Natural Horsemanship....am I up to it??

[mayoguinness]

In the future as a career I'd love to teach Austalian Natural Horsemanship. At the moment I'm having lessons from Jayne Lavender who is fantastic and in the summer I'm going on tour for a bit with her..a few days at a time sort of thing!! I study horses and our little herd all the time and play at liberty with about every horse I get a chance to, from the so called "dangerous ones" to the sweet little ponies all the time learning more and more and practising all that I'm taught. At the moment to teach is my dream but I can be a bit shy round people and I wonder if I'm up to it and if I could make a go of it in the future. Of course I'm only 13 at the mo but already practising on friends and family:o thoughts and opinions welcome:) .......................

thanks,

MG.xx

[Shadowlark]

To become the best horse trainer you can be - my advice is to experience EVERYTHING. I know you think the world of Jayne, and that's fantastic - but the more you experience, the more people you take lessons from - the more horses you work with and watch the better a horse person you will be.

In my background, I have traditional training. I have my CEF coaching levels in both english and western. I have evented competitivly and was trained by a classical Dressage coach. I have worked summer camps in both disciplines. Done a summer of ride along with a large animal vet. I went to every clinic I could.. no matter the discipline because I felt EVERYONE had value to add. I read everything i can get my paws on. I don't care who it's by or if thier "values" don't match mine. From NH, to classical, to reining.. I will pick up just about anything take what I want.. and mentaly dispose of the rest.

Now lets add to that 10 years as a professional dog trainer, training for which included everything from traditional choke and praise crap right up to clicker shapping everything for movie dogs and sport dogs. I currently run a very successful flyball club, have competed at the national level in Agility top flite Obedience dogs and Judge in Disc dog. I can add to that.. chicken training, parrot training, bunny training and Cat training to name a few.

Now this seems long winded and like I am tooting my own horn. That isn't my goal. What I have to show from all of this is one HECK Of a tool box for training animals and understanding animal behaviour. I can read a dog or horse like nobody's business. And I can teach a class. I have the pressence to stand in an arena or dog club and collect everyone's attention and inpart what I have to share on whatever topic I have been asked to speak on. My list of potential solutions for problems ranging from simple to complex is huge and varried. My ability to combine methods and techniques succesfuly keeps people coming back. The reward for which is.. that I am in demand.

That is what would make you into a succesful trainer. It's not your technique it's your ability to reach people and thier animals at the level they are at and help to guide them thru the learning process together in a way that meets both parties needs emotionaly and physicly. Who knows maybe one day people will teach and learn the "Mayo" way instead of the Jayne Lavendar way - but to do that you need to define yourself as a person and as a trainer. Don't just repackage what she is saying expand yourself and your horse.

Varriety my dear is the spice of life. Take EVERY oportunity presented to you to learn. Even if it doesn't fit with your current view of horsemanship - you never know when an idea given out of context might save your hide. I admire your determination, but encourage you to open your mind to the vast world of ideas that is horsemanship!

[mayoguinness]

I know your right......hell its what she did herself............shes done eventing, dressage, reining, you name it and shes done it but shes come through all of that and then found Parelli, moved onto Ken Faulkner and then found her own way. What she says it what I already know from Mayo but she tells me how to put it into practise, I think thats why I get on so well with her methods. At the moment I just want to learn everything I can from her but I shall not close my mind to other things, she herself says shes never satisfied with what she teaches and always wants to take it a step further....................thanks for the advice, keep it coming,

MGxx :)

[Joyscarer]

Wow what a great response shadowlark :D

I don't have the experience to comment on the training side of things but what I would just reiterate from your post is the fact that a great trainer doesn't just need to be able to communicate and train horses, you have to find a way with humans too.

That means being able to read people like a book and appreciate what the best way of communicating your ideas to them is and it varies greatly from one person to the next. :)

[KateWooten]

I'd just add to what shadowlark says ... Personally, at your age, I see nothing wrong with throwing yourself wholeheartedly into this one route that inspires you. Sometimes in your posts you come across as slightly naive, slightly too bowled over by one 'method' ... but I think that's absolutely as it should be at this stage in the game. I think you will do fine to grow as far as you can with Jayne Lavender. If you'd had the opportunity at your age to be taken under the wing of a Big Name classically trained instructor, everybody would say 'wow, learn all you can from them'. You have a big opportunity here, so make the most of it. Make yourself really, really useful (I'm sure you will) and learn all you can. I think you're smart enough to realise that you should read around the subject as much as you possibly can - if nothing else, you need to in order to relate to the other people you will come across in your professional life. It's good to be able to refer to an exercise, for example, as 'like' CA's 'Lunging for respect' or PP's 'Circling' .. it's good to be able to speak and understand all of the big NH trainer's individual languages.

Actually the question was .. can you do it ? And the answer is yes, if you want to enough. But you won't really know if you want to enough until it's too late. You won't know what you have to sacrifice to live this dream, until you get there. You might not have to sacrifice anything - who knows ? You might be the next Pat Parelli :) But you might have to sacrifice along the way. Do you want it enough that you're prepared to give up Mayo ? That you're prepared to be extremely poor and never own your own horse ? Will you sacrifice all your riding ambitions while watching your students achieve theirs ?

Who knows if these questions will come up ... but if they do (they will) have a plan B. You need your plan B in the bank. Nobody can take away from you, stunning A* grades in real honest basics. The core school subjects are 'core' for good reason. Don't let your dreams get in the way of your schoolwork ... If it helps, think of your math, english etc lessons, as the building blocks of your career - so focus on that when you're tempted to stare out the window and dream of horses. Good communication, good analytical problem solving ability ... you are going to need all these things in order to build your business. So don't neglect them.

As for standing up in front of crowds of people - that will come, don't worry about it. Much of people's shyness or nervousness comes from being forced to speak in front of hostile crowds - like classmates - too early ... it's Sooooo much easier when you're 'the expert' ... you wouldn't believe !

[mayoguinness]

Thankyou guys, your posts where very inspiring. My biggest weakness is humans, I watch Jayne and even with someone who is beating the hell out of a horse she doesn't go in shouting and having a go, she sneaks round the back door telling them maybe they should try it like this and then and before you know it there NH converts without even knowing it themselves!! I can put up with most things horses throw at me but humans are anouther matter.............If I see something that I think is abuse or that is wronge, I tend to have a go and scare them off rarther than encourage the good in them but that has to sop if I want to teach which I know!!
I shall learn all I can about everything I can don't worry about that........its not my dream to be the next Pat Parelli, he seems so dominated by money all the time though I know the good its doing, I guess thats anouther reason I like Jayne, shes not money minded!! I can do public speaking ok as in a big crowd as long as I've wrote down what I'm gunna say first!! I'm prepared to be poor to learn all I can and not have a lot of money, the only thing I'm not prepared to do is give up Mayo under any circumstance, that would be like throwing away all that he's taught me and all the trust and friendship he's learnt in humans to suddenly be gone though I might have to look on putting him on lone to someone I trust!!

Thanks for all your advice, its given me something to think about,

MG.xx

[jenren!!]

I used to want to be a riding instructor but could never imagine myself shouting out to people with others watching. Im not too good with people really either.

It tends to get better when you're older, im certainly not as shy as i was but once you have confidence in your abilities and have the experience and knowledge you will feel more confident about what you teach, whether to horses or to humans.

[bexj]

You will learn to deal with humans in time, don't let that element put you off yet. Keep watching the experts and learn not only how they deal with horses, but also how they deal with humans - in fact watch humans in any aspect of your life, you will learn a lot about respecting people's feelings. (and how not to!!)

As someone said earlier, don't forget your education though - I can guarantee that your priorities will change over the coming years, whether that involves horses or not, but you will definitely need your education to back you up:)

[mayoguinness]

Thanks, I shall study Jayne and the way she teaches when I go on tour with her!! She has a lot of confidence and seems to know how to solve every problem with out even thinking about it..............I could never imagine being that good.......................................................

[Shadowlark]

When you have the "toolbox" - it's easy to be confident when you know what you are talking about, and that what you are talking about works. I was painfully shy at your age and had to be prompted to say hello to new people.. but even then get me going on horses and look out!

People ARE the hardest part. I work in western circles.. and there is a lot going on there that I really don't agree with. But you need to keep somethings in mind when dealing with people.

Number 1 is in most cases they DO love thier horses and want what they believe is best for them. That belief may not coincied with your beliefs - and that's OK because at the end of the day.. you both still love your horses.

Now Keeping 1 in mind is Number 2 People don't intentionaly do cruel mean things (as we may perceive them) to the horse. They do them for a number of reasons. 1 is someone told them to. Horse people are followers in a BIG way this is why "fashions" of bits saddles and other auxillary tack come and go. If one person near me starts to use a german martingale.. god knows by the end of the week 15 others will have one on thier horse. In your neck of the woods I tend to hear about noseband fads coming and going. Or it works - the draw rein is a prime example here. People don't TRULY understand what they are seeking they only have a vague idea, so to them what they are getting from the draw Rein is "right" You toss those people up on a truly collected horse.. and they usually walk away humbled.

#2 is a false concept. To ilustrate this lets use the Tom Thumb. If I ask most people why they use a tom thumb the answer I will get is they want to use a curb like "the big boys do" but they love thier horse so they use what they perceive as a milder version. Why do they consider it milder? It's jointed so by default that makes it milder in thier mind. As soon as I ilustrate on the ground with thier horse the false hood of this misconception eyes tend to pop out of heads. Most people on tom thumbs have also skipped a crittical step - the horse doesn't have full grasp of neck reining. To my mind a horse who doesn't neck rein has no business in a curb let alone a broken curb.. go back and TEACH the horse...(but I digress)

By informing casually when asked instead of saying OMG WHAT ARE YOU DOING that thing is WICKED!!! People don't get thier backs up and go on the defensive. usually at this point if I have a horse in tow I will put my bridle on thier horse.. and usually they are amazed at how much better the horse goes right off.

Some people who will come to you are at wits end. The horse has frustrated or scared and possibly even hurt them. This often causes short fuses they are also under preassure because if you are standing there.. they are being "watched" making them more self concious. Sometimes that results in people freaking out at the horse for the slightest mistep.. sometimes that results in them being TOTALY ineffective at dealing with the horse. Sometimes they are just having a bad day. You as the instructor need to see beyond what is presented and dig deeper. You need to help them find a success that will ease the frustration or fear or embarassment and help them to succeed in going further forward.

I can't tell you how many times I have stood there and watched someone reef a horse around by the face or force a "spin" off a spur... Everytime I see it I feel sad for the horse - BUT they have asked me, which means they DO want to make it better - so usually I prempt with well that was a good try.. but how bout try it like this! And to see both horse and riders relief to finally communicating effectively is a very rewarding experience.

And last but not least.. the jerks. The ones who are there JUST to prove you wrong. The "yeah but it works fine my way" folks. These guys are the hardest to have around. I can now afford to offend them and it's a nice luxury because I used to just put up with them for the money. But I found they tended to bring the whole class down with thier negative attitude. As soon as a recognize one I single them out in front of the class right away and ask pointedly - If they already know what works why are they paying for my time? If they don't come back great and if they DO come back they are usually more willing to learn and several have come back with an apology.

LOL this has turned into something of a ramble.. I hope there is something int here you can use :)

[mayoguinness]

Yes thankyou shadowlark. To here about other peoples experience and to get their advice is very helpful to me........... I know its going to be difficult for me to try and deal with what I feel is abuse but if they want to change it thats the biggest step at all!! Thanks everyone, advice is very gratefully received :)

MG.xx

[mayoguinness]

I've got anouther problem horse coming into the field next week so I can work and play with her. The more horses I work with the better :D

[suneanarab]

hi there,

my son is the same age as you are. he has always been friendly and didn't have a problem with the people he knew. however, he does have learning difficulties and this has meant that he has been bullied at school. this caused him to become quite shy with strangers.

but you know what? he wanted to set up his own business and that is just what he has done. in fact jed won't be thirteen till the end of may and he set his business up last year. he new has his own web site and sells jewellery, aromatherapy, myth and magic stuff as well has natural creams and gells. as well as having the site he also sells on stalls and does parties. i have helped him as much as i can and run the business while he is at school. the rest of the time he does it all himself. i told him i would help him where i could, but that i expected him to learn about the products he sell so that he can tell his customers all that they need to know.

his confidence has come on in leaps and bounds. as said above, when you know what you are talking about it is so much easier! if he can do it so can you. now i know what he is doing is different to what you want to do, but i am doing what you want to do. i'm a natural horsemanship trainer, training both horses and people.

as above, learn everything you can!! study all the fads and fashions, all the real people and the so calleds. every trainer and horse has something to teach you even if it's only what not to do. training with one person now is fine, but you do need to gain alot more experience. one of the biggest things to learn is that even though people may ask for help it doesn't mean they really want it. no matter what you say or do they will stay the same as they are. if you want to go natural, then make sure that it is. there are lots of people out there that call themselves natural, humane, whisperers, classical and so forth, but few of them truely are.

parelli based is the way to go.

also don't be afraid to trust yourself. just because someone insists their way is better than yours, it doesn't mean it is.

i have trained hundreds of horses and people from all different walks of the horsey life and have gained something from every single one. you can do the same and it's great that you know what you want to do at such an early age. working with horses for other people is always going to mean a poor life in money terms. however it can make you life rich in so many other ways depending on what you are willing to take from it.

good luck!!

[mayoguinness]

Wow that an amzing about your son......I guess ita a case of, you can never start to soon :) Your a NH trainer?? How fantastic :D There are not maney true NH trainers from what I've seen. I've been to plenty of demos and clinics and the only person who I have ever met that I seem intune with is Jayne!! I am ready to work with everyone and take bita and peices from different people but most of all I want to stay open minded and natural 100%. So maney horse trainers if they make it and become sucsessfull our so full of themsleves and not wanting to take on anybody elses veiws. Anouther thing I like about Jayne - she doesn't do that even though she is sucsessful and getting increasingly well known shes not closed minded or big headed and will always email me or text me to give me advice if I need it :) I think going on tour with her will be a big eye opener as she says she goes to places that are very conventional and not a bit open minded where peoople treat there horses in ways neither of us agree with but have to put up with . She gave me the option of just going to the clinics and lessons that where NH people so I didn't see all that stuff but if I want to teach I know I need to be able to deal with that stuff so I will. Also very interested in studying something called the friendship technique :) thanks for the advice suneanarab and for telling me about your son, it has inspired me a lot :D

MG.xx

[suneanarab]

hi mg,

no worries, and glad to hear that it has inspired you a little. jed is proof that you are never too young to choose what you want to do and go for it. i'm sure you can make just as much of a go at things as jed can.

i'd be interested to hear about your time on tour. let me know how you get on.

suzanne

[mayoguinness]

Sure will. Summer will be here soon and I just can't wait :D so who did you train with to become a NH trainer??

[suneanarab]

i've been doing nh since i was a child. i had 2 very knowledgable old men who were great at nh. one lived at the back of my house and had ponies there. he was called roy and started me off on the right track. i then met jack carpindale who bred welsh ponies that he kept as a semi wild herd.

everyone thinks that nh came along with monty roberts and pat parelli. though i have to say that monty roberts is as far away from nh as i would want to be while pat parelli is as close as could be! of cause there wasn't anything like the halters that we have now, but that is how i learnt that you should never use anything that tightens on the head. there was no such thing as a round pen and so we did it in acred fields, hemce why i will never use a round pen for 'join up'. it's just not needed.

as i've got older i've studied sylvia loch, nuno olivira (that doesn't look right but sure you know who i mean) and the old masters of the spanish riding school. when monty roberts came over here i studied him as everyone was asking me what i thought (you can't give an opinion of something you haven't studied) and i hated it. i then started with parelli through ross simpson and found that this is exactly what roy and jack had been teaching me. i have also trained with julia and michel almany-bird at their classical training centre. that was wonderfull and again prooved the point that some say they are classical when they really are not, while michel and julia definately are!!

so far i've trained with about 500 horses and as you get something new (even if it's a variation of something old!) from each one. they tell you the truth that the owners either don't know or are too worried to tell you about.

i started backing ponies when i was about 8yrs old and dealing with problem horses and ponies from about ten. it's what i've always done so it's second nature to me. i was very lucky to have 2 such great men to learn from. jack is still living in the same house now, and although he doesn't 'do' horses any more i'm sure he'd still have something to teach me.

for me when it comes to nh i'm as minimalist as it gets. as i say; a designer can paint a room white and call it minimalist, put in something to sit on and it probably still is, if they put anything thing else in, even if it's all white it's still just a room full of white stuff. that's how i see nh, anything other than a plain knotted rope is not natural, my enclosed area gets as small as an all weather school and that is that.

everone is different but call a spade a spade is my motto. i like micheal peace as he does things as natural as it comes. i like dominique barbier as he tells it like it is and won't use gadgets, i find his thoughts on riding very inspiring. i also like buck branaman as he's not self obsessed and tells it like it is. i like richard maxwell more now that he's leaving the monty rubbish behind and is now more for the parelli side of things. i have no time for the likes of monty and his gang, force is force not matter what other name you give it.

[mayoguinness]

Thats fascinating. Thanks for sharing it with me :D I started with Mayo who was classed as a problem horse and he had got a whole load of problems including rearing etc. at 10 years old and had very little previouse experience!! I've never been a fan of Monty Roberts and since I've started with NH and horses in generel my respect for him as a horseman is very low. I don't agree with the join up thing as he says the horse has got a choice which like maney other things the horse has no choice!! Parelli I go along with a lot more but now I've come to Austrailian NH I find that I agree with that even more and that of course origanated from Parelli. What are your veiws of Aussie NH?? Oh and have you ever heard of FT (friendship training)??

[suneanarab]

hi mayo,

sorry for not getting back to you sooner, i ran out of time.

i haven't paid that much attention to anh or friendship training in the form of studying it indepth due to lack of time. however, they are on my 'to do' list. i will get back to you on them if that's ok?

[mayoguinness]

Yeah that would be great. I'd like to here your opinion on them when you've got enough time. I understand that being a NH trainer must take up a lot of time so don't worry about getting back to me, just whenever your ready and have got time would be great :)

Thanks,

MG.xx

[quests_grace]

Hi, sorry to intrude :p but i was just wondering why you dont like monty roberts and you do like parelli. (i am totally cluless about NH) and you are probably going to find this bad but i went to see a monty roberts demo a few months back and i was actually quite impressed. I'd never seen anything like that and have only seen things done in a forceful way (i know u say monty is forceful but not like some things i've seen). I've never seen parelli demo or anything, only read a few articles.
I really have no idea about backing horses or anything like that but i've always been interested in NH but have never known how to get into it. It always seems so elite, like you have to know the people to get into it. I've looked at trying to get a training course or something so i can get an insight but never know where to start and whats good or whats bad. I find it facsinating though. You both sound as though you are doing a great job :) you are really lucky to be educated about it.

[mayoguinness]

Well there are a lot of differences. Monty Roberts only tends to do the round penning join up thing where as Parelli for example is a whole training system!! Monty seems to think that you do join up and all your problems are solved and thats all that works, as far as I can tell he has never moved on or found better ways which is what we all have to do:) I have to admit to enjoying his books though, they make for a good read:) I reccomend Australian NH, they're are always clinics to go on and you can go from there........check out Jayne Lavenders site, if you sign onto to get updates and stuff it should let you know where clinics are ect. www.jaynelavender.com and this is a very good informative site to:D www.australiannaturalhorsemanship.com/index2.php and of course this one www.naturallyhorses.org.uk/index.html

MG.xx

[suneanarab]

unfortunatly this is the prob with monty and his co. people see the demo and think it's great coz it seems better than what they have been taught as traditional. however, to use halters that tighten and round pens to chace horses and force 'join up' (i prefer to call it progressive bonding), and to use caging to block the horse and give him no option is just as cruel and as any traditional force. to do this and then get on an untouched horse that is neither physically or mentally ready for it is just bad.

it never stops amazing me that his and kelly marks followers advocate all this but have a go at pat parelli for using progressive pressure that very often never reaches the last 2 steps.

as mayo says, pareeli is a great way to start for home study people and it offers a great grounding for both in-hand and ridden. however, i personally mix the game with my own methods and i use classical dressage training to get a better riding style for the horse.

[mayoguinness]

How do you encorporate classicla dressage with NH?? Oh btw do you know if there is such a thing as bitless dressage tests and jumping comps??

[suneanarab]

as far as the bitless dressage tests go there arn't any as far as i know. for jumping i did see someone jump in a rope halter but i think you would have to ask the organiser if you could. i don't really see why you could do dressage in a halter or bitless bridle, but you may have to go non competative coz of the rules. it baffles me, but with the ever increasing amount of people coming into nh maybe opinions will change.

i did see somewhere an advert for a nh comp where people could compete as they wished. but i can't remember where i saw it.

i have trained with classical intructors, sylvia loch, susan atkinson (she and her daughter trained with sylvia) and julia alemany-bird in kent. julia's approach is far more to my liking and to me far more classical as in more natural. i have also read the books by domanique barbier. he is very natural and advocates riding with your mind. he trained with nuno oliviera. the problem with alot of nh is that when it comes to the riding part the horse is often left to its own devices as far as carriage goes. i think this is mainly due to the western influence. as i compete my horses need more elevation and collection which means sitting more on the hocks.

with the more experienced horses it works just great as they can do all this in a halter or bitless.

[Yann]

Quest's Grace, you best bet is to read and watch as much as you can regarding different trainers and methods and see what suits you and your horse and what you're personally comfortable with. I'd take some of what has been written here with a pinch of salt too.

[mayoguinness]

as far as the bitless dressage tests go there arn't any as far as i know. for jumping i did see someone jump in a rope halter but i think you would have to ask the organiser if you could. i don't really see why you could do dressage in a halter or bitless bridle, but you may have to go non competative coz of the rules. it baffles me, but with the ever increasing amount of people coming into nh maybe opinions will change.

i did see somewhere an advert for a nh comp where people could compete as they wished. but i can't remember where i saw it.

i have trained with classical intructors, sylvia loch, susan atkinson (she and her daughter trained with sylvia) and julia alemany-bird in kent. julia's approach is far more to my liking and to me far more classical as in more natural. i have also read the books by domanique barbier. he is very natural and advocates riding with your mind. he trained with nuno oliviera. the problem with alot of nh is that when it comes to the riding part the horse is often left to its own devices as far as carriage goes. i think this is mainly due to the western influence. as i compete my horses need more elevation and collection which means sitting more on the hocks.

with the more experienced horses it works just great as they can do all this in a halter or bitless.

I see. Most comps wont let you ridein bitless I don't think though:rolleyes: I don't get it either:o Thanks for explaining, very interesting:)

Quest's Grace, you best bet is to read and watch as much as you can regarding different trainers and methods and see what suits you and your horse and what you're personally comfortable with. I'd take some of what has been written here with a pinch of salt too.

Indeed, I agree, study and watch everyone as there is so maney different types of NH and you can get something out of most of them and mix and match. As for taking whats writtten here with a pinch of salt...............well I'll leave you to decide on that one, I think our opinions vary a bit here;)

[Yann]

Opinions are one thing, sweeping and factually incorrect statements are another:D

[mayoguinness]

If in your opinion thats what you think they are;)

[suneanarab]

yan i don't think anyone is making sweeping, factually incorrect statements at all. quest's grace asked for our reasoning and it was given. you maybe slightly older than me but i've been doing this alot longer than you. i studied monty roberts in full when he first came here and hated virtually everything he claimed. kelly marks uses his methods and her tightening halters, caging, and round pen 'join up' all of which is forcefull.

i have never used a round pen, caging or tightening halters, wip wops (or whatever it's called) buckstops or the thing they use to stop rearing. and still i get the results. so all i'm saying is is that there is a better way to do it. it may take longer but at least the horse does it willing and not because it has no other choice.

you have your opinion and that is fine. but you don't know me or the work i do, yet you judge me for my opinion without ever having seen me work. at least i have studied it all before making my comments which is alot more than some people do. as for taking things with a pinch of salt, i find that a bit hipocritical when you have just said to watch and learn from everyone.

if using the above methods sits well with you so be it. but for me as someone who has been doing it all without the above for many years, it doesn't sit well with me at all and i have the right to say so. it's about better ways and i find my way better and so do my horses, and the ones i work with. i have had to deal with horses that have been round penned and monty'd, and i don't like the results that i have to correct. neither have the owners.

[evilgiraffe]

Well, good luck with it all, MG! I'm sure that going on tour and practising everything will be very useful to you as well as fun.

I would echo shadowlark in saying that it would help you to get involved in as much as you can - not only will that give you better insights into different ways of training, and different equestrian activities that you maybe don't know much about at present, but it will also help you relate to people in those disciplines better later on.

Also try to keep an open mind and try not to write off any one method, as there may be aspects of all methods (NH or otherwise) that will be useful to you and the people you teach. If you are too rigid then you will find the teaching difficult, and your pupils may not like every aspect of your personal views (even if they like most of them). For instance, have you completely written off Monty Roberts in favour of Parelli? If you look into it you might find that MR has some ways of doing things that match or complement Parelli. Certainly don't ignore what people have to say just because you've already decided that you don't agree with them before they open their mouths. People who may at first glance not agree with any of your opinions may turn out to agree with more of them than you think - so be wary of being prejudiced!

I know that your personal opinions on NH go for the 24/7 turnout, no tack etc way of doing things - but this doesn't mean that you can't engage well with people who love their horses but also stable them and ride with a bit. As long as you're not judgemental or holier-than-thou you'll probably be fine.

I'm sure that anyone who calls out an NH trainer for instruction is either pro-NH already, or willing to give it (or aspects of it) a go, so I doubt you'd get lots of abuse anyway!

NB - where I've said things like "don't be judgemental", I'm not saying that you are like this, I'm just saying that it's something to be aware of and to be avoided as much as possible :)

[mayoguinness]

yan i don't think anyone is making sweeping, factually incorrect statements at all. quest's grace asked for our reasoning and it was given. you maybe slightly older than me but i've been doing this alot longer than you. i studied monty roberts in full when he first came here and hated virtually everything he claimed. kelly marks uses his methods and her tightening halters, caging, and round pen 'join up' all of which is forcefull.

i have never used a round pen, caging or tightening halters, wip wops (or whatever it's called) buckstops or the thing they use to stop rearing. and still i get the results. so all i'm saying is is that there is a better way to do it. it may take longer but at least the horse does it willing and not because it has no other choice.

you have your opinion and that is fine. but you don't know me or the work i do, yet you judge me for my opinion without ever having seen me work. at least i have studied it all before making my comments which is alot more than some people do. as for taking things with a pinch of salt, i find that a bit hipocritical when you have just said to watch and learn from everyone.

if using the above methods sits well with you so be it. but for me as someone who has been doing it all without the above for many years, it doesn't sit well with me at all and i have the right to say so. it's about better ways and i find my way better and so do my horses, and the ones i work with. i have had to deal with horses that have been round penned and monty'd, and i don't like the results that i have to correct. neither have the owners.

I agree with you, of course my lack of experience in this area means I can't say much more about it;)

Well, good luck with it all, MG! I'm sure that going on tour and practising everything will be very useful to you as well as fun.

I would echo shadowlark in saying that it would help you to get involved in as much as you can - not only will that give you better insights into different ways of training, and different equestrian activities that you maybe don't know much about at present, but it will also help you relate to people in those disciplines better later on.

Also try to keep an open mind and try not to write off any one method, as there may be aspects of all methods (NH or otherwise) that will be useful to you and the people you teach. If you are too rigid then you will find the teaching difficult, and your pupils may not like every aspect of your personal views (even if they like most of them). For instance, have you completely written off Monty Roberts in favour of Parelli? If you look into it you might find that MR has some ways of doing things that match or complement Parelli. Certainly don't ignore what people have to say just because you've already decided that you don't agree with them before they open their mouths. People who may at first glance not agree with any of your opinions may turn out to agree with more of them than you think - so be wary of being prejudiced!

I know that your personal opinions on NH go for the 24/7 turnout, no tack etc way of doing things - but this doesn't mean that you can't engage well with people who love their horses but also stable them and ride with a bit. As long as you're not judgemental or holier-than-thou you'll probably be fine.

I'm sure that anyone who calls out an NH trainer for instruction is either pro-NH already, or willing to give it (or aspects of it) a go, so I doubt you'd get lots of abuse anyway!

NB - where I've said things like "don't be judgemental", I'm not saying that you are like this, I'm just saying that it's something to be aware of and to be avoided as much as possible :)

Thanks evilgiraffe, your right of course and I shall hold from judgement before I've learnt about the style of training and horsemanship. Thanks for the advice:)

[quests_grace]

thanks for your replies guys, I just wondered as like i said i didn't have a clue what the difference was, so thanks for all your answers :)
I know i am gonna get serious hissing now :o but i am currently doing BHS exams :o (no spitting please) but once i have done this training (I hope to gain my AI) I would like to be able to incorporate a more natural approach to my teaching and understandings. There are loads of things that I would like to try and experience but I wasnt very clear on the things available so all of your opinions have greatly helped thank you :D :) and thanks for the links Mayo :)

[mayoguinness]

No problem...........I won't hiss don't worry though I'm not at all for the BHS thing;) Its good that your looking into more natural aprouches though, a lot of people just don't bother:o

[suneanarab]

i did my bhs exams and the nvq so that i could get my insurance and so on. but it did change my style of riding which my horses hated. i was very glad when it was all over and i could go back to what my horses and myself enjoy better.

my eldest son is current studying to be a farrier. as part of his course this year he has had to do an nvq 2 in horse care management. when he's asked a question he has given 2 answers where needed, the way they expect it done and the way we do it. his tutor has been very open to this and even asked him to take down some of our equipment to show the others on the course how to use it. so natural is creeping in there.

[quests_grace]

Thats good to hear! I am doing my BHS & NVQ's for more or less the same reasons as you sueanarab, and yes it very restrictive, I cant wait til I can start exploring NH & other methods. But need to get BHS done first so I've got that stability behind me. :cool:

[suneanarab]

well good luck with it all!! let us know how you get on with the exams. it doesn't hurt to start reading up on things though. one of my favorite books is by dominique barbier called dressage for the new age. it's a great approach that you may find helps you to be a lighter rider if nothing else. his ridden work ties in great with nh.