What is the difference between feeding Chaff and Alfalfa??

[Hayz]

Is there any major differences? Except price!

Thanks Hayz xx

[puzzles]

alfalfa tends to have a higher nutritional value - chaff iis just hay/grases whilst alfalfa is a particular forage plant.

it is high in calcium and protein, as well as fibre and a fair bit of slow-release energy, making it ideal for just about anyone and anything; from aeisure and competition horses to youngsters and veterans. it is high in nutrients, vitamins and minerals yet low in sugar and is good for gaining and maintaining condition.
plus it is highly digestible and platable, being worth every penny.

chaff tends to contain more molasses to make it more platable, and it can be lower in energy yet higher in sugar.
basicsally, chaff tends to be cheaper becasue it is of lower nutritional value though both alfalfa and chaff are very useful feed additives.

[capalldubh]

Only thing I'd add to what Puzzles said is that it seems to be very difficult to get a chaff that doesn't contain either alfalfa, molasses or both :rolleyes:

I'd like to feed a chaff that doesn't have added sugar but doesn't have alfalfa because I suspect Jackson is sensitive to alfalfa and I don't believe in feeding horses sugar... Can I get a chaff that meets this? Nope.

There are quite a few "diet" chaffs around that contain no or low molasses - but they all have alfalfa. There are also a few chaffs that don't have alfalfa - but they're all full of molasses.

If it's protein you're after, pretty much the same proteins and essential amino acids are in alfalfa and sugarbeet - so I choose speedibeet over the alfalfa, but with added chaff for bulk.

[Hayz]

Ok, My mare needs weight and condition on and is fed alfalfa original, nuts and speedi-beet. She also gets a bucket of alfalfa to nibble overnight. But we are getting through alot of alfalfa and for half price i can get chaff. So was wondering if it would be a big deal to change. She is also on as much dry haylage as she can eat :)

[Rarah]

I wouldn't personally switch to chaff if you're wanting to gain weight.

My mare is difficult to keep weight on (although doing fine at the moment fingers crossed).

Have you thought about adding oil to her feed too? I use corn oil - about 70p a litre which would easily last you a week.

[Jessey]

Stricktly speaking chaff is short chopped forage, so Alfa A ect is a chaff :p but I guess you are referring to the likes of Mollichaff? basically that is just short chopped oat straw drenched in molasses - very little nutritional benifit to the horse, it does however slow down horses who bolt their feed and bulk it out but the molasses can fizz up some too.
Alfalfa on the other hand is a highly nutritious feed on its own, as puzzles said, so can be used to replace or increase the energy of the bucket ration whilst keeping the ration high fibre and low starch and sugar.

Capalldubh - I looked for ages for a mollasses and alfa free chaff for my oldie who had cushings (apparently alfa and sugar can make them worse) in the end I settled for either HiFi lite - lowish sugar and not much Alfa or even better was Redigrass/just grass or any other brand of dried grass - no sugar and no alfa...just grass - though he was not as keen to eat that :rolleyes: I guess the molasses did make the others more tasty :D

Hayz - swapping to chaff from alfa is like you stopping eating sandwiches for lunch and only having a salad instead - you will loose weight :o

[Rarah]

How big is she hayz? How much speedibeet / nuts is she having and how often?

I use the normal sugarbeet - costs less than a fiver a sack and it lasts ages. If I wanted to "up her ration" and save money I would increase the beet in her feed (assuming she's not getting loads of it to start with).

Just a thought?

[Hayz]

Ok so I shouldnt swap them.

She gets 2 feeds a day which all together are 2 scoops beet 1 scoop nuts, veg oil, garlic and 4 scoops alfa.( A scoop and a half is left in over night for her)

She is 16hh I will look into normal beet as am off to feed shop at w/e

[Rarah]

Ok so I shouldnt swap them.

She gets 2 feeds a day which all together are 2 scoops beet 1 scoop nuts, veg oil, garlic and 4 scoops alfa.( A scoop and a half is left in over night for her)

She is 16hh I will look into normal beet as am off to feed shop at w/e


Oh - so you already use the oil???

The only reason I use the cheap beet is because it's cheaper - although I think the speedibeet is unmolassed - I guess it would depend on how sensitive your own horse is with molasses.

I feed mine on oats too, but I don't think that there are that many horses who would be sane if they were having Logic's feeds! :p

[Hayz]

She only gets vegatable oil. She is generally a calm beastie, but i have only had her a month, all could change! :D No way is she getting oats though! (Unless very fattening?? :p )

If the normal beet is cheaper I will get that one. as long as nutritional value is still good?

Is there something else I can add?

[Peanut]

it is high in calcium and protein, as well as fibre and a fair bit of slow-release energy, making it ideal for just about anyone and anything; from aeisure and competition horses to youngsters and veterans.

I find it gives too much energy if fed to my youngster twice a day, so tend to give it only in the evening feed and Hi-Fi for breakfast. But maybe she's just a one-off (highly likely :D ).

[Jessey]

Hayz, there are lot of other feed you could use to increase her calorie intake so she gains some weight, but I think that the diet you have her on now is a pretty good one, mostly fibre with just a few nuts :D

As you have only had her a month, was she getting this same feed before? if not then you may need to give it more time for her to gain weight, any weight gaind is better done slowly anyway :p If she was on that before I would probably wait and see if she picks up alot with the spring grass, not long now :D

Then you could try swapping your pony nuts to Baileys number 4 conditioning cubes, I have had huge sucess with these they don't hot them up but definatly help with weight gain :p or you could try linseed instead of the veggie oil (much more energy dense) or Baileys No 1 cereal meal or barley (be careful with this as it can hot some up) or you could switch to Alfa oil instead of regular alfa A (in addition to the oil you add).

J x

[capalldubh]

Another way of adding a few calories that seems popular atm is the Black Oil Sunflower Seeds - Jackson snaffles these up very enthusiastically and you can feed a cup a day. They apparently also improve coat condition. You would need to work out total amount of fat fed, though...

With the veg oil, you need to check the horse is getting vitamin E as well, I think (so you could consider the Alfa A Oil, which has oil added but also the necessary vitamins to digest/process it).

[Peanut]

Then you could try swapping your pony nuts to Baileys number 4 conditioning cubes, I have had huge sucess with these they don't hot them up but definatly help with weight gain :
J x


A friend of mine feeds Baileys No 4 to her draft horse and has had great results. She tells me that draft horses don't do well on hard feed, so are these 100% fibre? If so, what's the difference between these cubes and ordinary pony nuts?

Nutrition really interests me and I wish I knew more. :)

[Hayz]

Nutrition really interests me and I wish I knew more. :)

Ditto! :)

Ok, so the nuts she gets are just ingatestone nuts so how about changing to Baileys number 4? Also what about Lucienuts and grass nuts?

She came from sales to the dealer to a few days later me! She was only on hay as far as I know.

Dont get me wrong she has put weight on, but its seing those hip bones that bug me, she now has a covering on her ribs (untill she turns her head and they poke through!)

[Jessey]

A friend of mine feeds Baileys No 4 to her draft horse and has had great results. She tells me that draft horses don't do well on hard feed, so are these 100% fibre? If so, what's the difference between these cubes and ordinary pony nuts?
Nope, they are a cereal feed, like pony nuts but based on wheat with soya oil added plus lots of vits and minerals and high quality protein to help with building muscle, the difference from pony nuts is the higher protein and oil content.

Also what about Lucienuts and grass nuts?
These are a fantastic option, I would always try grass nuts before a conditioning 'hard feed' because at this time of year they can just be lacking 'wet forage' which these can replace :D

She came from sales to the dealer to a few days later me! She was only on hay as far as I know.

Dont get me wrong she has put weight on, but its seing those hip bones that bug me, she now has a covering on her ribs (untill she turns her head and they poke through!)
Given you have her on an already nutrient rich diet only 1 month after just getting hay and that she is under weight (though already improving) I would be very careful about adding much more just yet. If she was moderatly thin before (ribs visable etc) and she is now starting to cover up I would stick with what you are doing, increasing her weight too quickly could upset her tummy and the last thing you want is colic or something similar to deal with :eek: I would expect it to take around 3 or more months to get a horse from moderatly thin back up to a reasonable weight :p some take even longer than that.

And don't worry too much about those hips just yet, my anglo arab is pleanty fat enough (has been on a diet all winter) in that you have to feel for his ribs and he still has some fat behind his shoulder but his hips still poke out a little bit :rolleyes: its just the way some horses are until you get them muscled up :p

[Hayz]

Ok, keep all the same but i will maybe put her on Baileys number 4 instead of economy nuts? :)

[Jessey]

As she is already showing weight gain I would just keep it the same, if in a month she has maintained her weight rather than gained any (this is to allow what you are puttingin to work and also to see if she picks up on the spring grass) then consider changing the nuts over :D but you need to weigh tape now and weekly and make a note of it so you can tell if she is acctually gaining weight (when you see them everyday its very hard to honestly tell by sight ;)) and I would also take weekly photos from the same angle, they give you a good comparison and reference :D

[puzzles]

Nutrition really interests me and I wish I knew more. :)

I'm faaaaaaascinated with nutrition any and evry query on here about feeding and i;'m onit. guarenteed! :D a bit of a feed boff-fanatic i'm afraid :rolleyes: so much so that i'm seriously thinking of training as an equine nutritionist, though it's v hard to get tino.
anyway, what am i blabbing on aboput now?

i was just going to say that on te Baileys horse feeds website yoyu xcan apply for the Horse Owners Feed Knowledge Award, a hugely accessible step forwards in gaining more in nutrition.
i did the first one and failed, and am taking more time oevr the esecond application - you have to get 90% i think, to pass. :mad: p*issed off, but hey :rolleyes:

it's worth a try-and-see

xxxxx