Barefoot horses ... do you use a trimmer or a farrier?

[Bay Mare]

For those of you who've got barefoot horses do you use a farrier or a barefoot trimmer? Or do you do your own?

Which 'school' did you choose and why?

How long has your horse been barefoot and how are they doing?


Saff has been barefoot for nearly 2 years now. She's been EP trimmed from the start by 3 different trimmers. We went down the EP route because the trimmer was coming to the yard anyway. I have researched different methods since then and I would still go down the EP route even if I had the choice because it's the method that makes more sense to me and I'm more comfortable with.

I would be happy to have an AANHCP or Peter Laidely trim. I wouldn't use a farrier because my experiences with a farrier trim weren't exactly positive looking back on it.

We were quite lucky in that she pretty much transitioned overnight. I don't think that she'd had shoes on that long so hadn't lost too much structure. She's sound on all surfaces and hasn't been limited at all (touch wood). We've never had to go down the hoof boot route but I would have done had it been necessary.

After my experience of going barefoot it's definitely something that I would want to try with any horse that I owned. I would never say never to shoes, though, as circumstances change. I just hope that I never *need* to put shoes on her ever again.

[Maddison's girl]

Snowman has been barefoot all his life, he is 16 now. We have him trimmed by our farrier when he comes to do the others. His feet are in excellent condition. Doesnt seem to bother him what sort of ground he is on.

[incognito]

Thankfully my farrier actually LISTENS... when I explained what I was trying to achieve he worked with me.......he was doubtful at first and explained his reasons, now though we have been bf for over a year, so his trim is working.

[Showjumper]

Dolly's barefoot and farrier trimmed by a brilliant farrier :D He adores bare feet (I think he prefers them to shoes lol!) and does a lovely, balanced trim with fabulous mustang rolls. He always listens and is available on the phone whenever I have a question (no matter how stupid it is). If I can't explain something, I can text him a photo and he'll ring me with an answer. LOVE my farrier! :)

[coss]

both of my horses are barefoot and i use a farrier. when i got my first pony we didn't know any thing other than "farrier" so we chose farrier. She had reasonable feet except the week laminae (laminitus :() When we got my mare the previous owner had already arranged for her current farrier to come to us and he did a really nice job.
Admittedly i have had a lot of farriers and some have been rubbish. (the farrier above left to go into teaching farriery).
My last farrier did end up putting shoes on my mare but that was because i didn't want to go down the boots root at the time. when she didn't grow enough hoof for shoes (late summer!) he took them off and trimmed the feet down telling us to expect them to look worse pretty soon. they didn't because her feet don't grow. He told us about the "professional barefoot trimmer" and told me they charge the same as he charges for shoes and does what he does when he trims. he takes a lot of time over balance and my horses feet were wonderful. he left and now i've got to wait until tuesday to find out how good the next farrier will be.
I have no idea if there are EP's in my area... its hard enough finding a farrier. a lot of the farriers are older too and possibly passed it. one of them just wouldn't listen and kept filing the feet so they became flatter - lame horse :mad: so i'm sure there are good and bad farriers/barefoot trimmer out there, its just finding the right person.

[mayoguinness]

Mayo's barefoot and is Strasser trimmed!! I think I must be the only one on here to have a horse trimmed in this way!! I rasp his hooves under supervision but I don't trim them at the mo. He's always been sound on hard and soft ground, even galloped over stones a couple of times and is always sound!! None of the horses at the yard are lame on Strasser but they are trimmed very well :D

[MelanieD]

Both of mine are trimmed by an EP, with some interfering from me between visits. There wasn't much choice when I was looking for a trimmer, an EP qualified in my area the same week my farrier managed to damage himself and I'd been wanting to try barefoot for a while. There's a bit more choice now and I'd still choose the same EP. Most farriers would have thought fatty's feet needed shoes, and I'm less than impressed with most of the ones in my area.

Roxy has been barefoot over 2 years, sound over everything, brakes seriously faulty (she's the one tanking off up a quarry track on the EPA website), can hardly recognise the feet as the same ones as the horrible things she had when shod (flat feet, thin soles, massive cracks, white line disease..). Had a slight setback last spring when she got let loose on too much grass and had a mild bout of laminitis but that damage is grown out now. She does up to about 3 hours on roads and stoney tracks without ever needing boots and could easily do more.

Mia wasn't ever shod but had a seriously wonky foot and had lots of abcesses before I got her. Now been barefoot and trimmed by an EP for over a year and is sound over everything and hasn't had an abcess since just before her first trim. Her feet aren't totally pretty at the moment because locking stifles and a few other problems have given some 'interesting' wear. It's quite interesting to see what happened to her feet to compensate for the other problems and how they're starting to go back to normal again now she's had a couple of visits from an osteopath.

[martini55]

Martini has been barefoot for approx. 3 weeks now. I had an EP come out and assess her feet a week past Sunday and now she will be taking over the trimming :) I chose an EP after researching on the internet and after people from various boards thoroughly recommended them. I was impressed by the way my EP handled my horse and explained everything to me. I like the fact that they look into management as well, rather than just the trim itself.

So now my horse is on MagOx and tomorrow my EP is dropping off our hoof boots so we can start our exercise program- walking out in hand in boots and pads for 10mins, gradually increasing to 20mins per day.

Our transition will probably take quite a bit longer than most as Martini is laminitic and her feet are rather poor. However, she does seem to be improving. She was a bit hobbly some days to begin with, now she is just taking careful small steps when walking on harder ground. She is sound on soft ground however. It's quite funny really, taking last night for example- she came charging out her field, attempted to drag me over to a patch of grass and as soon as we hit the road she slowed right down and took very careful steps. She must know what she can and can't do.

[capalldubh]

I had done a fair bit of research on feet last summer when the mare I was sharing had strangles and no farrier would visit. Fortunately, she has excellent feet which stand up well to all sorts of abuse, and self trim. I ended up riding her out gently barefoot on tarmac after she was out of quarantine and her feet - with no intervention - just started to look better and better. Unfortunately , her owner prefers that she has shoes, so they got put back on at the end of the summer...

When I got Jackson in October, I had every intention of going barefoot and he appeared to have good feet, just very long toes. However the farrier didn't respond to calls for 3 weeks, by which time Jackson had pulled a shoe and stood on a nail - the farrier reshod him and 3 weeks later the horse had a very nasty abscess. The vet pulled the shoe, pointed out a lot of flare, and treated the abscess. The farrier came out the following week - I asked what we should do and he said "put the shoe back on, of course". The abscess flared up again 3 days later. The shoe was pulled by the vet again and I booked an EP who pulled the remaining 3. That was 21st December.

It has not been easy. The horse was in a lot of discomfort for quite some time - partly from the abscess, partly from very thin soles and wall, partly from bad internal structures. I found it hard to watch him hobble around on soft ground - he was completely unable to walk on any rough ground or gravel.

It is 3 months now - we walk out for 40 minutes most days in boots and pads, and he is very comfortable - from about the 3rd day, he would hold up his feet to get the boots on. He is completely sound in the field, and charges around on all surfaces. I suspect he would be a lot better on the road now too but I'm happy to give him a bit longer and would like to see the feet growing more.

So I went with EP because Scotland is a bit of a trimmer desert and she was the nearest person willing to do what I wanted. In principle I would also have been happy with a Peter Laidley or AANHCP person. The farrier who doesn't return calls does pasture trims on the horses that share the field with Jackson (when he turns up). Their feet look completely different and although happy in the field, I wouldn't want to try them out on roads. Farriers seem to believe that if there's anything wrong or odd about the shape of the foot, it can only be changed through shoeing, but they will trim to maintain current shape if not requested to shoe. I'm sure there are exceptions to this, but none around me... However, like Martini55 (who I suspect uses the same EP :) ), I want someone who will discuss the horse's management and how that might affect his feet, and also someone who returns phone calls and emails (especially in an emergency). So far, that's been my EP experience, long may it last :D

[mayoguinness]

ok this is guuna sound like a stupid question, but what sort of a trim is EP??

[Shadowlark]

Splash was barefoot, trimmed by a ferrier and then I would roll him after the farrier left. He was a laminatic and had Ring bone - had been lame more then 2 years due in no small part to his "corrective" shoeing. Splash could work a 10 hour day and still maintaind excellent feet despite them being.. WHITE!

Currently going it alone Peter Ramey style with some adjustments notably to rear heel height. All I use is a good rasp and a good eye. (HA I hope it's good or my horses are goners!) All my riding horses trot out sound on gravel roads (all I have for miles around) and have all transitioned very smoothly to having thier shoes off - I have yet to have a lay up although I have ridden thru some tender tootsie times. I am not currently using any boots on anyone - but I do believe they can be very beneficial

[mayoguinness]

Do you not use a knife??

[Tootsie4U]

My farrier in NY and the one I just found here in PA are certified farriers who specialize in 'balanced' and 'corrective' trims.

[Shadowlark]

Do you not use a knife??

no never - I want my soles well caloused, that's what protects them. My frogs naturaly shed and maintain.

[KarinUS]

no never - I want my soles well caloused, that's what protects them. My frogs naturaly shed and maintain.

Don't have much time and will write more to Bay Mare's original question later but wanted to say:
IMHO most trims that use knives, use them for the bars. In a naturally concave hoof it will be very difficult to rasp the bars (unless you have some kind of curved rasp? :confused: ).

[KarinUS]

Okay ...baby still sleeping so I'll see how far I get:

DJ and Bixby have been barefoot for 2 years. Minose has never been shod and she will turn 3 in May.

Bixby came to us barefoot and we briefly put her in shoes but she was kind of our inspiration to going natural. Seriously (from barefoot to bitless to treeless to having my baby at home with midwives - it's all Bixby's fault :D )

We started out with an SHP. The SHP was the most highly trained trimmer I had access to at that time. I had the same worries most people have when they hear Strasser but our SHP was super and also very open to adjusting her method to whatever worked best for the horse. She started trimming our horses with the understanding that she would coach us and eventually we would take over. (She lived 2 hours away from us and didn't make it into the area frequently enough). We also attended a Martha Olivo Seminar and practiced at 'Cadaver Days'. Cadaver Trim days are kind of gross. The Texas Natural Hoofcare group puts them on. They buy cadaver legs from the slaughterhouse and you can bring your tools and trim cadaver hooves.
I found that really helpful. I hate to think of all the people that read a book or watch a video and then start widdling away at their (live) horses. :eek:

So for awhile we did a Olivo kind of trim. When I became pregnant OH started trimming by himself and then ventured more towards Ramey. With Ramey's trim though we started to develop a lot of false sole.
Initially we were silly enough to think that we were growing callous! LOL :blush:

I was getting interested in KC LaPierre and even though I really don't like his personality I have to say that after only a few months of HPT I do see nice things happen to their feet. They lost their false sole completely on their own. No sole carving or anything. It just popped off once the trim was more balanced. Now we have nice soles. I think OH may modify it slightly for each horse as he goes along but overall I think the HPT is something that looks very promising to us.

How are they doing? To be honest the sad part is that no matter what trim we were using they always did better than shod. All this studying and training just to find out that lots of different techniques work pretty well.

My pride and joy is my TB, DJ. He used to be my worry child. He'd been shod since age 2 (race horse) and had typical TB feet. Whenever he lost a shoe I would duct tape rubber padding to his feet and immediately call the farrier out. One day without a shoe and his wall would crumble away enough to require acrylic rebuilding of the wall in order to nail another shoe to it.
I also agreed to all kinds of remedial farriery. Several years in Natural Balance shoes with and without wedges, trying to grow a heel. Of course he never grew a heel. All they did was put him on his toes - so much though that at one point the vet suggested a spinal tab to check him for EPM because of his stumbling. He also used to look over-at-the-knee. Now that his hoof is more underneath him he doesn't have to compensate any longer with his leg/knee and his front legs look straight/normal now. :)

So: They all are doing great. We did transition with hoof boots and because our soil in turnout is very loose I would still put boots on in rocky terrain but I really can't think of an instance in which I would go back to shoes.

[mayoguinness]

You never use a knife?? You must need some pretty good ground form the hoof to wear down naturally then?? I mean having read A Life Time of Soundness by Dr. Strasser I got the impression that in a perfect world and situation she would like the hooves to be warn down naturally so you didn't need to scoup the sole and the frog and bars wore down themselvs into a natural shape but obviously its hard to get the right terrain for that to happen so therefore you need to trim it down so the new hoof can come through and down and to get rid of the old so the hoof can expand and be healthy(certaintly in the uk)!!

[Shadowlark]

Don't have much time and will write more to Bay Mare's original question later but wanted to say:
IMHO most trims that use knives, use them for the bars. In a naturally concave hoof it will be very difficult to rasp the bars (unless you have some kind of curved rasp? :confused: ).

I can honestly say I never touch my horses bars, again they are self maintaining.

My horses shed on the foot quite naturaly have a good concave sould and "rock crushing" feet. I maintain the outer hoof wall and that's about it.

[mayoguinness]

Really?? Well I wish Mayo's were self maintaining!! What sort of terrain have you got for them to go over??

[Stella2]

Flora has been barefoot for 19 months (the first 7 months turned away with a pasture trim as she was lame with sidebone). She has always been trimmed by my farrier. It evolved that way. When she came back into work he was working closely with my vet on remedial shoeing. However, she only had about 6 weeks of this when the farrier suggested that since we were simply trying to mimic barefoot and she had such good feet, we should try her barefoot. He and my Vet discussed it and agreed. He has trimmed her ever since at a cost of £15 every 6 weeks in the summer, less frequently in Spring and Autumn and, although she is checked in the winter, she hasn't needed trimming at all from November through March for the past two years! Despite the concerns of many about farriers trimming barefoot ridden horses, she has never been uncomfortable or lame with it.

[Shadowlark]

Really?? Well I wish Mayo's were self maintaining!! What sort of terrain have you got for them to go over??

hmm typical prairie pasture.. 80 acres of rough grass, some hills there own stream and pond - then they ride out over gravel.

[gwyngyll]

All of our family’s horses are barefoot at the moment and the one I loan is also, she is an Arab X (15.3hh). The farrier trims her about once every 10 to 12 weeks.

I think it depends on the type of horse, Arabs apparently have hard hooves, so I’ve been told.

[mayoguinness]

Sounds great shadowlark, if only I had somewhere like that for Mayo!! I'll keep dreaming ;)

[Shadowlark]

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h123/EvilAero/dsc01894.jpg

That's my back pasture after a rain storm... See the trees? they mark the south boundary of my pasture..the eastern boundary is about as far away :)

They are a very happy little herd :)

[Tootsie4U]

I could die a happy woman if I had a place like that.

Did you ever find that pot of gold? :D

[Shadowlark]

Sure did!!



http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h123/EvilAero/KEANNAFACE.jpg

[mayoguinness]

Stop tourturing me :p :p :p

[MelanieD]

ok this is guuna sound like a stupid question, but what sort of a trim is EP??

EP is KC LaPierre's method. The trimmers are called EPs - equine podiatrists.

[capalldubh]

This thread has been an interesting read, thanks BayMare :)

Shadowlark - I am green with envy :D

I am celebrating today because at the end of our walk out I took the Old Macs off in a different place than usual. I hadn't thought ahead, and then realised we had to walk over gravel to get back to the field - which Jackson did without a single flinch! Yay! Barefoot is working! :D

[eventerbabe]

kestral is barefoot right now (never had shoes on as he's only 3 ;) ) and we've taken the decision to keep him that way. Seems pointless putting shoes on him when all the walking he does just now on roads and tracks is conditioning his already superb feet. We shall be sticking with out farrier who does a smashing job. Unlike some, he's very up on his barefoot knowledge and research and supports our decision.

[mayoguinness]

Thanks for EP explanation, I just call em barefoot trimmers :p :D

[Yann]

Not all barefoot trimmers are EP's, it's normally used by the ones who are certified in KC LaPierre's HPT trim. My horses are currently trimmed by UKNHCP trimmers but I'm hoping to pick up enough to start doing at least some maintenance trimming myself with their support.

We were previously trimmed by an EP but the trim didn't appear to suit one horse and there was evidently a difference of opinion about how much work the other one was capable of (nobody asked the horse ;) ).

[mayoguinness]

Didn't suit Mayo either. He was trimmed by a "EP" trimmer and he went lame and everyone was really worried about him. One Strasser trim and he competely sound again :D