Vits and minerals for lamanitics.

[alwaysfallingof]

Right guys...

I need a broad spectrum vitamin and mineral supplement that I can give Max to supplement the fact that I'm soaking all the goodness out of his hay.

It needs to be low starch (obviously:p ), I need to be able to feed it in conjunction with Formula 4 Feet, and it must be very palatable because he's a fussy s*d.

Ideas?

[gingeremmie]

Trouble is I don't think you're going to find anything that will complement F4F, because it has certain vits and mins in so if you supplement with another complete balancer you will end up with too much of those particular vits and mins.

Personally I would scrap the F4F as I've not heard of anyone having success with it (although I would like to hear of anyone who has!) and I would feed either top spec anti lam or bailey's lo cal balancer. I would also feed magnesium for a few weeks and see if this helps, yes I know you are in effect "overdosing" by feeding magnesium over and above the magnesium that's already in the top spec/bailey's lo cal but it's been seen that lami ponies are often deficient in magnesium.

I feed bailey's lo cal, mag ox, salt and rosehips to my laminitic in either a small amount of hifi lite or safe and sound chaff. When he was having bute he got unmollassed sugar beet (speedi beet) to disguise the bute in.

[martini55]

I use formula4feet with my laminitic. I really like the supplement, it is a general all-round supplement but the one thing it does lack is magnesium. I think there is only around 1g of it in it per scoop! So I would suggest supplementing with magnesium on top of the F4F- I think magox is probably best for a laminitic (it's what I use) as I believe it is easier on the digestive system. I know some people who have had little success with anti lam.

[Jessey]

F4F, farriers formula etc are pretty all round - they have lots of vits and mins in them - with my guy he was on FF and I didn't give any additional supplement, though have reacently started him on magnesium I am seeing some changes in his personality (he's much calmer) which suggests there was a defiency there.

[alwaysfallingof]

Thanks guys...knew you'd have the answers:)

Don't know why I'd always assumed that F4F was more of a specific hoof supplement than a general thing...glad that it's not though.

Will see if I can find some magnesium from somewhere.

Gingeremmie - his feet are noticeably stronger since being on the F4F, and are growing faster. It makes his coat nice and shiny too:) Shame about the laminitis, but I think that would have happened F4F or not.:o

[artemis]

You cane get magnesium from a firm called maneline. I just get mine from the supermarket.

I also feed formula4feet.

[puzzles]

i'm just adding that magnesium and the f4f will not necessarily give your horsre the balanced diet he needs.
for this, i would ask a qualified nutritionist, as adding a vit and min supplement would probably give your horse too much, but then too little is not preferable either.
definately ask a nutritionist (google them and ask via thwe net if you can, they're lovely and willing to help).

good luck

xx

[Bebe]

The ideal way to get a balanced diet is to have a hay & pasture analysis done and then have a supplement made up to balance the levels found in those. This isn't always a practical option and can be expensive.

I personally would steer clear of the TopSpec balancers for a known laminitic, I've now heard too many cases of horses having raised digital pulses and footsore episodes whilst on it that have improved when it's been removed from the diet. I'd play it safe and use their powdered TopSpec.Com supplement as this doesn't seem to pose the same risks and has the same vit & mineral spec as the balancers, just minus the calories, starch and protein. Another option may be Baileys Lo-Cal, it's got a slightly lower specification than TS balancers but gets good results.

Failing that Dodson and Horrell products are a good option and have a high specification (not as high as TopSpec but still better than most competitors). Feedmark Benevit Advanced isn't too bad either.

[artemis]

Beware of advice from food manufacturers. They want to sell their product. I have been given advice before that if followed would have made my horse very ill. Make sure that anyone you get advice from is independent & then check it again.

[Skye94]

HI there i believe NAF have the best supplements and their 5* range is scienctiffically and vetinary approved... so for ** lami prone pony id try Laminaze... its got all the right nutrients and minerals he needs to keep him healthy... http://www.naf-uk.com/laminaze/
Or if you just want a general purpose supplement try NAF General Purpose Supplement which contains everything a horse should get.. http://www.naf-uk.com/downloads/gensupplement.pdf
hope this helps :D

[alwaysfallingof]

Ok... now I'm really confused:o
Urgh, does anyone know if there's a list of the RDAs for a horse's trace elements? I'm getting a feeling I'm going to have to start from scratch.

Or...just carry on feeding some F4F and bung in some Mg.

Or...find a nutritionist (agree with you artemis about finding an independent one - been stung by that one before)

Or...just give another general supplement on top.

Or...cut out the F4F, feed a general vit and mineral supplement and extra magnesium.

Hmmmm....:confused:

[puzzles]

i agree - uif anything, consult a freelance (independant) nutritionist, who will advice you on the most suitable products for your horse rather than what best suits their company.

[touchstone]

You've got to think about what you wanting to achieve from your supplement - F4F is already balanced, so adding additional vits and mins would be potentially harmful and a waste of money. The only thing that I would consider adding is Mag Ox, this is simply excreted if fed in excess and has many benefits.

You could do that with any supplement, so I would say that if you are happy with F4F then stick with that.

Laminaze is primarily a detoxing supplement as far as I'm aware, so I'm not sure whether you would need to feed an additional supplement with that.

I've personally fed Baileys Lo-Cal and Mag ox, but I am changing to a mineral lick and mag ox shortly as I think we often over feed supplements.

[eventerbabe]

you don't need any extra supplementation if you use formula4feet ;) i would consider adding a probiotic to his feed though. they can help ward off attacks and maintain gut health.

[MelanieD]

I've used F4F and it was pretty good, but not any better than using a general vitamin & mineral supplement and adding in a bit of NAF Biotin which works out cheaper. I'm pretty sure F4F is meant to be more of a balancer than just a hoof supplement so you don't need to add a general supplement with it. What is a good thing to add to whatever you are feeding is Magnesium Oxide or Calmag, don't think there are any supplements or balancers that contain enough of it. Yea-sacc is a good probiotic type thing that can help with sensitive guts so might be worth trying.

[Est]

Can anyone recommend a good place to buy CalMag? Is it available to order online?

[CurlyWurlyRach]

i think F4F is balanced already (or thats what everyone tells me, farrier, feed shop people, friends in horse businesses) so addding another general supplement would be abit too much of some things.

Something like mag-ox should go with it though.

[alwaysfallingof]

Ok, that all makes sense. Thank you very much:)

MelanieD, the reason that I specifically feed F4F is that he's very, very picky. He won't touch anything with a probiotic in it (unless it's yoghurt:rolleyes: ), and is very funny about supplements.
It was a toss up between the F4F that he liked, and topspec that he tolerated. In the end, the F4F won because of being specifically formulated for laminitis-prone ponies.
(I'll probably have to syringe MagOx into him:rolleyes: )