Dressage-like bits with brakes too?

[Santi]

Does this bit exist? I want to be able to hack out AND ask the horse to work into a contact as well.

We use a french link in a school for lessons but i am using a pelham for hacking and schooling in a field at home as we need brakes but the pelham isn't ideal - he is ok in walk and trot but backs off it in canter, he puts his head down and into his chest. I try to ask him to canter on a loose rein but obviously this isn't really doing our schooling any favours. I use 2 reins and an elastic curb. I only use the curb rein if he gets silly and strong.

He used to do dressage in Holland but hasn't done any for a couple of years and i am re-schooling him (he's only 9) so he understands all the aids (he is much better trained than me!)

I've been reading so many bitting threads and websites i'm getting confused!

I was thinking of trying ...

a kimblewick no slots - a milder pelham?
a hanging cheek - might have enough poll pressure to help with brakes?

what do you think? I was wondering if a jointed pelham would work but i've read its very harsh which i don't want, but i suppose i want to able to ride in a snaffle-like bit and have an extra something for stopping. I am really hoping you don't all say 'try a double' as i am not sure about jumping in it!!
Maybe i should have got a smaller horse! i'm 5'6" and he's 16.3 but i feel fine on him.

I tried an english hackamore last week - his canter was better, steering a bit woolly as expected and brakes were ok-ish.

any info appeciated!
:)

[lachlanandmarcu]

I think whether the bit is harsh depends on the horse and the rider- I read that about jointed pelham too so was really wary but my chap goes far far happier - not just more controlled but happier- with a jointed pelham than he ever did in a straigth bar/mullen mouth one.

I think its cos its more like his single jointed snaffle he wears normally (pelham = for showing or XC comps). Esp as in sponsored rides I use snaffle rein and knot the pelham one so it just hangs there unless needed - we both know its there!

so I would judge by how s/he likes it!

NB not sure whether dressage legal tho.....my IDxTB not really into dressage as his legs get confused :D

[Mossy]

No pelham or single bit with a curb is dressage legal. Sorry.

[iloveshearer]

The hanging cheek snaffle is good for a bit more control! See if you can borrow one from somewhere to try it out because it may or may not suit your horse, but i've always had good experiences with them. :)

[SJ wanabe]

I use the hanging cheek snaffel as it helps with breaks because it has leverage and it is dressage legal even with a novice rider on this bit should not get too severe:)

[puzzles]

you could always have a separate bit for hacking

[Styric]

A baucher/hanging cheek does NOT give poll pressure.

It is a common misconception, all it does is stabilize and suspend the bit in the horse's mouth.

[jowyles]

Yep I agree a hanging cheek has no leverage whatsoever, you should just use 2 seperate bits.

[puzzles]

it has more leverage than an eggbutt for example, but leverage and poll pressure are different concepts.
bauchers/hanging cheeks, because they suspend the bit and 'hang', do use a degree of poll pressure but nothing like a pelham/dutch gag, for example.

[Styric]

None whatsoever. They 'hang' with the same pressure as any other bit, the bars just keep it from moving side to side in the horse's mouth. To create poll pressure, the bit would have to rotate around the mouthpiece and pull the cheekpieces down. When it rotates, the entire bit rotates including the part on the cheekpiece instead of holding it still enough to move down.

To create poll pressure, it would have to have a piece shaped like the kimberwick where it attatches to the cheekpieces, which is a narrow oblong, not a circle.

[puzzles]

dpo they really have no leverage? anyone know the feeling when you've lived by and believed something for your whole horsey life and then found out that it's, in fact, not true at all? and i heard it from a respected saddler...
:-S

[gypsygold]

Lots of people think it has leverage and also because most horsey catologues also say it has.

If you think about it or better still watch one being used there is nowhere near enough movement at the top of the bit (where the cheek piece attaches) to create any poll pressure. This part tends to move back and forth a little but not in a direction to create any poll pressure.

[Stella2]

Styric - I always believed that the boucher produced some degree of poll pressure, but you seem to know this bit well. I'm always interested to learn more about the action of diffeent bits, could you say why some horses seem to go better in this bit than, say, a loose ring?

[Styric]

Styric - I always believed that the boucher produced some degree of poll pressure, but you seem to know this bit well. I'm always interested to learn more about the action of diffeent bits, could you say why some horses seem to go better in this bit than, say, a loose ring?

Long path of finding a good bit for my horse, which is still ongoing. You wouldn't believe the research I've put into various different bits.. and I am by no means CLOSE to being done. There are crazy amounts of them out there! I am not one of the 'snaffle is everything' brigade as well, I'm of the opinion if the horse likes it, goes well in it and it's used properly; go for it. Be it a pelham, dutch gag, waterford, myler or mikmar..

As an example, my horse does not like bits that move around. Loose rings have play in them and he is very pointed about not particularily liking them (gob open). He was better with an eggbutt, but still not perfect. Baucher/full cheek with keys/kimberwick and he was happy. I also wanted to try a rockin S snaffle as that seems to be the perfect bit to try him on, but I don't quite have the money to spend yet to buy it. I will in the future, don't worry! I like to try them, and am getting a nice bit collection.

Funny thing is he's the same about it when you attatch the lunge line with a clip on it to his bit. He just doesn't seem to like anything that rattles or moves about on the cheek pieces, slides through his mouth overly or twists against his cheeks

[gypsygold]

I'm with styric on this one, that the bit tends to be very still in the mouth.

I have read (though have not really thought it through yet) that it also tends to act a bit more on the bars of the mouth rather than the corners as the bit doesnt lift so easily when pressure is applied to the reins. I'm not totally convinced so will have to watch it in action again.

I am also planning to try a hanging cheek. My boy was in a french link loose ring (lozenge style) when I got him and always seems to faff with it, also because he was nappy at that time he would spin and I was worried about the bit rings going though the mouth as they were small. I changed to the full cheek revolver (jeffries) bit so I could keep a similar mouthpiece, have no risk of loosing it in his mouth and see how he liked a more fixed feel :D . He is so much happier in this. Now I have gone off the bit a bit :D because it is the revolver style if you jump on and off a lot and bring reins over etc this bit (being a revolver) completey spins about its centre and is also a pain when he decides he wants to headrub on me :rolleyes: not that I allow it:o . Therefore I am wanting a 'still' bit, but with some cheek for the occassional spinny round times:rolleyes:. Also he's quite green and it will help with direction control when needed:D . I would stick with the lozenge or perhaps try the JP style as the curved mouthpiece will lessen the nutcracker action similar to the double link.


Thats probably all very irrelevant but it just got longer and longer .........sorry.