Is this horse to thin?

[Waikato Valuta]

This is Jackson today. I am quite worried about his weight. He was verging on obese when I brought him last September (spring time). He was just living on pasture then I started feeding him once a day, and now he is getting fed twice a day, and he looks like he is still losing weight. I can count 9 ribs by sight.

He gets wormed every 6-12 weeks depending on the cycle and what wormer I am using. He gets worked 4 times a week but no more than 30 min of fairly light work, He barely breaks a sweat.

He is in a group paddock so I can’t feed him ad lib hay unless I want to be feeding everyone else’s horses as well. I have requested a private paddock, but they are all full.

What do you think of his weight and how would you try to improve his condition?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/Waikato_Valuta/Jackson22-03-2007/Jackson.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/Waikato_Valuta/Jackson22-03-2007/Jackson-1.jpg

To prove I’m not some abusive horse person here is a photo of my other horse who keeps this weight despite being on the same pasture and only getting a token about of Lucerne chaff at night.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/Waikato_Valuta/Jackson22-03-2007/Maddock.jpg

And this is keg who gets nothing, and I mean NOTHING. Just pasture, what little there is.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/Waikato_Valuta/Jackson22-03-2007/Keg.jpg

[Bebe]

I'm sorry but I think he looks really poor.

He needs more food full stop, preferably fibre based.

What are you currently feeding him?

[Denbenj]

Some horses do liturally live on fresh air, Some clearly dont.. I would 2nd Bebes idea of Fibre Based diet, and would start introducing it gradually to.. I personally would feed a handful 3 times a day and build up to increased size.

WOuld you not be able to fence of an area within the paddock hes in..just to let you feed him adlib hay? surely the yard owner can see he really needs more than the others.. Infact I would DEMAND it!

all the best with him x He looks a real sweety

[Jessey]

Honestly :o he looks pretty poor, given that your pastures look pretty bare I would definatly want hay out there, but as you say you can't right now :( I would talk to the YO again and insist that on medical grounds he needs to be in a pasture that gives him free access to hay....perhaps there is another horse similar you could share with and split the hay cost with? or perhaps you could use electric to fence him off a corner in his current pasture until a private pasture is available?

What is he fed at the moment? I would want to get him on feeds 3 times a day if you can, Alfa is a great base, and adding some oil to that will add calories without bulk, I have found linseed to be very effective (I feed it ground which is easier than in the oil form) you may also need to add some conditioning or senior (higher calorie than standard) pre mixed feed to his rations and I would also seriously consider a probiotic to help him get the most from his feed, either one specially for horses or see if he will eat live natural yougurt (one of mine will the other won't :rolleyes: ):D

TBH if he is still loosing weight I would also halt his work schedule until you can get it under control.

I would also try and get a feceal worm count done, to make sure he isn't wormy, I know you worm him but maybe he has some resistant worms or a bigger burden than single doses can kill off (my mare had that when we first got her).

Could you try bringing him in during the day, perhaps the heat is effecting him? at least then he could also have ad lib hay :p

If you do all this and he continues to drop weight then I would be thinking about getting a vet out (within the next couple of weeks) to run bloods etc, the fact he was nice and round in september and is now very underweight would really worry me, he has dropped off so much in 1/2 a year (and most do better in the summer) and you are clearly trying to feed him enough and he is not working overly hard, I really would be worried there is something more wrong there.

J x

[Mehitabel]

yes, he is thin. if he were in england i'd say the imminent spring grass would fatten him up, but i'm not sure where you are inthe seasons in Oz. if you're coming intro autumn or winter i'd be quite worried. get his teeth checked, and also if you can a worm count done and get the vet to check your worming regime, as resistance can occur which means worming is not effective.
teeth would be my first though - if it's not that then there may be sometihng wrong internally that means he's not utilising his feed well enough, so the vet is a must.

[Waikato Valuta]

I don't know the weight of the feed he is getting. The hay is really heavy, and lush, so he gets two large biscuits of that in the morning.

Then at night he gets another biscuit and a hard feed which includes:

4 scoops of Lucerne chaff
2 scoops of Mitavit Breeda
1 Scoop on Steam Rolled Barly
1 Table Spoon of Dolamite

This fills the best part of a 20 litre bucket.

I am going to ask if it is possible to separate him, but I don’t think they will let me. I just moved him there in order to get him feed twice a day instead of the once he was getting at the other place.

If I can separate him I will give him a round bale and two large feeds a day.

I have been trying to find other agistment but everywhere I ring is full.

We are just heading out of summer and into autumn over here. We are in a terrible drought where feed prices have gone up over 5 times the normal price, I was paying $5 per bale last spring and just this week it hit $25. But the cost would not stop me feeding more.

Do you think oil or some more processed feed would help?

[Herbie's mummy]

He is thin, very thin in my eyes.
Horse 2 seems to have a ''sway''? back.....sorry don't know why i have mentioned that.:S just popped up at me.

[Waikato Valuta]

Yes Maddock (horse 2) has quite a sway back. He was born with it but it's never really given him any problems.

[parsharainbow]

To prove I’m not some abusive horse person here is a photo of my other horse who keeps this weight despite http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/Waikato_Valuta/Jackson22-03-2007/Maddock.jpg



Sorry but I don't think this one has kept his weight particularly well either :o although he's not as poor as the first. I also wouldn't be happy with the way he's standing, he's very 'under' himself with his back legs and looks very poor over his back, is he in work? am just wondering whether its lack of top-line or lack of condition in general? I am concerned about the way he's standing though - Sorry :o

Just to add one of my horses stands like that too and he's got a tilted pelvis and a weak back - he's now retired, lost muscle and has that 'sway' back like yours - which is why I asked if he/she was in work?

[KAB]

I don't know the weight of the feed he is getting. The hay is really heavy, and lush, so he gets two large biscuits of that in the morning.

Then at night he gets another biscuit and a hard feed which includes:

4 scoops of Lucerne chaff
2 scoops of Mitavit Breeda
1 Scoop on Steam Rolled Barly
1 Table Spoon of Dolamite

This fills the best part of a 20 litre bucket.

I am going to ask if it is possible to separate him, but I don’t think they will let me. I just moved him there in order to get him feed twice a day instead of the once he was getting at the other place.

If I can separate him I will give him a round bale and two large feeds a day.

I have been trying to find other agistment but everywhere I ring is full.

We are just heading out of summer and into autumn over here. We are in a terrible drought where feed prices have gone up over 5 times the normal price, I was paying $5 per bale last spring and just this week it hit $25. But the cost would not stop me feeding more.

Do you think oil or some more processed feed would help?


The owner of the yard should see that he isnt well and offer you some support. If they arent prepared to section some grazing off for you, then i would have to question whether i would want my horse there - because on that basis it would show that they are purely in it for themselves ie. money - your money...... not your horses well being. Good luck and keep us posted!

[parsharainbow]

Yes Maddock (horse 2) has quite a sway back. He was born with it but it's never really given him any problems.

cross posted with you :)

Does he always stand like that? he definately looks uncomfortable

[Mehitabel]

no, processed feed is unlikely to help - i think you need a vet, to rule out teeth, worms or digestive problems.

to go from obese to that weight in 6 motnhs is serious, and that's not an insignificant amount of feed he is getting.

[parsharainbow]

I don't know the weight of the feed he is getting. The hay is really heavy, and lush, so he gets two large biscuits of that in the morning.

Then at night he gets another biscuit and a hard feed which includes:



do you stable him at night? if not could you? one of my horses eats a whole bale a night of hay and my other two eat at least 5/6 slices during the night - stabling him at night may be a good way to make sure he gets enough hay/feed without having to share it with others :)

[Fruit Loop]

Could you add a bit of sugar beet/speedibeet to his hard feed to keep his condition. Ours have degie Hi Fi/ a bit of allen page ride and relax and speedibeet as an evening meal in winter until the grass starts coming through gain.

[Mareish]

Ours lost loads of condition and went lethargic when she had a gastric ulcer - just another possibility and hard feed will just make that condition worse, does he colic from time to time ? Thats another symptom

[Jessey]

If I can separate him I will give him a round bale and two large feeds a day
Big feeds won't help, a horses stomach is only small (about the size of a rugby ball) so if too much feed goes in at once it is just forced through into the gut before the stomach can take many of the nutrients from it, giving more smaller feeds would be far more benificial to him. Thats the reason horses graze, so they eat little and often to keep the gut moving and give it enough time to work.

[Teehee]

I'd say maybe the other horses aren't letting him eat or maybe he's not grazing enough... could he have bad teeth?

[Bebe]

Big feeds won't help, a horses stomach is only small (about the size of a rugby ball) so if too much feed goes in at once it is just forced through into the gut before the stomach can take many of the nutrients from it, giving more smaller feeds would be far more benificial to him.

This is true for cereal based starchy feeds but not so for fibre based feeds (sugarbeet, hay, grass, etc). Fibre feeds are digested primarily in the hindgut vs stomach so you can feed large amounts without worrying about them being pushed through the stomach too fast as minimal digestion takes place there anyway. It's for this reason that you can safely give a very large fibre feed and leave it for the horse to pick at overnight or all day, which is what the owners of hard keepers I know tend to do.

[twinkle11]

i think top to horse both look underweight i think you should maybe change feed and think more about feeding lots of fibre with something like speddy beet / blue chip/or top spec feedbalancer 3 or 4 little feeds a day graduly introduce new food

i have been using top spec and alfa-a lite on my mares and the condition on them has imrovemed so much its untrue most of the hard feeds i have named have vit and mineral supplement in the bag aswell

i would also feed hay could you not take him out of the paddock for a couple of hours and lwt him have a haynet.

i would maybe consider having a vet check for any underlining problems

[sheryl]

Hi,
If theres no grazing in your field, I think I'd leave him in. Atleast he can eat all day then;) Maybe just turn him out for a short while each day.

I wouldn't want to be riding him at the moment.

How old is he? What are his teeth like?
I think he has lost an alarming amount of weight in 6 months, and as you have the winter coming, I'd be getting a vet out.

I also agree that horse no.2 is standing funny. Could he have laminitis?

Good luck anyway. Hope you get things sorted out:)

[EnduranceAli]

No advice, sorry - but I love Keg :D Ali xx

[rianne21]

i agree with sheryl, keep him in for a while and feed him up with lots of hay and feed. What sort of Topline type feed do you have where you are?? i don't know much about thin horses, mine have always been fatties lol!!!!

[NoviceNic]

How about tapeing off a small section for him to be able to graze on hay all day....

[rianne21]

How about tapeing off a small section for him to be able to graze on hay all day....

yes that is another good idea

[Waikato Valuta]

Perhaps I have over exaggerated how fat he was, I think he was probably a nice weight. He had a food rib coverage but wasn’t really obese.

Teeth: he had them done in September two weeks after I brought him home. He gets sperate when he eats, But this can't be done more than twice a day. I have been going out at nights an extra 5 days per week to give him more feed.

A gastric Ulcer is a possibility, how does the vet tell if they have one?

I can't bring him in because we don't have any stables. And I am looking for paddock with other barns, but again no luck. It's very frustrating and worrying.

Maddock, the horse in the second photo is basically retired, and I think his weight is fine. He is standing on a steep hill in that shot. I only used it because it was taken today.

Here is another photo taken last week. He had DJD and the vet has told me to not let him get fat because it puts more strain on the joints. But you can’t see the ribs and he has a nice round bottom.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/Waikato_Valuta/Jackson22-03-2007/Mad.jpg

[chickyd444]

are they wormed regularly ?

[Waikato Valuta]

Yes he is wormed regularly. Every 6-12 weeks depending on the seasons and the type of wormer, as advised by my vet.

I regularly rotate wormers and keep an eye on his dropping, but I know you can't see all the worms in the dropping. Even after I worm I don't see any.

I thought I would also add that he dropped most of his weight while with a trainer. He was worked hard six days a week and lost most of it in a matter of just 3 weeks.

I thought it would come back on easily but it's not happening.

Today I went and brought some soy meal, Equilibrium(mineral mix) and a 20L bottle of oil. I'll see if that helps.

[julia gulia]

I really like this supplement for horses who have difficulty holding weight

http://www.smartpakequine.com/ProductClassDescription.aspx?productClassId=816&cmPreserveSource=true&cmPreserveCategory=true

[BeachRiding]

I sympathize. My horse went from a decent weight to worse than yours in about two months. His problem was depression, summer heat, and lack of grass. I worked quickly to feed him to get some fat on him (alfalfa) but the winter has again made his weight go crappy.

Grass is the answer, section him off or tether him. My horse NEVER had weihgt problems when he had full grass access.

[Waikato Valuta]

Thanks WillieLove, I'm glad someone else understands how hard it can be despite your best intentions and effort.

I have decided to put him the sick bay. It's about the size of stable but is just a yard. He will get adlib hay and two hard feeds a day.

Fingers crossed her will improve.

[Natsuchan]

Yarding him with adlib hay will probably help as much as anything. Hay is so expensive now. What state are you in? It looks very, very dry. I live in Victoria and honestly this is the worst I've ever seen it, even South Australia is greener than it is here this year!:eek:

Have you tried speedibeet they've just brought it out over here, and alot of people are saying it's helpful with horses like yours. What about putting some stockgain over his hay. Certainly 3 biscuits is no where near enough not for him and not when the paddocks are basically dust as they are at the moment.

It's so hard right now to keep them in good condition especially if they're poor doers or in work. Good luck hopefully the adlib hay will help things.

[Waikato Valuta]

I'm in Melbourne, Victoria. Where are you Natsuchan? How much hay do you think he should get?

We do have a little pick, as the paddock is 17 acres and as you can see Keg keeps his weight on the pasture.

Never heard of speedibeet I'll have to ask at the feed shop. I have been recommended Equijewel but it's so expensive $50 a bag and I think it would last less than a week.

I'm looking into other agistment, but since I only moved him to the new place three weeks ago I feel bad about leaving, but I think I have to.

[Natsuchan]

I'm out near Dandenong. I'm guessing he's a TB or warmblood? If he was mine depending on what sort of hay it is (lucerne has more protien than grassy hay so it depends) I'd be starting at half a bale a day and going from there. Just keep giving him more until he starts leaving a little bit. It's hard though hay is horribly expensive right now.

I think the speedibeet is around $25 I think, not too sure. You have to soak it first but as it's fibre you can use it to replace some of the hay/chaff. That might help a bit.

http://www.speedibeet.co.uk/

Hmm what else can you try. What about weight lifter? It's cheaper than Equijewel but it works very well apparently it's a complete feed too so you'd just need hay then. It's about $35 for a 25kg bag.

http://www.weight-lifter.com/frontpage.htm

Keg's a clydie they seem to live off air! I'm a bit like that too. :p It's just him I would think poor lad. What little feed there is left hasn't much goodness in it. It's the dought, Victoria's been hit so badly that most paddocks are looking like that. Even the police paddocks that normally have huge waving oceans of feed are looking rather sad and sorry.

Hang in there!

[nessa]

Wow it looks really dry there :eek: I must be very lucky my paddoks still have heaps of feed in them some is still green too! and I can get 8 bales of hay for $50. I think putting him in the yard with ad lib hay would work best. Get good quality hay like oaten or somthing I find when my horse has oaten it makes him put on weight. Also have you ever tryed copra? I feed it to my old tb and it is great stuff :) the barley should work aswell. I would also have a vet look at him, to check for worms, stomache ulcers ect it looks like he has been scratching his bum by the look of his tail. Even though you worm regually he still might have worms. Do the other horses he is in with get wormed the same time as him? good luck :)

[Bebe]

I think the yard sounds like an excellent idea, he should pick up with ad-lib hay and good feeding bar any other problems.

On the worm front, I'd be tempted to have a worm count done to rule out a pre-existing problem that hasn't been got on top of during your short time of ownership. In the UK there are a couple of companies that will do it for a small fee, you just send off a small piece of fresh manure. If you don't have that option your vet should be able to sort it out for you. It's worth it for the peace of mind. I might also be inclined to have him bloodtested for tapeworms (they won't show on a faecal count) if he doesn't pick up with a few weeks of extra food.

Speedibeet is very good for putting on condition if you can get hold of it. You have to soak it for 10 mins (5 mins if you use hot water) but it's a very good source of energy, fibre and water.

Good luck with him
Amanda

[parsharainbow]

Maddock, the horse in the second photo is basically retired,

He had DJD

that would explain both the stance and lack of topline then :) I only mentioned it because my horse looks very similar and his is due to being retired due to a pelvic problem, not only does he have the swayback like yours due to muscle wastage, he's got a very very similar stance :)

[puzzles]

Sorry but I don't think this one has kept his weight particularly well either :o although he's not as poor as the first. I also wouldn't be happy with the way he's standing, he's very 'under' himself with his back legs and looks very poor over his back, is he in work? am just wondering whether its lack of top-line or lack of condition in general? I am concerned about the way he's standing though - Sorry :o

Just to add one of my horses stands like that too and he's got a tilted pelvis and a weak back - he's now retired, lost muscle and has that 'sway' back like yours - which is why I asked if he/she was in work?

could this be because of his dipped back and - though well covered with fat - lack of topline?

i also think you should have him checked, as even if you worm him regularly he could still be carrying a worm burden.
mone of my 'babies', Harry, was an exracehorse who became exaciated in the summer whilst maintained weight beautifuuly the last winter.

i strongly recommend that you add a digestive, or has endured a lot of stress lately, his digestion could be weak - meaning that you can feed all you like and he won't improve because he can't absorb all the nutrients and will probably only worsen.
some of the best examples include Dengie XP Triple Action and Biotal Equine Gold: using prebiotics, probiotics and live yeast to enhance the good bacteria population in the gut and help to decrease the numbers of bad bacteria.
ask any nutritionist (which i think yu ureally should do) and they will most likely advise this point too.

make sure he is receiving a balanced diet, with all the vitamins and minerals he needs (if you are not feeding at least the recommended amount of hard feed as suggested on the bag, then you will need to add a supplement or balancer, such as Blue Chip original (containing digetsive enhancers).

i will be surprised if you do not see any imptrovement with a digestive enhacer within a few weeks, but i think teh next course of action you need to take is to have your vet look at him - there could well be a digestive or tooth problem, especially if he windsucks/cribbites, etc.

good luck!

[Waikato Valuta]

Maddock was born with a sway back, he has always had it. He has also been out of work for almost 2 years. Although I do ride him occasionally. His weight is fine. He gets stock gain in his chaff and normally does not stand under himself like that. It was just the moment the photo was taken. What you may think is ribs is actually fat. It creases up and looks like ribs but you can’t even feel them without pressing hard.

I’m not just worming him with any old thing. I follow the plan set out by my vet. He is wormed properly. Jackson does not wind suck or crib bite. He had his teeth done in September and the dentist said they were in very good condition and would not need to be done for at least 9-12 months. It has only been 6.

He does get the recommended daily intake of all the feeds he is getting. He gets Breeda which is a complete feed, I guess he just needs more than a normal horse.

Perhaps he has a stomach ulcer, I guess if I don’t see an improvement within a few weeks I will need to get this looked at.

I have divided the one large feed into two smaller feeds, and added some soy and mineral mix. I will look into speedibeet.

This is a sickly thin horse:
http://www.equineadvocates.com/gfx/37.jpg

[flintybaby]

Oh God thats awful! :(

[BeachRiding]

This is a sickly thin horse:
http://www.equineadvocates.com/gfx/37.jpg


Yikes!! that horse makes my skinny horse look obese.:(

[Natsuchan]

I wouldn't feel too guilty, just try to rectify the problem. A lot of people are having issues with maintaining weight on their horses at the moment. The lack of green feed, the problems with obtaining decent quality hay, and this strange hot/cold/humid weather we've been having doesn't help. Weather like we've had this week. Hot, muggy weather with the temperatures during the day sitting a few degrees under 40C and over night temperatures sitting in the mid high 20s then the sudden drop to 19C during the day that sort of thing really does knock them about.

I'm sure he'll pick up. Just give him as much hay as he can eat. Rug him when it's cold so he's not wasting precious calories, and keep an eye on him. And maybe if you can try the weight lifter when the breeda runs out.

One other thing is have you tried checking his manure for sand? Take a pile put it in a bucket of water over night and drain it off and see how much sand and grit is in the bottom of the bucket. Given what the paddock is like there's bound to be some but if it's more than a thin film at the bottom of the bucket it might be worth getting him drenched for sand next time the vet comes out.

It's really going to be hard this winter. I don't think people understand how hard. I'm thanking the fates that be that be that I'm horseless at the moment which is something I'd never normally do. Waikato Valuta if you can possibly afford to buy some hay in bulk and store it away, do so and do it now. If this season is as bad as the last, if we don't get the autumn flush things are going to be very bad indeed. If you can possibly get some hay. Any hay is better than none and shove it on some pallets under a tarp, or better yet under a carport, do it, hay is like gold. If things continue like this we'll be trucking it in from interstate or overseas. So if you possibly can stash some aside do try.

Good luck and let us know how he goes, he's a lovely boy.

[LokiSofi]

aww bless him yes he is very underweight. I would definately put him in the yard and give him as much ad lib hay as he can eat, If he is in the yard you may also want to feed him 3 times a day.
Also I don't know whether he is in work at present but if he is then i wouldn't ride him, let him build his weight back up first.
Good luck and let us know how he does

[anna15]

i think that this is deffinately worth contacting a vet about and getting their advice.

[JOJOBA]

Id agree with what everyone else has said - my horse dropped weight massively when I took him out of work, his muscles just dissolved leaving him looking like a leggy greyhound! Instead of the 'middle to heavyweight hunter' I bought ;). He has an enormous frame so you can see his ribs clearly and the physio loves him because as he moves you can see each muscle / joint working :p.
I give him two average sized feeds of Alfa A Oil and Speedibeet, with ad lib haylage and daytime turnout. He's just starting to pick up again and get a better covering, especially now that he's back in slightly higher work again.
With yours I think a worm count and teeth are the first ports of call :).
Also I agree with Dakota's Mum about not riding him - do groundwork or freeschooling instead until he has better topline muscles and will find it easier (thats where I am with my horse now).

xxx

[martini55]

I think that yes he is underweight. As others have said up the fibre intake and if you can feed him ad-lib hay then great. If you don't see much improvement after that then I would get the vet out to rule out any metabolic problems.

Edited to say: Speedi-beet is fab stuff imo. A small mugful helped put the weight back on my good-doer going into winter. It would be worth a try and is certainly inexpensive over here :)

[Nayds]

HEY! I would just like to say. I too am from Australia and although you are all being very helpful to Waikato Valuta some are being a little harsh. I know how hard it is to find Agistment little alone pasture. Luckily I have my my two thoroughbreds at my partner's property therefore no agistment payment but still no pasture. This drought is very severe within the past 4 months we have had all but 11mm of rain. I too can empathise with the phenominal increase in feed prices. For those whom have not experienced such a drought please realise that during one as severe as this not all horses should be expected to look like fat english cobs and that a thin covering of fat over a horses ribs (ribs being just visible) is considered good condition for some. Altough I do agree that Jackson is a little thin I do not feel that he is as horribly thin as some of you have made out. In fact one of my horses looks almost just the same perhaps a little better off. We are going through a really really hard time of the year I personally would look to put more weight on Jackson but if I couldn't as it is extremely hard due to drought I would just look to be maintaining what condition he has on him and see how you go from there. Please remember any weight quickly gained is quickly lost. Therefore by feeding him to just maintain what weight he has it will be easier for you to increase feed and slowly build him back up to a fatty. Lol or just maintain him (if that is all you can do) till the Autumn break which had better bloody come pretty soon!!!!!!!!!

I also cannot give my horses adlib. hay so i give them as much as i can whenever I can. They are also fed hard feed once a day. In which they are getting 2 scoops Lucerne chaff and 2 scoops Completo and starting tomorrow eventually up to 3 cups a day of either unprocessed Corn or Soya Oil which I am going to buy tomorrow. I would not recommend Sunflower, Canola or Vegetable Oil as a primary weight gain feed as they are a more inclined high energy oil. The 2 scoops of lucerne and Completo I have found has put weight on my competition horse but has only maintained the weight of my horse in training. Therefore with either unprocessed Corn or Soya Oil I will increase the fat content of their feeds and hopefully increase the fat content on theirs asses.

I would just like to say that yes I know alot of people disapprove of feeding Completo stating that it is the dregs left over from other processed feeds. But I have found this feed to be very consistent in quality and quantity of it's ingredients. It is also one of the cheaper feeds on the market at the moment although it too has increase in price a whole $5. Which considering the insane increase in price on hay and chaff is very drought friendly. Also if it works for your horse and is not detrimental to their health why not use it???

Still I cannot wait till our green pastures return and so come the return of our fat ponies!

I hope this post has not tread on your toes but has only helped you understand our situation over here in Australia. As for Waikato Valuta I hope you can sympathise with me and I hope I have been some sort of help to you.

Cheers and Peace Out Rabbits
Nayds

[shandy84]

Nayds I don't think anyone is being nasty, I think perhaps a lot of their worry is that you are heading into a worse time of year, so could perhaps do with a small amount of extra weight in order to keep happily over the winter.

Personally I don't think he looks terrible but I would increase his chaff and hay intake where possible as they will help him bulk up a little more for you.

Unfortunatly horses are adapted to eat large quantities of fibre throughout the day and it is always harder to maintain their weight if they do not have access to a large amount throughout the day.

When my native ponies are in they get six slices of hay throughout the day and evening to keep them full (aprox half a bale) and that keeps them ticking over well. One of mine has just gone into hard work so to maintain her weight more she is also having a scoop of speedie beet.

I know that it is hard feeding horses when there are price hikes and also when you have no grazing. I would just see whether keeping him in the yard helps at all, if not maybe ask your vet for advice.

BTW how much water does he have access to? Is there any chance he could be slightly dehydrating and overheating causing him to lose weight?

[Bebe]

I hope this post has not tread on your toes but has only helped you understand our situation over here in Australia.

I have a friend in Australia that I email on a daily basis. I know how big her feed bill is and how difficult she finds it to get enough hay to feed her horses. None of them are fed ad-lib hay and grass is very sparse due to the drought conditions that have prevailed for the last 7yrs or so. Even so, none of her horses are what I'd consider to be seriously thin, I'd be happier if my horse looked as slim as hers do (there's a lot to be said for poor grazing when you have a good doer).

No-one is intending to be harsh but the horse posted for opinions is very underweight by anyone's standards.

[Nayds]

I am please to hear that you can relate or understand the situation over here in Aussie. I didn't think that your concern would be for our horse' welfare in the future. The thought that our current situation could get worse had not crossed my mind as I have had my thoughts set on the fact that the Autumn Break will come. Every farmers or livestock owner you talk to in my area will say "the Autumn Break will come" ...But what if it doesn't?

CRAP!!!! this absolutely sucks....I am sick of drought......feed prices.......bad doers.......next horse I get is NOT going to be an accident prone, high metabolised, needs to eat for 10 horses to keep weight on Thoroughbred!!!!!!!! AAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH

I am having a break down.
Sorry guys.

This situation is so stressful.

OK so I just went to buy Corn Oil for my horses and it was a ridiculous $70 for 20litres. So I ended up buying FULL FAT SOYABEAN MEAL!

But I have no idea how to feed it???
Help please...

[Natsuchan]

Nayds, I've not feed the soyabean meal but most of those sort of things eg: copra and pollard really need to be given a good soaking first. They absorb a lot of water. Be careful with it you don't want colic. Copra can absorb up to 5 times it's weight in water, so with the soya meal try putting half a cup in a bucket and adding water a cup at a time to see how much it takes in. Once you know how much water it absorbs you can throw it in the bucket, water it down then mix in the rest of the feed. That's how I'd handle it anyway.

The other thing is that it can go rancid so store it some where cool if you can preferably in a garbage bin.

As for if the Autumn rains don't come...well we'll be in alot of trouble. If it doesn't rain soon Melbourne will run out of water. This is the city itself I'm talking about. People are saying we'll run out of hay before the end of winter down here too which is why I said Waikato Valuta should try and get some stored away. It's really rather frightening. I fully understand why so many farmers are taking their own lives, they've got nothing left. No water, no feed, no money and most of them are selling their stock if they can poor sods alot can't even give them away.

Pray for rain and plan for the worst that's all we can do.

[parsharainbow]

next horse I get is NOT going to be an accident prone, high metabolised, needs to eat for 10 horses to keep weight on Thoroughbred!!!!!!!! AAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH



hehe, I've always had TBs and I've got two now, everytime I say I'm not having another Throroughbred and everytime I end up with one :D This winter has been awful - we had such a dry summer most of the farmers only managed one cut off their fields so we've got a huge shortage of hay where I am, its now gone up to £4.50 a small bale and my grey TB eats a bale a night :eek: the other two have at least 1/2 - 3/4 bale each, its costing me a fortune - roll on spring ;)

[Denbenj]

hehe, I've always had TBs and I've got two now, everytime I say I'm not having another Throroughbred and everytime I end up with one :D This winter has been awful - we had such a dry summer most of the farmers only managed one cut off their fields so we've got a huge shortage of hay where I am, its now gone up to £4.50 a small bale and my grey TB eats a bale a night :eek: the other two have at least 1/2 - 3/4 bale each, its costing me a fortune - roll on spring ;)

Ouch !! Blimey £4.50 a bale!! and about 2 bales a day!!

I'm quite lucky I can buy hay of the farmer/YO £2.50 long bale.. However I know he is having trouble sourcing Straw for his animals..to the point he cannot source any!!

[parsharainbow]

HEY! I would just like to say. I too am from Australia and although you are all being very helpful to Waikato Valuta some are being a little harsh.

I'd just like to point out I don't think anyone has been harsh at all, but she asked a question and people have just given their honest point of view, if she didn't want honest opinions then maybe she shouldn't have asked, the title of the thread is actually "is this horse too thin?" she's asking a question about her horse's condition, if she'd asked for advice on keeping weight on her horse she would have had totally different advice, it may be worth thinking about how the question is asked if she feels on edge about some of the answers she's had :)

[parsharainbow]

Ouch !! Blimey £4.50 a bale!! and about 2 bales a day!!




I know tell me about it :( £9 a day is a bit excessive in my books too :eek:

I can get my hands on straw if thats any good? :)

[Nayds]

[QUOTE=parsharainbow;1212779]hehe, I've always had TBs and I've got two now, everytime I say I'm not having another Throroughbred and everytime I end up with one :D QUOTE]

This is so true I was offered another one yesterday and I nearly took it and today I have been offered a free horse which I have taken and yes it is a thoroughbred too lol :o

I was asking a friend about Soyabean Meal and she said that you don't need to water it down but apparently they can only handle 2 cups a day of the stuff :confused:

Cheers and Peace Out Rabbits

[parsharainbow]

This is so true I was offered another one yesterday and I nearly took it and today I have been offered a free horse which I have taken and yes it is a thoroughbred too lol :o



aint it always the way :D :D :D

[Natsuchan]

I've been told you can feed it dry too. Been told that about Copra as well, but having seen how much water it can suck up I wouldn't dare feed it without wetting it down. Different people have different ideas I guess.

As for volume well it is very high in fat and protien so even two cups will make quite a bit of difference.

[Nayds]

As for volume well it is very high in fat and protien so even two cups will make quite a bit of difference.

Great point cause like thats why I bought it. I will post a couple of pics of my horses in current drought condition. I want them to be fatties :D

Maybe I should put some of the stuff in a cup and mix it with water to see what happens?

Lol yer and since I have been getting cheap horses to re-educate people seem to be wanting to give me horses or have me ride them for them???? :o

[Nayds]

So i mix it with some water and it absorbed it fairly quickly but it didn't really increase in size??? What am I supposed to do?

[Natsuchan]

It's not like sugar beet pellets it doesn't swell up vastly but it will absorb a fair bit of water. How much did you have dry and how much water did you add?

If it's only a little bit just wet it down so it's sort of damp and crumbly, sort of like weetbix goes if you put the crumbs from the bottom of the bag in and add a little bit of milk just enough to make it damp. If that makes sense? Hard to explain. If it's only a small amount to start with it should be okay like that, if you're concerned add a bit more water. Being a bit too wet won't hurt, it just slows the greedy ones down. Hopefully yours aren't like my little hoovermatic mare was...she'd scoff it down so fast she'd give herself choke, so everything got given a good wetting down.

:D I vaguely remember something from one of those old 60'ish pony books about that. Something about once you have one horse others just seem to happen! In my case it was either standardbreds or ponies who found children terribly boring.:rolleyes:

[herondell]

if you can its best to give him 4 smaller feeds a day than 2 large feeds and plenty of hay when i first got my horse he was a bit poor but i gave him a conditioning mix aswell as the hi fi and all the hay he can eat.

[Nayds]

Yer I have broken down their feed from hay in the morning and hard feed at night to half their hard feed in the morning and hay at lunch then the rest of their hard feed at night :D

[Waikato Valuta]

I had the vet out Saturday, because you guys freaked me out. I even printed out some of this thread for him to look at. And he laughed at me :o .

He thinks Jackson is a little light on but defiantly not to the point of being unhealthy or ill. He has suggested I don't let him get any skinnier and bulk up his fiber intake, but I've already started that. He took a poo sample and bloods at my insistence and will get back to me about that. Granted he wasn't as dirty when the vet came out so had a much shinier coat.

hmmmm...... I guess he's gotten used to looking at worse drought affected horses. There certainly are some very skinny ones around at the moment. Or perhaps he's just a bad vet???

[sheryl]

Good for you.
Better to be safe than sorry. Atleast you've had your mind put to rest;)

Hope the drought ends soon for you:)

[Bay Mare]

I have decided to put him the sick bay. It's about the size of stable but is just a yard. He will get adlib hay and two hard feeds a day.

Fingers crossed her will improve.


I think that ad-lib hay is a good idea but personally I wouldn't go for hard feeds. I agree with Bebe that a forage based diet is the way to go. Hard feeds are for energy not weight gain. Saff lost weight on hard feeds!

As Bebe said you can give them a pretty large sized forage feed that they'll pick at throughout the day. They don't tend to plough through it in the way that they do cereals/hard feed. Unmollassed sugar beet can help as can linseed for bad doers. Maybe adding a splash of something like vegetable oil can also be helpful for weight gain.

Oh I'd second the worm count and blood test too! It's always worth ruling these things out.

All the best x

[Jessey]

I had the vet out Saturday, because you guys freaked me out. I even printed out some of this thread for him to look at. And he laughed at me :o .

He thinks Jackson is a little light on but defiantly not to the point of being unhealthy or ill. He has suggested I don't let him get any skinnier and bulk up his fiber intake, but I've already started that. He took a poo sample and bloods at my insistence and will get back to me about that. Granted he wasn't as dirty when the vet came out so had a much shinier coat.

hmmmm...... I guess he's gotten used to looking at worse drought affected horses. There certainly are some very skinny ones around at the moment. Or perhaps he's just a bad vet???

Aw didn't mean to freak you out :o At least you can be 100% that nothing else is going on though and it is just the drought causing him to loose the weight :p

You are right, if you are not used to seeing horses/stock who are going through a drought it does look pretty severe, bet you (as in those in drought countries) must think all our horses look hugely overweight when we think they are just normal :o

How is he doing in the pen now? is he eating alot more? drinking more? putting any weight on? I hope he is happy in there anyway :p

[Waikato Valuta]

He was only in the yard for 3 days and then another horse went through a fence and needed it so he got it's paddock. But I moved him to a new place on Sunday. So now he has 4 acres all to himself. And a small amount of pick. His head has not come up all day.

I don't see much of a change with weight, we will have to wait and see. I think a week is probably not long enough to notice a difference.

[Jessey]

Wow, lots been going on then, glad he is settled into a nice pasture now with grazing to pick at :D sounds like he is very happy with the situation :D yeah a week probably isn't long enough at all.

[ajhainey]

Waikato - I think there might be a climate instinct difference kicking in here. We in the uk would think that summer is 'top weight' heading down into winter so are concerned he looks thin now as here in the Uk this would be 'as good as it gets', but looking at your photos I'm thinking with an Australian climate summer might actually be your 'thin' time (drought/dry), with autumn then being better for the grazing and winter relatively mild and spring grass and lower temps making the fattest season? Am I anywhere close? How does it work for you guys?

Glad to hear the vet thinks hes ok regardless!

aj xx

[Waikato Valuta]

Yes, this is the worst time of the year for us. There is normally plenty of grass around in Autumn, winter and spring, so it’s not much of a problem. And I think our winters are probably mild. We rarely go below 0 and never get snow.

I’m thinking all the horses will pick up in winter rather than lose it.

[Joyscarer]

Waikato - I think there might be a climate instinct difference kicking in here. We in the uk would think that summer is 'top weight' heading down into winter so are concerned he looks thin now as here in the Uk this would be 'as good as it gets', but looking at your photos I'm thinking with an Australian climate summer might actually be your 'thin' time (drought/dry), with autumn then being better for the grazing and winter relatively mild and spring grass and lower temps making the fattest season? Am I anywhere close? How does it work for you guys?

Glad to hear the vet thinks hes ok regardless!

aj xx

I think your right, plus the fact that in the UK the temptation is to apply UK norms to weights and standards when it isn't applicable in this case :)

[Dawn_connie]

Corn oil.

Sorry if Im repeating anyone, but its used for rescued horses to get their weight and condition up.

Its great for the coat too, Connie gets it and the difference in her coat alone (shes doesnt need fattening up!) is amazing!

Her stable mate has hock problems and has started corn oil under advice from friends.

Its great stuff.

Dawn

He looks thin, to my standards, but maybe where you are thats the norm? What does his vet say?

[Nayds]

I think your right, plus the fact that in the UK the temptation is to apply UK norms to weights and standards when it isn't applicable in this case :)

THATS WHAT I WEAS TRYING TO GET ACROSS TO EVERYONE!!!!!:p

[Cupcake]

Waikato - I think there might be a climate instinct difference kicking in here. We in the uk would think that summer is 'top weight' heading down into winter so are concerned he looks thin now as here in the Uk this would be 'as good as it gets', but looking at your photos I'm thinking with an Australian climate summer might actually be your 'thin' time



Spot on! I'm an Aussie as well, and we're not coping very well right now. For the first time ever Skye has gotten down to a skinny weight, that has never EVER happened before. Her 26 year old friend is such a sad sight to look at.

Having 2 seniors it's very scary when they drop 50kg in a week, without warning and it just won't rain! We're still paying $22 a bale, but my girls are fed on chaff mostly now.

I know exactly what your talking about Waikato Valuta, your horse is skinny, but most horses are. My friends horse is fed 4 times a day and has hay constantly, but he's stick thin and had a visit from the RSPCA a week ago.

Just try and feed him as much as possible, well as much as you can afford anyway... I've been waiting for this drought to end for 5 years, don't think it's going too.

[entreat]

Does he always stand like that? he definately looks uncomfortable

I know that paddock, he's actually standing on a slight hill. He doesnt usually stand like that, I'm sure. he may have just turned around from standing over the fence.


Hey WV, as you know, there's nothing but dust out here & to keep Mouse fat I feed him 3-4 biscuits at night, 1-2 in the morning, plus a feed consisting of: 2-3 chaff scoops (about 1L volume per scoop), 2 lucerne, 1.5 cups sunflower oil, 1/2 scoop cool max pellets & some equilibrium, +/- 1-2 cups sunflower seeds. Remember that chaff is just cut hay, so you're better off not bulking his dinner out with that, but adding something alittle different (more nutritionally rich). That's why I give lucerne, but some horses fizz on it. (just reread what you feed him... he's not getting oaten chaff! D'oh!) But with that volume of food, I think 2 cups of oil would be good. You can use what ever oil you like, but I heard that sunflower is the most nutritious... something about more kj per volume or good fatty acid content. In bulk, the most cost effective is a sunflower oil blend of 80% sunflower, 20% veg called SunOil. get it from Cash & carry, or other bulk goods store.

I do want to get some speedy beet stuff for Mouse as I think he gets too much bulk in chaff. He has a huge grass belly! And Star is not worth mentioning in the context of fatness as she has too much on 2 biscuits of hay a day!!

[Waikato Valuta]

*UPDATE*

He is picking up, now I have him in a private paddock, all his sores are healing as well. He had a few large weeping bite makes from the horrible horses he was out with.

He has been getting the same amount of feed as I think it's enough. But I did get him a round bale.

Here are some photos taken today, he's had a bath and is looking petty good.

Maddock is staying fat on just a couple of bisc of hay a day, but Jackson is different.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/Waikato_Valuta/Jackson08-04-2007/b.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/Waikato_Valuta/Jackson08-04-2007/e.jpg

And this was just an interesting shot. I've never seen a white kangaroo before.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/Waikato_Valuta/Jackson08-04-2007/8.jpg

[flintybaby]

Thats a massive improvement. Well done you.

Do you normally see stray kangaroos where you are?? I saw a deer out riding the other day and thought that was amazing but a kangaroo :eek:

[coss]

that is an improvement, although the ribs are still visible they definately have more covering and there is more of a gleam in the coat :)

[Waikato Valuta]

Thanks.

Yeah there are LOADS of Kangaroos in the paddocks. You would be hard pressed not to come across some.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/Waikato_Valuta/Jackson08-04-2007/9.jpg

[coss]

i have heard of albino type kangaroos, they're rare though as far as i know (not that i'm ever in that part of the world :D)

[flintybaby]

We dont even see rabbits as many as that! Wow!!! What other wildlife do you see?

[entreat]

you get more roos there than we get out here. Probably all the grass. All our roos are red (I think because of all the red dirt they eat!!)

He looks much better with a wash & his own feed. I don't think he looked awful before, but quite under-done.

More photos please!! LOL!

[Waikato Valuta]

I did post some photos of us jumping here:

http://www.newrider.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108093

[Jessey]

Oo he does look better, a little more weight and much more shine - that bath did the world of good for his appearance :D and the new pasture looks much better, much more to munch on :D
Shame you can't keep the Roo's off, I bet you would have far more grass if they weren't helping to eat it all!

[Joyscarer]

It's no wonder grass is in such short supply with all those roos :eek:

Cute though :D

[barlz_max_hero]

aww he looks very poor.
i wouldnt ride him for a while if i was u.
hope he puts on some weight soon x

[Waikato Valuta]

Well it has been over a month now and he has picked up, but not as much as I would like. This is with 24/7 hay and large hard feeds inc. mineral mixes every morning and night.

Perhaps I just need to be more patent. He has certainly become more frisky under saddle.

What do you think?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/Waikato_Valuta/jackson_April_07/1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/Waikato_Valuta/jackson_April_07/2.jpg

[showjumper-zoe]

How old is it? Is it a vetran?

Have you had his teeth cheacked?

Maybe build up feed and some hayledge.

[Waikato Valuta]

He is 6yo, so not a veteran. He has his teeth done fairly recently.

I also mentioned in my above post that he has hay 24/7. I'll add that it is nice Clover Hay.

He needed his saddle re-fitted because he has increased the width around his belly.

But can you notice much of a difference in the before and after photos?

Here is another recent photo:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/Waikato_Valuta/jackson_April_07/3.jpg

[touchstone]

There looks to be a good improvement in his condition, well done!

One thing I would just comment on though is that he looks to have very well developed chest muscles, which I believe can be a sign of a badly fitting saddle and possible back problems, he looks lighter behind as if he isn't using himself properly, and pain or discomfort can be a great fat burner!

Might be worth having a phyusio check him over and I see you are getting his saddle checked ;)

Your grazing looks just what my fatties could do with!:rolleyes:

[sheryl]

He looks a lot better in the last pic. You're definately heading in the right direction.

Is he being wormed regularly too?

[entreat]

Be patient WV - he's a big boy, so he's going to take longer to show any improvements. His energy requirements are also much higher than smaller horses.

I say just keep it up. Good food & rugging will help him keep it all together.

[Waikato Valuta]

Yes he is wormed. He is massaged fairly often, and he had one two weeks ago. She said he was fine. He also had his saddle fitted two weeks ago. I thought it could do with a change because he's put on weight.

Touchstone. What makes you think he has well developed chest muscles? What aspect of the photo?

[Ptaty70]

I think he looks great now! I put the before and after pictures on two screens and there's a marked difference, especially from behind, plus he's got more filling in the tum area! Am pleased he moved onto his own pasture, he is obviously doing well on it!

As pointed out, he's a big horse, so the improvement will be slow, but you are on the right track, especially at a time of year with very little grass for you.

Had any rain yet?

[entreat]

Yep - the lucky Victorians have had a little bit of rain. Hopefully some grass will come in the next couple of months, but being winter, it won't grow well.

[coss]

there is a significant improvement, go from page 1 to 5 and you really see it, keep it up :)