Time to rattle your brains!

[ickleannie]

I have no idea where to start it. Use your imagination and picture an 11.2hh(if that) pony, who has odd eyes and in the winter has the most amazing fluffy coat. Now this pony i have had for 9 years and was left in a field for a year and was brought has a 4 year old(backed) before that. The people who had him after that (and before me) had him for an unknown amout of time so he is getting old. His name is Tim, he is bomb proof and i mean bomb proof, very fast great at gymkhanna, a brilliant jumper and really is perfect. If you can stay on:(. I am at the moment teaching a 12 year old how to ride him as i know every little trick he makes. Tim looked after the kid for a month did every thing she asked. Then he started taking off with her now he did this with me when i had him but i stopped it after years, but i had grown out of him! I have some very good riders on him and they cant even stop him. Now he has a very sensitive mouth so we have got him in a happy mouth dutch gag straight bar on the snaffle ring followed by a flash and running martingale. It is a problem because he so clever and got so much going for him. He is very well schooled so i cant take him and the kid back to basics any more! I have got him on placid and it has calmed him down a lot but when he goes you have lost him and the kid cant use her weight or her strength against him because she has little weight and if she fights against him he will through her off or jump the gate has he has done with me before. So any suggestions are welcome!

[Jillybean]

maybe you should get this tack all checked out just to make sure it isnt hurting him anywhere
id also have my vet out to make sure he isnt in any physical pain, something must have triggered off this bad behaviour!

[Piaffe]

Sounds like he's sussed her out and now knows how far he can go.

My horse either takes the mickey immediately with a new rider, or waits a while (if they ride him often) until he knows what they can cope with and then plays up!!

[greylady]

Why cant you take them back to basics? I would certainly try that.
All ponies are capable of taking the mickey. I have an 11.1 pony that my nieces ride. The older is 7 and she is overconfidant. Fletcher (the pony) plays her up all the time and will get away with everything he can. She battles along with him.
The younger who is 5 and a shy type with little confidence gets on much better. He goes like a dream with her on him even if she is nervous. Maybe thats why.

[cvb]

If the child who is riding is reasonable, you could try 2 reins. One on snaffle ring as now, for when he is good. Then a rein on a lower ring for when he tries to disappear at high speed.

I had to do this with my older pony. 99 percent of the time he was fine in a snaffle. But 1 percent we needed some serious breaks. The double reins worked a treat.

Sometimes we underestimate what child riders can cope with. I rode with 2 reins when I was quite little (on a pelham). Just make sure the reins aren't too think for the child's hand !

[ros]

If you're only using the gag on the snaffle rein it won't have much effect. (I don't like gags anyway, sorry.) If he's very sensitive, why not think about a little hard rubber Pelham - not the big thick vulcanite type but the thinner ones with a metal bar covered in softer rubber; the happy mouth bits are OK but they're still feel very hard in the mouth, whereas the rubber ones have a bit of give.

You can't stop a horse in any bit if he really sets his neck and goes, but I think with the reflex reaction of the curb you have a better chance of keeping him soft and stopping him from setting himself against you in the first place. It could be worth trying if you haven't already.

The other thing, if he's getting on a bit, is to make sure the saddle isn't bridging his back as it starts to get a bit dippy - it can creep up on you sometimes, I think, without it being obvious at first! Although from what you say it could, of course, just be CPS (Cheeky Pony Syndrome).

[Nickie]

I know I'm going to get shouted at for this - please be gentle with your comebacks folks!

All I can say is - you've got him so well strapped down - he should give up being silly, right? No. wrong - he'll fight harder!

It can't get much worse. You say he has jumped the gate before?? Sounds to me like he is trying to tell you something big time!! If he is in that much of a state to jump over a gate to get out of the school then something is either scaring him or very severly wrong.

Firstly, I would have everything checked from his teeth to his back to his saddle and feet.

Secondly, remember that whatever a horse does - bolting, bucking, nipping it is all communication. What could he be saying to you? Is the bit pinching his mouth? Is the rider pulling on him? You say he used to do this with you - what changed before he stopped? If you didn't need all that stuff on him when you got him to stop before why are you using it now?

Have you tried lunging him? Does he go any better?

Also if he is pretty old - maybe he just doesn't feel up to it anymore? Could his back be getting weak and the pressure of any rider be too much? Maybe get the vet to check. Also if he is old he could be a bit achy with his muscles and having a few more 'off days' than he used to.

My boy (who's 11 now) did that to me for months and I got to the point I wouldn't ride him out. It turns out - the first time he was genuinely scared - it was a spook that ended up as full scale flight reaction, the rest of the time it was him sensing me getting scared. Eventually it got too much for him and he would just take off. I, like yourself, can't stop him when he goes, tried turning to walls, tried sitting back, yelling stand!, ignoring him. Everything.

Now he is very quiet with me, so I stay quiet. We hack out, we do jumping but I had to learn that he was telling me, "it must be scary if you're scared mum!"

Someone has a signature that says:

A good horseman can hear his horse talk to him. An excellent one can hear him whisper.

I am sorry to say but I think yours is shouting.

Nicola

[*sparkle*]

i agree nickie - extra nosebands, martingales, harsher bits etc didn't help my arab from bolting off with me but, suprise suprise, lessons from a good instructor, taking things back to basics and slowly working up did!

one thing i think hasn't been metioned, what are you feeding this pony? If he is getting a high energy feed and little exercise, he will be more likely to get up to mischief! maybe he could be fed less or exercised more

[Nickie]

this thread has been continued on another page!

The new one is at:

http://www.newrider.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10823