serpentines.. i'm confused !!!!

[horseygirl123]

I've been having lessons for a while altho still a novice/intermediate at an excellent RS run by an american dressage RI, up until today I was merely just 'learning to ride' but today she asked me to do serpentines in trot, which was amazingly difficult :o
In my previous RS I was taught to ask for a bend using inside leg on girth, outside leg behind girth, soften outside hand and give and take with inside hand. Today tho I was told to keep contact with outside hand, give and take with inside hand and 'use outside leg on the girth' and 'leave off with inside leg' I am now TOTALLY confused. I tried to take off my inside leg and put outside leg on the girth like she said but it just didnt feel right. Am I missing something here, cos right now I feel sooo confused :rolleyes:
Any help pls would be much be appreciated, but pls dont get too technical as I am only just starting !!!!

[Herbie's mummy]

serpentines:
you are often asked to do a 3 loop serpentine; well it is most common sometimes you are asked for more loops.

Ignore me: i did not read the Question right sorry!!

[horseygirl123]

serpentines:
you are often asked to do a 3 loop serpentine; well it is most common sometimes you are asked for more loops.

Ignore me: i did not read the Question right sorry!!

Yeh I grasped that part :D
It was the bending I couldnt do. Was the same when doing circles, i am used to using inside leg on girth outside leg behind girth but again she kept telling me to keep outside leg on girth and inside leg 'off' :confused:

[Skyhuntress]

I followed you up until you said "take off the inside leg"

Ideally when you're riding a serpentine bend, or a circle, you want a connection with the outside rein, a spongy connection with the inside rein, the outside leg on to make sure the haunches don't fall out, but you also want the inside leg to encourage a change of bend (in the case of a serpentine)

You simply cannot get a change in bend if your inner leg is off

[essexgirl]

Hi Horseygirl123

I went to the same RI yesterday. We were also doing serpentines. I think what RI meant was not to kick/nudge with your inside leg, but to keep it in contact with the horses side. You need to keep your inside leg on so as the horse can ben around it (as StormArion says) - but it should be still - anyway, this is was my understanding. Does this make sense?

[Stella2]

I followed you up until you said "take off the inside leg"

Ideally when you're riding a serpentine bend, or a circle, you want a connection with the outside rein, a spongy connection with the inside rein, the outside leg on to make sure the haunches don't fall out, but you also want the inside leg to encourage a change of bend (in the case of a serpentine)

You simply cannot get a change in bend if your inner leg is off Yes, but I wonder if what was meant that the inside leg shouldn't necassary be 'on' as in giving an aid, but rather just 'there' as in for the horse to bend around.

I think maybe your currant instructor is just trying to increase your skill level. I can remember this 'step up'. I hadn't realised I'd been riding at 'nursary level' before, but it turned out I was.

If you respond anything like I did, I'd suggest you just do as your currant instructor tells you and after a while it will begin to fall into place in your head ;)

[Skyhuntress]

Yes, but I wonder if what was meant that the inside leg shouldn't necassary be 'on' as in giving an aid, but rather just 'there' as in for the horse to bend around.


That's quite possible, most definately, although unless you had a very well schooled horse, more then likely it would have to still be applying pressure to get the horse to actively continue using his hind end, as most horses really tend to slow down and fall out in serpentines

[eml]

It does sound 'different' but hard to tell without seeing what was happening.

Is it possible that you were using too much inside leg and not enough outside hand and so creating a 'banana' shape and she was just trying to get you to rebalance your aids to more hand less leg?

[horseygirl123]

I was doing what she was telling me to do, I was keeping the inside leg there for her to bend around but instead of her actually bending around my leg it felt like she was pushing against it so yeh went banana shape so as to cut off the bend and catch up with the other horse:confused:
Also when I try to leg yield her (she's a chunky cob) if she doesnt want to move over she will push against my leg to stay straight rather than move over, i find this sooo frustrating as I know she knows and understands what I want but she thinks 'nahhh dont want to do that, thanks !! )
Any tips on getting a strong, muscled up, stubborn horse to listen to my leg aids instead of fighting against them would be MUCH appreciated :)

p.s the RI has given me this horse because she is 'harder work' .......... thanks alot mrs RI !!!

[k8_doran]

You turn as if you would schooling in any corner, so if I am going to the right, I would keep both rein contact, but apply a bit more on the right hand rein. Keep the left leg on the girth and right leg go back slightly and apply a bit of pressure with both legs By doing this, horse will curve to the right

[horseygirl123]

Hi Horseygirl123

I went to the same RI yesterday. We were also doing serpentines. I think what RI meant was not to kick/nudge with your inside leg, but to keep it in contact with the horses side. You need to keep your inside leg on so as the horse can ben around it (as StormArion says) - but it should be still - anyway, this is was my understanding. Does this make sense?

Oh you did :eek: the one at withersfield??

[horseygirl123]

You turn as if you would schooling in any corner, so if I am going to the right, I would keep both rein contact, but apply a bit more on the right hand rein. Keep the left leg on the girth and right leg go back slightly and apply a bit of pressure with both legs By doing this, horse will curve to the right

Ahhh finially someone who does it the way I was always taught to do it :)
This is exactly how I have always ridden up until going to this new RI. It makes sense to me to keep outside leg on girth, inside leg behind the girth, BUT RI tells me to do it the opposite way, inside leg on girth, outside leg behind girth ............ HELP I'm going crazy here :confused:

[essexgirl]

Yes the one at Withersfield - after you recommended it :)

[ongo247]

it sounds like your riding instructor is trying to teach you more technically correct classical riding, I used to instruct and the inside leg on the girth outside leg etc was taught to enable people to basically control their ponies and get them to go in the direction required, once that was mastered and you wanted to start improving the balance, bend and way the horse moved, things get a little more technical.

starting with your inside hand, yes the inside hand does to a certain degree create the flexion and direction, it is important to give the inside hand as well, i'e, when the shoulder moves forward, this avoids trapping the inside shoulder and having your horse fall in around the corner, shortening it's stride and possibly 'hopping' around the corner, i,e, the expression bridle lame. if you just pull the inside rein, you will find that your horse probably falls in and swings his quarters out.
the outside rein should keep a supportive contact, this helps maintain straigtness, which is actually very important if that makes sense, it helps your horse to balance itself, controls the speed, keeps the horse on 2 tracks, helps stop the horse creeping out through the shoulder, you have to give it enough to allow the bend, but keep it there to support and ask.

if you imagine the horse has 3 buttons behind the girth, about 2 inches behind the girth is A, 3-4 inches back is B, etc. use your inside leg on button A. this doesn't 'make' the bend, it creates the implusion for your horse to work forward into your correct contact, perhaps that is why you have been told to lay off a bit here, maybe your horse is already forward enough. your inside leg supports and asks the body to stay up and straight rather than falling in.
your outside leg control the quarters from swinging out to far, again helping to maintain the straightness, remember your horse should still be on 2 tracks.
all these things together help the horse to develop self carriage & bend.

hope this helps to clarify what your RI means.

F