More trail riding problems (long)

[Tootsie4U]

Bonfire is 8 years old and had been an arena horse all his life.

Recently, he's started going out on the trail and has been about 8 times now- the longest ride being about 3 hours and most averaging around 1.5 hours. I haven't taken him out because he is quite spooky and a bit too dangerous for me to ride ATM.

On this last ride, I got to go along and observe my horse. From the get go, he was pulling with all his might. He was sort of tucking his nose to his chest and making exagerated strides with his front legs - almost like he was climbing a hill. If the rider gave him the reins, Bonfire would run. A few times Bonfire ran through the bridle. When the rider could, he'd try circling Bonfire or disengaging the HQ to stop the pulling but Bonfire would go right back to pulling no matter how many circles or DHQs were asked for. (Im guessing that the obvious solution is more of these corrections, but many of the trails are in tight quarters). All other horses were walking - there didnt seem to be any outside stimulus for this behavior such as wind or other wound up horses.

Bonfire isnt spooking nor do I think he's 'napping'. He seems to be excited and wants to get to the front. Once he's in front he pulls more and bursts into a canter or run. Then, there's no stopping him.

I have plans to take him out alone, in hand, and work with him this weekend. But Im wondering if this is common and what I should do to fix it under saddle.

For what its worth, his breeder (who used Bonfire's uncle as an endurance horse and also owns his full brother who she used to trail ride on) used to tell me that horses out of Bonfire's line are just hot and will always need a little run in the beginning to tire them out.

Anyway, in a nutshell, what should I do? Is he just not cut out to be a trail horse?

[Grace O'Malley]

Is he worked in the arena for awhile before going out on trail?

If it were me (well, okay, I'd probably bottle out, but theoretically), I'd try to make him as comfortable as possible and create success for him, so success is his expectation. Work in the arena for awhile so he feels relaxed. Then take him for very *short* rides out. Ten minutes maybe. Don't push it. Turn back before he tenses up. It might take a long time, but only gradually push his comfort zone.

[KarinUS]

ETA: never mind...

[julia gulia]

Tootsie? Is the guy who is riding Bonfire able to keep him in the back when out on a trail ride? Or is Bonfire able to get himself in front?

[KateWooten]

hmmmmm ... did you read through the lovely joePony's trials and tribulations where even my 'bombproof' joseph turned into jogging, rearing, pull-you-arms-out, pony from hell in certain company ?

We all do it. We all take them outiside of our comfort zone. They tell us. They tell us quietly. Then they tell us loudly. Then they slap us in the face.

Hopefully at some point we listen.

If the trails are too narrow to o-r-s and get the horse's focus back on the rider ... GET OFF THOSE TRAILS.

If the ride is too big for that horse to relax and go at their pace, at his pace, at whatever pace his rider chooses ... DON'T RIDE HIM ON SUCH BIG RIDES.

If you choose a bigger, stronger rider, temporarily, for your horse, and the horse does not show the immediate improvement in confidence that you hope for ... get that guy off your horse because he IS NOT HELPING. It was worth a try, right ? But if he does not understand what is happening here, then you need to ditch him.

I don't think it's any shame to notice that your horse is being overfaced. I've overfaced all of mine, except joePony, and have had to eat humble pie. They give you a huge tip-off : it's that constant edgy, nervous, not wanting to ride your horse feeling. Listen to it. Guaranteed, you're pushing the boundaries too far, too fast.

[teabiscuit]

T4U, i know i PMed you about my mare who used to take off on the beach, but before her, I had a lovely pony mare who would do exactly what she was told, unless my brother rode her
then she insisted on galloping everywhere' even on the roads, she terrified him.

I'm not suggesting your man is having the same effect on Bon, as he seems to be hot headed by nature from what you say.

if FInn runs off with me, i keep him going as he's a lazy sod at heart and he soon gives up, but if i did that with sandy he'd feed off it and keep going till he had a heart attack i think.

it's complicated.

what are the alternative routes? if any?
its good advice to go somewhere where you can ORS, but if you have no option, then you have no other choice than to stop taking Bon out, which would be a shame.

there must be a way, we need to bash our heads together!

i read a book where a man had to leg yeild his horse from side to side of the road to get him to behave- have you space to leg yeild from side to side?

[sheryl]

Is your horse having a non-heating diet?

[Mehitabel]

i think he is progressing far, far too fast. he is set in his ways, he's had years of school work, never been ridden outside, and in only 8 times he is out for 3 hours? it's an awful lot faster than i'd take a green horse - he may have the years, but he doesn't have the mileage, so as far as this is concerned he is a real baby. this is a very new and inherently exciting thing he is doing; a lot of horses get excited out on trails at first even if they are introduced to it at the beginning of their education, and anything new introduced after seveal years can be an issue, for any horse. once they have a fixed idea of 'this is how the world works' - bon thinks riding is done inside and that is that - they can have their minds blown when you overturn those expectations. it is an awful lot to expect of him to cope with this much input into his brain at once.

if it were me, i'd be doing 20 minute rides, circular routes so there isn't a turning for home moment, and in walk only to start with. only when that was fine, in walk on a loose rein would i start trotting (and only away from home to start with) and cantering, and workign up to an hour. i woudln't be out for 2-3 hours until a good few months into the education and working up to it gradually.

[lisae]

It does seem like a lot, fast! Here's something that came up on another site:

I found this post on my Haflinger forum. Interesting about the idea of the mild tranquilizer – I wonder if Bonfire is more excited than scared? He would a great timed endurance competitor! Here’s the post…. I’ve deleted any info that would make this specific to anyone.

“Do you hunt with your horse? No brakes is a real problem if you are hunting because people with you think you are not in control of your horse or that you don't know the "rules." I once had the same problem with a little mare who was 14 and I had to sort out the bit issue. She had been a low ported Kinberwicke with a curb chain and that was completely wrong! She could grab onto it and run like the dickens. I got her a three ring
Waterford, which she could not grab on to and to which I could attach two
reins and get much more leverage. Pessoa made this bit and may still. You
might really have to search for it on the web.

I also did round pen work, leg yielding, etc. to get her listening to me, as
well, but she just loved to hunt and came alive out in the field. I
still spent a lot of time just holding on for the ride. I learned she was
very trustworthy. I always started her in the back of second flight and
gave her a little "martini" (i.e. 0.5 ml of acepromazine) Lisae adds this -

{Although Acepromazine has several actions that might be useful, it is mostly used as a tranquilizer. Strong anti-nauseal properties make this medication an excellent choice for traveling pets prone to both anxiety and motion sickness. Acepromazine also can stabilize the rhythm of the heart in certain situations. This is especially helpful for highly sensitive patients who gets so frightened they can actually suffer a "heart attack" from fear. Acepromazine not only allays the fear through tranquilization but helps keeps the heart rhythm stable.}
Back to the post -
and then just let her wear herself out and she would be better after about 1/2 hour.

Even if you don't hunt, you might try to change your bit and do basic ground
and flat work to get her listening to you. But if your pony is already 15
and *that* keen, well, hold on for the ride![/FONT]

So anyways, not all that is appropo to your situation. I think like the other posters that a few steps backwards will help him, he's come a long way by starting to go out on the trails, but he might be reassured to be returning to his barn after 20 minutes. Or start with some ring work, a short trail ride, and return for cool down in the arena.

Let us know how it goes!

[Tootsie4U]

Its been a few days and I've been thinking alot about things. About what you've said here and exactly what Im doing with Bonfire. I resisted posting immediately because I wanted to absorb all of this and truly think.

I also attended a two day natural horsemanship seminar this weekend. It was a good refresher - I picked up a handful of things - but most importantly it reminded me of one very important fact.

I can't put my goals in front of my principles.

Karin, I got a chance to read what you said before you deleted it. There was a line in what you wrote that pretty much summed up what is my resolution after all that thinking. I was treating Bonfire like what I thought he was supposed to be. As a result, I put a large amount of pressure on him and detered from the big picture - the picture tailored to the horse and human relationship. There are alot of details in there that Im leaving out for the sake of time and your attention while reading this :D But the bottom line is:

I cant put my goals in front of my principles.

After all that thinking I also believe that alot of Bonfire's bolting can also be blamed on rider error. I knew this guy couldnt offer much more than miles for Bonfire - I did not expect finesse - but his lack of knowledge likely attributed to Bonfire running off. I believe Bonfire was running away from him - not running away *with* him. Bonfire got no relief from the constant rein pressure and pressure to perform so he just exploded. I said before, when he ran, there didnt seem to be any fear involved - just a burst of energy.

So its time for Mom to get on board and do her job. I know my horse, I know what he needs, I just need to step up to the plate and do it. I just can't let my goals get in front of my principles again.

Thanks for reminding me.

As a newly reborn Tootsie (again), I got on Bonfire tonight with a new agenda. It was truly one of the best rides ever. I believe he felt the same. I swear there was even a second where I saw him say "ah, there you are mom, where've you been?"



Im sorry Bonfire.

[Montana]

Oh Tootsie, don't beat yourself up over this. At least you have the clarity of mind to reach this conclusion and to do something about it. How many people take forever to make a decision, then still can't amit they've made a mistake?:rolleyes: You tried something new after taking advice and thinking it over, it didn't work, so you're moving on to something else.

I didn't get to read Karin's post, but I'm guilty of treating Monty like what I thought he was supposed to be at several periods over the past 6 years. It's easy to do when you have a horse who still struggles daily with being ok with the stuff that other people's 3 and 4 year olds can cope with no problem. It gets frustrating, I know...:rolleyes: But the idea of not letting your goals overtake your principles is great, that'll help you stay firmly on track, even if you make these little deviations from time to time. We're only human.

But I firmly believe these horses have the most to give. How much have you learnt from Bonfire over the years? How much of a better horse woman are you?:) I bet the answer is a lot. And he'll keep you learning all of his life.

Such a great post to read by the way:) Glad your ride went well, and long may it continue.

ETA - Forgot to say. Mark Rashid always tells people to ride the horse that shows up today. It's a good thought for me. It doesn't matter what they have learnt in the past, what we think they should know how to do because they've done it before, or what other people are doing with their horses. We need to ride the horse that shows up on the day, whether that means working on something entirely different to what we had planned. I'll go into clinics sometimes and do lateral and canter work; other times we need to work on him not losing his mind as horses pass the gate. And both are fine with me :)

[teabiscuit]

they're not mistakes if you learn from 'em i've come to realise, these pickles help you figure out what to do next, i think, and have proved pretty invaluable to me along the way.

tbh it equally could have gone really well, so i certainly would have given it a go in your shoes.

[Tootsie4U]

Forgot to say. Mark Rashid always tells people to ride the horse that shows up today. It's a good thought for me. It doesn't matter what they have learnt in the past, what we think they should know how to do because they've done it before, or what other people are doing with their horses. We need to ride the horse that shows up on the day, whether that means working on something entirely different to what we had planned.

Im glad you edited that in because its brilliant!

I'll never ever learn more from a horse than Bonfire is teaching me. The sensitivity in him is sometimes more than I can cope with but Im glad its there because it gives him his voice to speak up when I need a reminder.

TB, thank goodness horses forgive, eh? I've had my fair share of pickles with this horse yet he still enjoys me.

[teabiscuit]

TB, thank goodness horses forgive, eh? I've had my fair share of pickles with this horse yet he still enjoys me.

i've gone all goose bumps now...
that's why they're so magical :D

honestly i wouldn't dare post the pickles i've got into in the past :D but damn it all, that's where i learn the most.