, Hoof Moist can help some horses but anything oil based is a no-no as it does more harm than good.

[Nik-n-Kia]

cool.

thanks

Nikki xxxxxxxxx :D

[Nik-n-Kia]

Hi sorry to disappoint you peeps but the shoes are going back on.

I have to put them back on as I have just had the farmer on the phone saying that Kia is limping around the field at the moment and he only has one of his paddings on. I'll have to go up and sort him.:mad:

I think that I'll dig out the nail holes and clean them for this week and if the farrier is ok the shoes are going back on.

I cant have him being lame and bruised and this is making me feel like sh*t. :mad:

Tried and failed. It was good while it lasted though and I thought that we were gonna be joining the barefoot brigade but didnt happen that way.

Thank you peeps for all the advice amd support with my stupid and innane questions. I'm sure that your patience has been tested!!!!

Thank You

Nikki xxxx :D

[Bobbin]

Are you sure you can't put him on box rest for a few days to give his feet a chance to dry out? The ground is so water logged at the moment that his feet are probably really soft. A few days in on dry bedding with cleaning twice a day should see him right.

I know its tough, I break my heart watching Bry hobble around.

[Nik-n-Kia]

Just back

He now has a cut on his foot. Silly nag has got caught in the fence, pulled back and cut the foot.

Why oh why do I have the knack of having problems around this time of year. Even with my other horses :rolleyes:

I hate spring!!!

Nothing to do with the soles then!!!! What a relief.

Will be watching over the next week. I dont really want to leave him in as he gets worked up and I dont want him box walking as he does that when left in all day.

Might have to tho I'll wait and see!!!! He is a hypocondriact (sp?)

Nikki xxxxx