Curly has to have shoes back on :(

[CurlyWurlyRach]

*heaves a huge sigh*
The farrier was out today with his new sidekick (i think it was his brother who is also a farrier.) other guy commented that she had wonderful feet and my farrier agreed that they were lovely and strong.
When Curly was in hard jumping work her front feet were splitting, not too badly but still cracking at the bottoms, i mentioned this to the farrier now shes coming back into work and he said that if im wanting to jump her at the level she's capable of them she'll ''be alot better with shoes'', i also mentioned her slipping on the roads and occasionally in the school and again, she could have road nails and shoes to help :(

She's going to need studs to jump high levels on grass in summer anyways so should I start having her shod now to transition (she's been barefoot almost 1.5 years)?

Im abit gutted really! I like my £20 bill every 2 months for a simple rasp and now im looking at £60-odd for non-slippy shoes!!
Front
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a44/lord_w_rox/Picture006-5.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a44/lord_w_rox/Picture008-3.jpg
back
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a44/lord_w_rox/Picture010-2.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a44/lord_w_rox/Picture012-2.jpg


ETA - wasnt sure where to put this thread but as she's barefoot atm i went for this forum!

[Nik-n-Kia]

i wish kias feet looked like that!!!!!

Would she get away with just maybe fronts if you weren't into full shoeing???

I know nowt so not really wanting to give any advice sorry!!!

Lovely feet tho!!!!!!

Nikki xxxxxxx :D

[coss]

is it just me or do her feet seem a little (and i mean a tiny bit) upright. how much road work do you do because normally horses have more grip without shoes than with (unless you have studs).
I don't think horses need that long to get accustomed to shoes again. when i had my mare shod last year (after being barefoot for about 9years!) she didn't like being shod (i think that is due to her age and stiffness though) but once the shoes were on she was fine. didn't bat an eyelid. she is now barefoot again (has been for about 20weeks and still trying to get hold of a farrier :mad: ) and coping fine.

[CurlyWurlyRach]

gotta confess Coss, i wouldnt know an upright hoof from an upside down one!
I think she looks quite short in front tho (piccies were takes before she was rasped btw).

we dont do much roadwork at all currently, but im trying! its mainly for jumping.

[No_Angel]

im not a huge hoof expert, but her feet look a bit long and the heels look a bit long and mishaped on one foot to me. Also doesnt look to be much concavity, which will aid traction.

just to compare, this is my tbs feet end of last year, having just over a year barefoot, her feet are no where near perfect and still very flat
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/madams_walk/maddie/PICT0006-1.jpg

[CurlyWurlyRach]

*blinks in nonplussed fashion*

Im a hoof dunce! i thought they looked short :o
since they're quite flat, is that why she's slipping?

[coss]

well i would say that this is hoof doesn't have enough slope (ignoring the huge crack as well!)
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/78/205578638_a3dfc71077_o.jpg
although this is the back hooves i think the angle is just less severe and therefore is less likely to give concussion to the rest of the leg.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/57/204771236_45e3dcb8d9_o.jpg

[coss]

*blinks in nonplussed fashion*

Im a hoof dunce! i thought they looked short :o
since they're quite flat, is that why she's slipping?

if they're flat underneath then there isn't anything on the bottom to grip with, there should be some parts (can't think of the name) on either side of the frog that will grow to give the horse natural studs.
I think your horse has the opposite problem to mine, my horses toes are too long, your horses look too short IMO.

[No_Angel]

barefoot feet do tend to be quite short compared to shod feet, i alwaus think the horses at uni have horrible long feet, holes just look so wierd now.

maddies feet arent perfect by any means, but some more pics
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/madams_walk/maddie/PICT0001-1.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/madams_walk/maddie/PICT0002-1.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/madams_walk/maddie/PICT0003-2.jpg

[coss]

with slightly more rolling on the toes i would say that is a good length. i don't have current pics but my horse's feet are probably slightly longer than that... as i said previously, my mare's feet have gone over 20 weeks after having her shoes off and her feet don't look much different to those you have posted.

[MelanieD]

A bit of splitting around the bottom is nothing to worry about, could probably stop it completely with more regular trimming and keeping the edges rolled. It's usually just the foot trying to get rid of excess growth, though landing from jumping would put more pressure on excess length and make any splitting worse. The heels look high and front frog looks contracted, though can't tell from pics if heels can be brought down right now or if you need to find a way to get more pressure on the frog to improve the frog so the frog can expand and eventually be able to take the heels down. You might be surprised at how much jumping it is possible to do without shoes. It's hard to tell from pics but the soles do look quite flat which would have a bad effect on grip.

OTOH nothing wrong with shoeing if they are needed for the work you are doing, not like you can attach studs without shoes. Most horses I've seen shod after not having shoes on for a while do a funny walk for a few mins, maybe take a day or so to get used to it at worse so you don't really need a long time for getting used to shoes. You can always just put them on when really needed for competing and go without the rest of the year.

[Rips]

Why don't you see how shes goes without shoes before you change? If barefoot is what you want. Personally I like shoes for reliability :o the only time my horse is ever lame is without them :p


I suppose the attraction with shoes for higher levels of jumping is that you can put in different types of studs according to the conditions.

[Shadowlark]

Just to add.. I evented in the 3* class as a teenager - barefoot (well Ok I had boots on me ;) It meant I had to do some rasping myself to keep the toe tidy - but this was before we have had "barefoot trims" and no my horse didn't have exceptionaly nice feet :)

My advice is if you want to pursue barefoot - you need to educate yourself. I am not keen on the trim you have on her right now. It looks amature to me, and her heel does look long - she also has no concavity that I can see in those photos - which she should after so long being barefoot. But that may just be the photos - lighting and camera angles can do strange things which is why I hate giving specific advice without the hoof in my hand.

[Yann]

Although some horses naturally have more upright feet than others I'd agree from looking at the photos at least that the heels look much too long. I would also second the comment about keeping the toe rolled between trims to prevent minor chipping and cracking, a healthy unshod hoof is far more efficient at absorbing the impact energy of a landing than one with a shoe on. There are quite a few horses eventing regularly without shoes and they have no problems at all, the only time it would be an issue and might cause problems is if the feet weren't balanced properly.

I'm surprised about the slipping on the road, and the school for that matter too, all I can assume is that the frog isn't playing a full part, both my horses have velcro feet even on the most polished surfaces.

If you need to shoe for the show season then that's fine, but I wouldn't just take your farrier's assistant's word for it. I also think those feet could be so much better with a proper barefoot trim, it would cost you less than those shoes ;)

[CurlyWurlyRach]

i think she just gets a pasture trim atm but the main thing that bothers me is the slipping - shes gone down and landed on my leg outside before - which hurt! Indoors it doesnt help that we do everything at 1000mph in a small arena :o

mum almost passed out when i mentioned how much shoes cost today (even though i pay).

[sheryl]

Hi,
I'm not an expert, but I wouldn't be happy with the shape of Curly's feet at all.
In the second photo the foot is far wider on the right hand side, than the left. The shape should be even both sides.
The heels are much too long, and the toes are far too short, front and back. This makes her very upright, and causes far greater concussion. Especially if you're jumping her.
I certainly wouldn't put shoes on them, as they are.

I would find a different farrier, and get the shape sorted out first. Its always awkward to change farriers, but you have to put the horse first.

You don't necessarily need a trimmer. I use a normal farrier for my trims, and I'm really pleased with him. He costs £15.

I have read your posts before about Curly's behaviour on the roads, and I was wondering if she could be foot sore. I think in the long run, it would be worth putting on front shoes, and you may see an improvement out hacking. It may explain why she's better going out in hand, than with a rider on board.
Without a rider a horse carries 60% weight on the front and 40% back. With a rider, the horse carries atleast 70% on the front, so it could make a difference to Curlys unshod front feet.
Worth a try anyway;)

[Loopy_Laura]

Cant comment on the shape of her feet, by why not just keep her barefoot until you really need shoes?

[Bebe]

If you want to put shoes on that's your prerogative.

I wouldn't do it with that farrier though, he's been doing a pretty poor job without hammering a shoe over the top.

The heels are long (huge deep collateral grooves), both front feet skew off to one side (so not balanced around the coffin bone), the frogs appear to be quite infected, the bars are overgrown (probably in an attempt to provide support that the heels can't give) and there's a lot of false sole.

[Lgd]

From the POV of jumping to any decent level on grass he is quite right that you will probably need shoes/studs as the arenas tend to be quite hard and with the tiniest bit of rain can be become very slippery before it get deep enough to give you an adequate grip.

Would be interesting to see what her feet look like after they have been trimmed - I'm assuming the above pics are before he trimmed her.

Peri has been barefoot all round for over 12 months but as her work has increased she was getting uneven wear on her forefeet (she does dish) and getting quite footy with it. Put her foreshoes back on about a month ago and it showed how restricted she had been making her movement on rough ground (she had no problem on the arena) to compensate as her strides immediately opened up. I've left her barefoot behind and she is coping well so will keep her that way.

[hackedoff]

I hope I dont come across as rude here but I agree with Bebe- if you want to shoe who are we to gainsay you but OMG that trim is 'orrible sorry. Those fronts are completely wonky, I'm not surprised she is slipping, with that and the fact her heels are so long at the back she must be skating on the roads!
In effect, this farrier has done a lousy job of transitioning your horse to barefoot and is now offering shoeing as a solution. Well what a surprise (£!). If you want to stay barefoot get an EP in pronto babe.

[CurlyWurlyRach]

Im off to the yard now so will gt some new pics (she was trimmed thursday) and id be REALLY greatful if the hoof experts couild take a look :) I'll put them up into a new thread in a few hours.
thanks muchly :)

[Rips]

Would be interestng to see pics of her feet now (post trim) Maybe Sheryl might have hit the nail on the head about the hacking? Something nobody else has thought of on any of the threads about her behaviour.