Laminitis and shoe's - need advice!

[Sam_22]

I brought Brandy in with laminitis 3 weeks ago (he lives out 24/7). He was on bute for 5 days and has been on box rest for 2 weeks now. He tore out of his stable on Saturday (much to my horror) and ran into the sand paddock, but actually seemed to be ok. He was a bit footy on concrete but fine in the paddock.

My vet has advised me to get front shoes put on him, but I'm not totally sure if it's a good idea (he's barefoot). Has anyone any opinions?? He had laminitis last year and my vet advised the same. When he got shoes on his front he was defiently a lot better - but I've been seeing threads up with people advising against putting shoes on so now i'm a bit confused! Any help would be brilliant. Thank you :o

[Pink's lady]

Vets LOVE shoes because many horse vets aren't horsey or if they are they tend to be very traditional. Plus vet school tells you only horses at rest are barefoot and they need shoes on to work:rolleyes:

Personally I would ignore him unless he can come up with a very good reason for putting shoes on. It the vet thinks he needs heart bar's on, then shoes are nesseasry.

[Bay Mare]

If you have a trimmer I would speak to them preferably in conjunction with your vet.

In the meantime do some research on barefoot and rehabilitation. There are quite a few laminitics who have successfully been managed barefoot but you do need support which includes trimming, nutritional etc advice.

For some situations it is better that the horse goes back to shoes but that needs to be a decision made by people who are stood in front of the horse looking at the feet and who know the pros and cons of shoes and the pros and cons of barefoot.

I know what I would prefer and which route I would want to take but I don't know your situation or your horse so it would be unfair of me to try and persuade you to my way of thinking.

You have to do what is best for your situation. If you decide to remain barefoot (which could be a viable option even if heartbars are in the equation) then you do need the commitment, the support and the knowledge or it won't work.

All the best.

[Yann]

Having looked after a chronic laminitic for 18 months (who was shod for most of that time) I would always prefer to keep shoes off if at all possible. Although they can make the horse more comfortable concussion and the additional loading of an already compromised hoof wall was always a worry, and she did suffer an episode of concussive laminitis with her subsequent loaner. Not only that but with no wear going on at the heels the feet were constantly getting long and putting the hoof onto the toe balance wise, again counterproductive. I wonder if this is why you sometimes see shod laminitics with very steep hoof pastern angles? It's the opposite of what the foot needs.

I saw an immediate and rapid improvement when we took the shoes off for winter, the growth down of good attached hoof wall speeded up and she kept her heels down more between trims through the ability to wear them naturally. If I'd known more about hoof boots at the time then I'd never had got her shod at all, using them along with pads will keep a horse comfortable enough to be exercised and ridden and give the feet excellent support and protection, all of which will help speed up growth and strengthen the foot. The act of shoeing a laminitic horse can also be very uncomfortable for them.

If your horse has just had an attack and is already apparently sound on a sand school then I would hope heart bars won't be suggested. Good luck with whatever you need to do to sort him out :)

[Gill]

My experience is with my own pony who had L a couple of years ago. It is such a devastating thing you look for information everywhere, and my search led us into barefoot horse keeping. I could not think it right to nail shoes onto damaged feet, even though my vet suggested that was the first step in bringing her back to work.
Luckily I have a brilliant farrier who looks after her feet for me and he was in total agreement with me. She has never worn shoes since, though sometimes hoof boots, and never will.
If you read Pete Rameys books and website they give you hope about L and recovery from it. You have to decide in the end what you think is right, so good luck.

[Sam_22]

Thank you all for your comments. I think I've decided not to get front shoes put on Brandy.

When I first got him 2 1/2 years ago he had shoes on all his life. But after a summer of being out at grass his feet were terrible. I eventually made the decision to have his shoe's taken off because he was only keeping shoe's on for maybe only 2 weeks at a time. My farrier is brilliant and done a great job and it's taken over a year for his feet to get into a good condition. I rang my farrier tonight and he said it's totally my decision but I think it would be best to not get shoe's on. I will defiently look into hoof boots, I've heard of them but never seen one! He's on a high fibre, low sugar diet and will be on box rest for another couple of weeks.

P.S He's driving me mental by trying to sneak out past the wheelbarrow at nights when I'm trying to muck him out! My normally quiet pony has turned demented after 3 weeks in the stable! :rolleyes:

[MelanieD]

Shoes would probably make him appear more comfortable which is good in one way, but OTOH it'd also make it harder to spot the mild bits of laminitis so you'd only see actual lameness when the laminitis got pretty bad. Appearing more comfortable because of shoes wouldn't take away the metabolic issue causing the laminitis.

My experience of dealing with the same horse with mild laminitis with and without shoes has been that barefoot was far better. When shod she wasn't really obviously lame so didn't even realise what had happened until later, but the feet went wrong with lots of flare and infection and kept getting worse until they weren't keeping shoes on very well there was so much infection. Barefoot it was obvious straight away that she was footy and was able to deal with the diet problems straight away, she was more comfortable pretty quickly and back doing light work in a month. Hardly had any infection to deal with and the flare grew out over about 7 months, so a year later her feet look totally normal and she's capable of a lot of work barefoot including 12 mile road hacks and jumping. I'd always go for barefoot with laminitics now.

[Yann]

If you want a bit of info on hoof boots and pads then have a look at www.easycareinc.com and www.thesaddleryshop.co.uk who do a hire before you buy.

If you don't already, supplementing magnesium at the rate of 10-15g a day in the form of milled magnesite from an agricultural feed merchant would be a really good idea as it helps prevent the metabolic crises that are thought to trigger an attack.

[vasey]

I would leave the shoes off - as it may cause continuous pressure and cause the pedal bones to rotate. If the pony becomes worse then the pony will require either heart bar or egg bar shoes to relive the pressure. Alternatively you can have 'glue-on' shoes!

[Bebe]

I'd leave shoes off also, they'll only mask the problem and potentially mean that by the time you pick up any problems they'll be that much worse.

I'm struggling a bit with my mare at the moment. She's not technically got laminitis as such but if I leave her out 24/7, even for one night, she comes in slightly footsore over stones and with a digital pulse on all 4 hooves. If I keep her in overnight she becomes comfortable and the pulses go. I've now got to decide how I want to manage her over the summer months. My choices are to keep her in overnight all year round, turn out during day muzzled and leave out overnight without the muzzle or stable her during the day and turn out overnight. All 3 choices have their pro's and con's and I'm not sure which is best, currently I'm stabling her overnight but it's not ideal. I think I'm going to have a go with both other choices and see which she prefers.

[gingeremmie]

Have you got a strategy worked out for when he can go out again? You'll need to limit his grass intake in some way so he doesn't get it again.

Echo the others about magnesium.

Personally I wouldn't put shoes on, and I would look to management issues first - like you are doing with the low sugar low starch high fibre diet - because shoes can just mask the symptoms, again as other people have said.

Good luck with it all!

[Shadowlark]

http://www.hoofrehab.com/

That's about all I have to say ;)

[Sam_22]

I will most defiently not be getting front shoe's put on him! After hearing everyone's experiences and going onto the website Shadowlark posted, I feel he would be better barefoot. Thank you all for your brilliant advice! :)

The problem with Brandy is that he has severe COPD and cannot be stabled, so he lives out 24/7. I'm quite anxious that he gets back out once his feet are better so I've bought him a best friends grazing muzzle for when he can go back out. I was thinking of putting him out at night (read somewhere that sugars are low in the grass at night) to start with and then gradually starting to put him out through the day with his muzzle on, then taking his muzzle of at night. Does that sound like a good or bad idea? Is there anything I could give him when he's out in the field to help prevent another attack??

Before I found this website I really didn't have a clue how to treat laminitis. I didn't realise that their diet had to be managed, that they needed box rest :eek: and that their grazing had to be limited in the summer months etc. My vet told me none of that - he just gave me bute, told me to get two front shoes put on his feet and not to ride him for a week or 2 :eek: :eek: !! THANK GOD FOR NR.

[Bebe]

I can only advise as to what I'd do with my own horse so it's up to you to interpret it in the way that best suits your horse.

For a full blown attack - e.g., rocked back stance, staggering or unable to walk, very obvious digital pulses, etc I'd box rest (no movement at all, not even taking out of the stable to muck out) until the digital pulses had gone completely and the horse was obviously more comfortable, then box rest for another week or two on top of that. If you catch the horse early enough you can cold hose the hooves twice a day for 10 mins but you should only do this in the first stages. I'd also look to supplement with high levels of Magnesium and Vitamin B1 (both together have been shown to really help with laminitis).

For a mild attack - e.g., a bit footsore, raised digital pulse, horse might be stumbling a bit, etc I'd remove from grass until digital pulses had gone, then add a few days on for good measure. I'd give Magnesium also if I wasn't already.

The key is to restrict movement until the initial inflammation has gone and the only way to know if this is the case (and even then it's not definitive) is to go by the horses digital pulse. Ideally you don't want to be able to find it but a very slight pulse is normal for some horses so you'll need to work out his baseline once he's better. Heat in the feet isn't a reliable method of checking for laminitis.

Once the horse is able to go back out on grass I'd be really cautious to begin with. My mare had 2 weeks off grass recently because she wasn't right in her feet. She had one weeks box rest followed by a week of gradually increasing turnout, starting with 3 hours and building up to 6. During the 2nd week of turnout we built from 6 to 12 hours. I've now discovered that she can't be out for more than 24 hours on grass without coming in with digital pulses so she's in at night and out during the day.

As far as the muzzle goes it should be a huge help. Night-time turnout is considered to be the best option for grass sensitive horses (including insulin resistant horses in there, not just laminitics though the two tend to go together) but in your case I don't think I'd want to go straight to 12 hours or more on grass from box rest. If you can work out a routine so that he has a few hours out on grass muzzled initially, gradually increasing the time muzzled until he's out for full days that might be your best option. At that point I'd continue to muzzle during the day but attempt to turn out at night without it, checking for digital pulses twice a day initially.

[LokiSofi]

Loki is on box rest with Lami and a mildly rotated pedal bone. My vet has instructed my farrier to keep him unshod and just trim him in a different way which will hlep him...

[Sam_22]

I'm going on Saturday to get him some magnesium and vitamin B1, at the moment the only thing he's on is a small handful of 'happy hoof' and his normal hay everyday. When I'm up tonight I'll look for a digital pulse (hopefully he won't have one :( ). I'll build his turn-out time at night gradually until he can stay out the whole night, then very gradually start letting him out through the day with his muzzle on, while checking for digital pulses. So far he's been on 3 weeks box rest, I had planned to keep him on box rest for another 3 weeks, then letting him out for a walk to see how he is. The vet doesn't think he need x-rays but I kind of want them for my own piece of mind. I'll see how he gets on after his box rest and if i'm still worrying then I'll get another vet to do the x-ray's. If a horse has a rotated pedal bone, how many weeks box rest would you be talking about??

Tried the muzzle on him for the first time last night and he was horrified! But if it will help prevent him putting weight on and getting laminitis, then I'm all for it! :)

[Sam_22]

Have been checking Brandy's feet and he has no digital pulse and he is standing on concrete with no problems - yipee!! Still a bit anxious to take him off box rest so I will keep him on box rest for another 2/3 weeks and gradually start letting him out and seeing how he is.

Thanks for your comments everyone - you were all very helpful!!

[happy highlande]

If you have a sand paddock it is fine to let him out in that - my mum kept her lammi pony in the sand school when he was recovering - he could move and was given hay to eat - ideal recovery situation. If he is going crazy in the box, has no digital pulse, is not on pain killers (acp or bute etc) and is keen to move then start with sessions in the school - the sand will provide some hoof support.

My lammi wee one has been barefoot for years - my farrier trims her hooves to help keep things stable - far better than nailing things onto sore feet!!

[Cochise]

If you want another success case, look at my little Cheeky man. He was barefoot for 9 months before he got laminitis. He was barefoot through the rehab time, and is still barefoot 14 months later. My vet never suggested putting shoes on him, it was other horsey people here who were going "put heartbars on him!" :) He's gone on to have a successful life post laminitis.
Good luck with your horse's rehabilitation, it's difficult, but sounds like he's in good hands.