3 ring gag bit

[lizayr]

I am looking for advice on such a bit for my very strong cob, he is currently in a pelham and gets very excited raising head in a martingale when jumping, i have tried a waterford snaffle but not very good in turning using the waterford, more brakes and easier turning in pelham, not sure and looking for people who use the gag type bit and do you have to use double reins or can you get a double rein that tracks into a single rein as dont think i could old two reins constantly, any advice would be appreciated.

[Palomino Mare]

hi, i used to use a dutch gag on my sj pony and it was perfect for me and her. i would use the snaffle ring for flatwork, 2nd ring for jumping, only think i used the bottom ring in serious situations like xc or hunting but i tried to avoid it.

i've never seen somebody ride in a dutch gag with 2sets of reins. i would maybe try your horse in the 2nd ring and if the doesn't work then seek professional advice.

amz x

[PinkGlamourGurl]

The dutch gag is supposed to be used with two reins! One on the snaffle then one on the 2nd or bottom ring as a back up.

Personally I DESPISE the dutch gag. HATE IT HATE IT HATE IT. But thats probably because I've seen it being used incorrectly so many times.

Snaffle all the way!

[lizayr]

thanks for your help suppose back to the drawing board thanks anyways :)

[PinkGlamourGurl]

Have you tried just a snaffle? Or something with a french link? Some horses dont like the nutcracker action of a single jointed bit.

What about a kimblewick?

[CurlyWurlyRach]

if your horse puts its head up then a gag isnt likely to help as it works by leverage - lifting the head.

did your horse go ok in the waterford? you can get that mouthpiece with full cheeks for steering help, look at www.shop4bits.com :)

[lizayr]

i have tried a snaffle french link, loose ring, myler correctional, kimblewick to no avail so i went back to his waterford as it does stop him leaning the best bit for jumping in when he gets excited is the pelham just wondered if what else was out there, so far i use pelham for jumping for control and waterford schooling to get him in a outline and not leaning on the bit but he is still strong

[lizayr]

the waterford i use is a waterford with full cheeks for schooling which is good just bit strong pulling at jumping in it

[CurlyWurlyRach]

have you looked at something like a kineton noseband?

[lizayr]

nope jumping i use a grackle or flash dont know about kinneton sorry bout spelling, what does it do?

[Palomino Mare]

The dutch gag is supposed to be used with two reins!

i'm not disputing this statement, i'm just defending my comment with this picture.

i personally have not seen a horse ridden with 2reins but i'm not saying that this is not right. all i know is what i have been taught and after my pony having done 7yrs worth of pony club with 3different riders and numerous instructors whilst wearing a gag with one pair of reins, it has never been commented on and the choice of bit has never been disputed.

lizayr - do you get regular lessons? what might be an idea is to do some schooling to lighten your horses mouth?

[CurlyWurlyRach]

PGG is right, the dutch gag is supposed to have 2 reins but so few people actually do use two that its not 'normal' to use it properly.

[lizayr]

we get a half hour lesson once a week mostly lots of circles changing of rein, lots of transitions then when he gets all hot n bothered off he goes, especially on a group lesson, just trying to find various ideas out have joined local riding club but wary of making a full of ourselves if he goes off on one

[Palomino Mare]

hi, i will agree with the 2reins, i'm just a bit confused as to why nobody has said before.

i can sympathise with a horse that uses its stregnth against you. i wouldn't use a grackle though as this clamps the horses mouth shut. i she taking hold of his bit, leaning on you at all?

all i can really suggest for the jumping is try to slow everything down. what does your RI think?

amz x

[minderloo]

yeh gags are gr8!! but ull find wen on 3rd ring 9lowest) they are quite hard 2 turn with- but gr8 out xc!!

[lizayr]

he leans on the pelham although he can be pulled up better, the waterford he does not lean although strong, my instructor is always telling us to slow down plenty of schooling on the flat, but if you see his picture he has a huge crest and pulling against him can be hard just wondered what else was out there as dont have a huge budget for buying more bits that wont work and scared i damage his mouth

[PinkGlamourGurl]

This is why I hate dutch gags so much. Cos hardly anyone uses them correctly.

Not having a go at you Palomino mare, just re-read my first post and its a bit snappy :o (Very peed off atm, having 2nd thoughts about things and just generally arguing with friends!!)

I would go with the slowing things down. Cobs can be a nightmare, they know their strength and use it against you.

Have you had tack back and teeth checked?

[lizayr]

he seen dentist 3 months ago and when i got him had a ill fitting saddle in october, i have had his back realigned cause of this, and a brand new fitted saddle for him, also vet checked him over while doing vaccinations in February, thanks for advice will keep watching see what tips i can pick up through this site, and yes cobs know there own strength and boy does he play on it :o

[solomon]

I use a 3 ring gag with one rein, and only on second ring in excitable circumstances and I can think of much worse bits to use! Get one with a reasonably thick mouthpiece (as long as it's comfortable in his mouth) so you are only using the gag for poll pressure rather than pressure across the bars of the mouth and give it a try - like everything else different things work for different people/horses, you may be pleasantly surprised!

[Pink's lady]

It does sound like you've gone about as far with peices of metal in his mouth as you can - you're going to get to the stage where even bard wire won't have an effect.

You're going to hear this far too many times for your liking but really only schooling and lots and lots of practise until jumping is no longer so exciting is going to have any effect.

I would be taking the bit out totally and schooling in just a headcollar (in the school the worse he can do is charge around until he's bored) and totally re-teach him to respond to light pressure. It will take ages but will be worth it.

Kalli is what some people would call 'strong' and rides with a hard mouth, mostly due to a lack of understanding - she certainly could feel the bit and often foun it uncomfortable. I didn't want to go along the stronger bit route so instead did the total opposite and rode her in just a headcollar and schooled her to seat and legs. She now stop with just a light pressure and is happy in a simple french link.

The other option you could try is a kineton noseband, which takes some pressure off the mouth and onto the nose.

[Em 1]

.... or can you get a double rein that tracks into a single rein as dont think i could old two reins constantly, any advice would be appreciated.

If you do decide to go down this route then I'd really, really recommend getting some split (or divided) reins. These are exactly as you describe - they have 'Y' shaped pieces at the bit end so you get more of a double rein effect. Have a look here to see the ends of split reins:

http://www.neueschulebits.com/acatalog/Leather_Cheeks__Curbs__Etc__.html

Hope this helps:)

[Ms Kitty]

I use dutch gag on my horse, and yes, with just one set of reins, but I do believe I am experienced enough to use it correctly. I use the snaffle ring for schooling (when he is too strong to be ridden in a regular loose ring snaffle), second ring for anything else. Don't think I have needed to use the third ring apart from trying what affect it would give.

I love the dutch gag, I can make pretty much any horse go well with it, but I can also easily see how it can be used wrong, and have seen it many times. I don't understand why so many let little kids use it, many of them have no idea what they are doing.

And in regards to the action of the bit, in my opinion it gives more poll pressure than lift, hence why I have had no trouble with my current horse who has a habit of rearing when panicked. Though like any bit, when pulled hard enough, it will make a horse rear regardless.

I think it might be a worth a shot to try it on yours, but that is of course up to you, also whether you want to try it with just one set of reins or two! I am not going to get into the conversation of which is the correct way of using the bit, as I have been told by my instructors that both are correct, just depends on preferance.

Nina x

[lizayr]

thinking bout a kineton noseband with a snaffle maybe the pressure across his nose will be enough to pull him up, read on other sites about it quite useful for jumping and cross country to, and a snaffle wont harm his mouth ebay here i come...

[connieD]

if he goes well in the pelham and the waterford snaffle stops him leaning why not try a waterford pelham and combine the 2??

[lizayr]

will have a think could sell bits back to tack shop, thanks for suggestions its appreciated

[Pink's lady]

Good luck finding a kineton on ebay - I've been looking for ages!

Once you start looking at severe mouth peices with levage action added you're really going the wrong way - the amount of pain something like a 3 ring waterford can cause is horrible:(

It's not a case of he can't feel it - he's just decided not to listen. So when you start talking about 'stronger bits' your talking about causing so much discomfort that the horse is forced to take notice else his mouth is ripped to shreds. There is no bit that can physicall stop a horse, only ones that cause so much pain they don't have any other choice.

Something like a kineton changes the action completely to a different senstaion which may make they pay attention a bit more.

[jenren!!]

How much does he respond to your seat? Some horses have strong bits in them and become 'dead' in the mouth because of such strength in the bit. Sometimes stronger bits arent the answer, but unfortunately you can only try it to see, and in some cases it can cause bad long-term effects.

I would do the same as what PL says, take the bit away and see how he responds to your seat and legs. Practise half-halting and slowing your rising when he rushes off. Ask your RI to work on this in lessons.

[lizayr]

well not keen on stronger bit nor even pelham, so willing to try kineton using a snaffle trial and error i suppose not so tempted bout strong bits except for what he is in now

[Pink's lady]

Have you tried riding in just a headcollar? What does he do? If you ride in the school the worse he can do is charge about till he's bored and if he doesn't you could start trying to school him a bit in a headcollar. You might be suprised about how well he responds, although steering tends to be a bit pants.