need help with canter

[love2z]

My Quarter Horse gelding (J.J.) is 8 yo. I have owned him for nearly a year. We CANNOT establish canter. I get him into a strong, balanced trot, apply strong outside leg and hand and smooch or cluck and he takes the bit and "ducks out" to the gate. Last summer, he would get nappy and/or lock up and rear. We have been doing a LOT of join-up and a variety of ground work exercises lately.
I have been avoiding the canter-issue just because I am tired of the same discussion, the same argument. Today, I felt ready to try it again - just because we've been doing so well with the ground work. Well, the good news is that he did not get nappy - he maintained forward motion (he might have trotted all day if I'd let him). But, he still became agitated with the canter cues and ducked out to the gate. When he does this, I circle him several times and then get him going forward. He does not appear to be in pain. He is perfectly patient to saddle and to mount. Canter is just not in his contract/vocabulary and I would really like some help in getting it there. I use a smooth snaffle. He neck-reins and direct-reins just fine - for the most part, he is "programmed" for english and western riding.
Any help is appreciated. Let me know if more details are necessary. Thank you.

[Gracie]

Have you attempted lunging your horse at the canter, and teaching him the commands from the ground?
Have you had the vet out to check his back, teeth etc.
Could he be over bitted? A strong bit can cause resistance?

[KateWooten]

I don't know if this is the same issue, but my 11 yr old standardbred type of mare, who has been a hunter for years, can't canter in the school with me either. She can go fast in a straight line on a trail, but she's very reluctant to do so in a confined area - and she can trot reaaly, really fast !!! I suspect it's a balance thing - and that she's never been asked to go slow and balanced - she rushes and grabs the bit and it all goes wrong if I force her.

What I've been doing is putting her in the round pen, and just working her there at a walk and trot, just loose, no lunge line or anything - basically letting the round pen do most of the work for me ... and working on walk-trot-walk, inside turns, etc etc. Then after ten minutes or so, I really raise my energy and give her canter cues .. but big and strong ... at first I had to literally run after her with a rope, screaming like a banshee .... then as soon as I got one stride of canter, I dropped all the pressure and let her come in, gave her treats and put her away.

A couple of sessions of this, and when I would give her the pre-cue ("ok, are you ready?, can you do it ?...... let's GO!"), you could see her get all serious on the 'are you ready' and she'd offer canter immediately. It was an effort for her, so I made sure to really reward that effort. It took us maybe a week to get a full canter circle reliably on both reins, and then we tried it under saddle - which by then was easy - I didn't have to steer her or use any leg, it was enough to get to the end of the session and say ... 'ok, are you ready? can you do it ... ?'

Because of course by then, we'd got it established that the instant she gave me the canter, she'd get her big reward - the end of the session.

[Gracie]

Kate has a good point, but it must also be noted that Kate's horse is a standardbred, bred for trotting, and to be good and fast it... a quater horse wasn't bred to trot....
Just something to throw in, because I know a lot of Standardbreds who have that problem, but not as many QH!

[KateWooten]

I thought someone might pick me up for that :) !! It's Summer - as far as we know, her sire was a Tennessee Walking Horse, and her Momma is most likely QH - hence she's jokingly been dubbed our 'foundation Standardbred'. She was raised in a hunter/jumper yard and that's all she's ever done, but honestly, she has that big huge Standardbred trot - I think the hugeness of her trot is a big part of why she finds canter so difficult. Oddly, when she's up and running, she has the smoothest canter on the planet - it's just the getting her there !

it is odd to see a straight QH reluctant to canter - and of course from here, we can't tell from here if it's conformation, pain, remembered pain, lack of suppleness .... but if you can put a HUGE incentive up there for the horse to at least try the canter transition, I think you can make a big difference.

[love2z]

Definitely some good feedback so far. I'm glad I'm not the only one with this issue! I will put him in the round pen and see how that goes...
My barn has a trainer who comes out every Thursday evening. Folks just sign up for a time-slot to get an hour of one-on-one. I have my slot reserved so I'll post the results of that.

[entreat]

Ensure you're supporting the canter aid with inside leg too. this will help in initiating the correct foot falls.

Do you ask on a corner or a straight? asking on a corner (as you come off the short and onto the long side of the arena) will help get the correct foot falls too.

Also... try not to let you horse 'Power trot' into canter. Harrassing him will only end in frustration for both of you. You'll be frustrated as hes not giving what you want, and he's frustrated as you keep asking & asking & demanding him do 'something', but damned if he can figure out what it is!

My horse has a shocking canter... some times I think he's gonna go straight through the arena fence!! Because of this, he needs to be fair warmed up for it all. most of the hour-long session is at trot, working on shortening & lengthening his trot, and getting flexion. (coming down on the bit is optional at this stage as he's not really got the balance & straightness for it.) When I ask for canter, he has to be in a steady & balanced active trot, but if he starts rushing, I slow him back down again (by slowing my rising) until I feel him back under me (instead of 3 strides ahead!!), and then I ask on a bend. If I don't apply enough outside leg, I get a counter canter... something I figured out by accident!!

Make sure you're not throwing away the contact when you ask... you'll loose all that energy you've asked for out thefront end, and if he canters he'll 'fall' into it instead of a nice transition powered from behind (well... that's what we're working towards). And don't lean forwards either. lean back a bit to allow his shoulders to lift.

Mouse is a more forward horse, but doesn't enjoy cantering all that much, and has trouble staying in canter through corners, so we are working on roughly 20m circles (oblongs... amebas on a bad day!! LOL!). He need more wokr at trot to develop his balance.

I've found once in canter, i instinctively want to 'fatal foetal', so leaning right back helps (even though to every one on the ground, I'm just sitting upright!) , and I have so much more feel. He's the first horse I can actually feel the footfalls with!

[Jessey]

If it could be a balance issue then you colud try cantering just on a straight line - out on the trails or in a large arena as this takes far less effort and balance than circles do.