Heavy Hunter. Noisy breathing

[Lucie]

My friend has bought a 16.3hh, shire x (heavy weight), 9 year old gelding for happy hacking.
Apparently he was bred with heavy hunter showing in mind, but was sold when it was discovered that he had noisy breathing.

He is unfit and overweight, but my friend was told that the reason he makes this noise is because his neck is so thick, and the thickness has affected his windpipe (and other breathing apparatus).

I rode him this morning for half an hour and although he sweated up and sounded out of breath and puffy very quickly, he was still very eager and didn't feel as bad as he sounded.

I am now very interested in this mystery. Is this thick neck = puffing a common problem? Will it improve with fitness? If he sired with a lighter weight mare, would he pass it on (obviously being a gelding he couldn't, but in theory. . . . )? Can it be corrected?

[Pink's lady]

getting out of breathe is not unusual. But making noises ISN'T normal. Big horses like him are prone to larangeal paralysis so it would be worth getting a vet to check him out. Being massively obese with a vry thick throatlatch would push on the larynx but that shouldn't have stopped him showing, as he would be fit and slim.

[Lucie]

getting out of breathe is not unusual. But making noises ISN'T normal. Big horses like him are prone to larangeal paralysis so it would be worth getting a vet to check him out. Being massively obese with a vry thick throatlatch would push on the larynx but that shouldn't have stopped him showing, as he would be fit and slim.

Thank you Pink.
He isn't my horse to get the vet to (although I do know he hasn't been vetted so it would be interesting to hear his take on it).

I wouldn't say he's obese, only a bit overweight. But I'm a TB gal so I've not got expert eyes for his type ;) .

There's no swelling around the throat or neck far as I'm aware (only had a really quick look).

For the first 5 minutes walking he made no noise.
Then we trotted and after 30 seconds the noise started.
It comes with every breath in trot, with 70% of breaths in canter and none in walk (even after a trot or canter).

Yet he is eager :cool: .

If he was a TB I'd be very worried. But this is the first I've heard of heavy hunters having this erm, syndrome.
So it's not common?

[Pink's lady]

Reccurent laryngeal nerve paralysis (also know as 'roaring' or laryngeal hemiplasia) is seen in big horses. TB are a common breed, but mostly because there are so many of them and they work hard.

The roaring will occur anytime he needs to work harder and get air into his lungs - the noise is the arytenoid cartilage and vocal folds flapping in the airstream. You'll hear it little in walk (unless he's power walking up a hill) only in trot if he's unfit and finds it hard work, and mostly in canter and gallop when he needs to increase his breathing.

Usually it only causes exercise intolerance (they get tired quickly as they can't get enough air into the lungs) but it does depend how bad it it.

They can have a tie back operation which pulls the arytenoid cartilage permenatly out off the way. it's not massively expensive and works well. But the horse will then be prone to asperating food.

I would presuade your friend to have a vet visit - make it very clear that roaring nosies are NOT normal, regardless of how unfit or fat a horse is.

[Lucie]

Reccurent laryngeal nerve paralysis (also know as 'roaring' or laryngeal hemiplasia) is seen in big horses. TB are a common breed, but mostly because there are so many of them and they work hard.

The roaring will occur anytime he needs to work harder and get air into his lungs - the noise is the arytenoid cartilage and vocal folds flapping in the airstream. You'll hear it little in walk (unless he's power walking up a hill) only in trot if he's unfit and finds it hard work, and mostly in canter and gallop when he needs to increase his breathing.

Usually it only causes exercise intolerance (they get tired quickly as they can't get enough air into the lungs) but it does depend how bad it it.

They can have a tie back operation which pulls the arytenoid cartilage permenatly out off the way. it's not massively expensive and works well. But the horse will then be prone to asperating food.

Wow thanks :) . Textbook answer and everything :D !

Do you know why it would cause problems? Or what would cause it to cause problems (if that makes sense :o )?

Wouldn't it have to be life or death to put such a big animal on the operating table?

Just seen your edit. Yes will do ;) .

[Pink's lady]

It's usually caused by idiopathic (i.e they've not idea what causes it, it just happens) atrophy of the recurrent laryngeal nerve, which innervates the muscles that pull the arytenoid cartilage back and out the way of the windpipe when they breath in and relaxs and drop the cartilages back to close to windpipe when they eat or drink (to stop food going down into the lungs)

The nerve is a huge long nerve that runs from the neck, down into the thorax then bends and runs back up into the throat (for some weird reason - it's bad planning;)). It's a very long nerve and can be easily damaged or just dies off for an unknown reason.

So basically trauma (occasionally infections or toxins) to the neck can sometimes cause it (but it's unusual) but most common it just is:o

A tie back operation can be done standing I think (I cant' actually remember) so they are sedated and loacalled. It would be something that would probably need insurance thought, as infections aren't unheard off and bump the price up dramatically.

To be honest though, if he's only going to be a hack getting him fit will probably sufice.

[Ms Kitty]

My friend's Standardbred trothorse made loud sounds when trotting and he was diagnosed to have floppy vocal folds that also affected his trotracing career, as he always ran out of steam at the final leg of the race. He was operated and got back to normal pretty soon, and from what we could gather he would have made a full recovery back to racing, but unfortunately he got loose during a night and went into the mares' field (he was a stallion) and one of them kicked him in the knee so hard he is now just a field ornament. :rolleyes:

Friend was quite miffed after going through with the operation and all.. :o

He hasn't had any problems with eating food.. No idea how they did the operation though, sorry.

Nina x

[eml]

A vet visit would put your friends mind at rest, noises on breathing out are good, on breathing in bad!! At this time of year it is also possible that the problem is low grade allergy not necessarily 'whistling' or 'roaring' (common names for the condition very well described by Pinks Lady.

I had a pony many years ago who had this problem when the only option was inserting a tube into the windpipe for the pony to breathe through, without this he was a happy hacker with it and the consequent ability to breathe a star showjumper. These days a hobday or tie back is a minor standing up operation but you are not then allowed to show a horse that has had it.

[Lucie]

Thanks everyone :) .

All advice noted and will pass it along ;) .

[barlz_max_hero]

max often breathes loud enough for me to hear wen i ride, so do some other horses from the stables where i ride, he is quite fit, and it is just loud enough for me to hear. it has worried me in the past but his owner rides him sometimes and he doesnt seem to worried about it.

so it certainly wont be stopping us from showing or jumping for that matter :D