staying on the saddle w/o the feeling of falling

[laura silva]

I'm a beginner and I have a Friesian/Tenn Wlkr, 3 years old and has just received 6 months of training, alot of trail ride exposure. I ride him on a dressage saddle, but, when he trots or stops, i always feel i'm going to fall off, i can't seem to get the feeling of just staying on the saddle. When he stops, i go foreward and when he trots i just feel i'm gonna fall off. i just want to ride him and feel and look like i'm not ready to fall. i have taken private lessons, but trainers here in the USA seem to hurry things up and not really concern themselves with what you are trying to tell them. i rode him fine on the trails at her place, this weekend was the first time i took him on a trail ride at my house and he ignored everything i wanted to do. wouldn't stop, turn, nothing i did worked! but, once again, at her place, i looked good on him, yeah there were times we would loose each other, but he'd listen to my cues. and i constantly have the feeling i'm gonna fall of the saddle and when i grip the horse with my legs, i loose the stirrup, seems i can't do anything right. owning my own horse was a dream i had since i was a little girl, now at 32 i can't be happier, well, i could, i can build up my confidence on the horse, i just don't know how. i've only fallen off of him once, he spooked, i went one way he went the other, but i got back on him!

[This message has been edited by laura silva (edited 20 April 1999).]

[This message has been edited by laura silva (edited 20 April 1999).]

[~alison~*]

Hello!
I would suggest riding w/out stirrups to strengthen your leg muscles. But your horse might just know that your instructor will make him do whatever, and he just isn't used to you yet. Do you feel like you are in control of him when you ride by yourself? If not, ask your instructor 'bout it. Good Luck!!!!!

~alison~*

[Sarah]

hello!

Sorry to hear about your troubles. If you shorten your stirrips by a couple of holes, that should mean that you keep on to them while having your leg round your horse. If you look at the postings by Heather, she says that you shouldn't be gripping the horse, just wrapping your legs round it - if you grip onto the horse with your legs, you actually push yourself out of the saddle and unbalance yourself.

Would it be possible to have your trainer come to your house to teach you? Then you can show her the problems that you are having.

Good luck!

[Farm_Girl5]

What I suggest is that you ride with your legs out of the stirrups and this will help you when you use your stirrups that it gives you more control. Also put your legs in the stirrups but get someone to lead your horse round while you have your arms out in the air. Try rising in the walk and it strengthens your legs and you have to put all your trust in your horse. It's a great exercise and gets your horse and you to trust eachother and you more confident. Tell us how you get on.
Hope to here from ya soon
Kristy

[laura silva]

what a warm feeling to see how many people actually care. THANK YOU! Alison, no, when i ride him, i feel i have no control over him. at my trainers place, i was able to control him better, at home on the trail or even in my backyard, he would not listen. I have my stirrups pretty short, but i will make them shorter and ride without them too! I was trying some of the other suggestions, on other subjects. I tried the stool excersise, i guess i have to build my confidence before anything. I will start on trying out all the suggestions i get, eventually i'll get something right. once again, thank you all for your input!

[Heather]

Are you riding Western or English? If you are riding English, I would definately reccommend that you stay in rising trot, not sitting trot, either with or without stirrups. At three his back is not developed nearly enough for the rider to be doing work in sitting trot.

Really, a three year old should not be doing much work anyway. Here in England, we would mostly back a horse at three, that is start him under saddle, and then turn him away until four.

At three, he is not fully developed and strong enough to carry a rider easily. All sorts of damage can be caused to a young horse's back and joints by riding him too early. As you are a novice rider, I am very surprised that your trainer did not reccommend an older established schoolmaster.

Young horses quickly develop habits, which if not corrected by an experienced rider, can become dangerous behaviour. Whoever sold you the horse deserves a good kick up the backside for having sold you a horse which is less than suitable. It makes me so angry that people take advantage of inexperienced riders. It is not your fault in any way Laura, but do try to get some help from a really experienced person before you get into trouble.

Heather

[laura silva]

Heather, thanks for the advice! I will go easy on him! No doubt about that, last thing I want to do is ruin him. I will stick to the basics, so he doesn't pick up bad habits. The one thing that is really hard to find in California, is a good trainer. Seems that all they want is your money, when you go to the classes, they are either cut short, or the trainer doesn't seem to pay attention to you or just too many distractions. Do you think I caused any damage to him. He just turned 3 and he was in training since last November. I asked her not to rush him and take it easy, of course, what I don't see I don't know! Is there anything I can do to see if there is any damage? Thank you

[Heather]

Hi Laura,
It is early to tell if there is likely to be any damage. It usually doesn't show up until later in life. Occasionally you will get obvious signs of strain, which will show as pain or actual lameness.

Do be honest, riding a horse at two is sheer cruelty. It is like asking a small human child to do hard labour before their bones are set and ligaments fully strengthened. I don't want to make you feel bad about this, as it is lack of experience and knowledge on your part. If your trainer has saide that it is alright to start your youngster at two, you, as a novice are hardly likely to question his or her expertise.

However, if you read any book on traing the young horse, it will tell you to wait until it is at least three years old, preferably three and a half, before starting any work under saddle, and then just very light work to accustom the hrose to the saddle and rider. It is then normal to leave the horse again until it is four, before starting schooling, and until five, before any prolonged or really hard work is introduced.
I have been a horse trainer and teacher of riding for thirty years, and would never, ever advise any pupil of mine to ride a horse as young as yours.

My advice would be, that if you want a horse to last you more than a few years without developing unsoundness or behavioural vices, turn him away again at least until the beginning of next year. I know that seems like hard advice to swallow, but it really is the only way. Let the baby grow up.


Heather

[laura silva]

Heather, when you say accustom the horse to the rider, what do you mean? Would riding him once or twice a week, say for less than an hour at a time be too much. I feel like a monster, the vet told me he was ready, the trainer said he was ready, a friend experienced with horses (so I thought) said he was ready. I was a bit skeptical, I did read in the books to wait till he was 3 to 3 1/2 but, everyone kept telling me that if I didn't start him now, since he was so big, he would be harder to handle later. I wish we had more people like you here, to give us not so knowledgable people the right advice. I really hope I didn't cause any damage! Thank you

[Heather]

Hi Laura,

How big is your horse? If he is very big, and you are very light, you are less likely to do him harm. I am very surprised that the vet had advocated backing him. I would agree that with a very big strong youngster, it can do little harm to back them at three, that is to lunge, or longe as you say in the States, long rein them etc, and finally get on and ride very lightly in walk and trot, just to get them to accept the fact that they are going to be expected to carry a rider.

In germany, for instance, all the young sporthorses are backed and ridden at three, the stallions even do a test of 100 days, comprising dressage, showjumping and cross country. However, vets always advise if buying at the sales over there, to turn the horse away for six to nine months to rest and mature. The vet at a famous German state auction said to me last year that he personally thought that the young horses were ridden too young, and that he did not like the practise at all.

If you are riding your horse very lightly, at all, it is probably better to ride him three times a week for half an hour, rather than two periods of an hour. The shorter time would cause him less strain.

Don't forget that there are lots of things that you can do with him other than riding him. Get him used to all sorts of funny looking objects, vehicles and traffic, loading into a trailer or box, if you have access to a round pen, do some join-up type work. Try to learn as much as you can yourself, by reading, watching videos and any other means.

You haven't said whether you ride English or Western yet, Laura, can you let me know, and also your horse's size. I am writing some more pages for New Rider which will help you to learn about staying on. Keep a look out for them, as they will help you.You are obviously a caring rider. I just wish that someone had given you sensible advice in the first place. Can you email the exact problems that you are having difficulty with, both with your own riding, and with the horse, and I will try to help out with whatever I can.

Heather

[Heather]

Sorry Laura, I now have re read your original post and see that you must be riding English, as you are on a dressage saddle!

Heather

[laura silva]

Hi Heather,

Once again, Thank you, for your help! My horse is 15.2hh, he's big boned, due to the cross of friesian/Tennessee Walker. Yes, your right, I'm trying to ride english :) hard though! Now, when I ride, I'm ok at a slow walk, conscious about putting my heals down, but I will admit, I would call myself a lazy rider, because as soon as I go down on my heels, few moments later I need correction. When he trots, i just can't keep a decent hold on him, the reins the stirrups, I feel like I'm flopping all over the place! When he stops, whoa!, I feel like I'm being thrown forward. I post and I can get the rhythim right and then all of the sudden my legs start coming out of the stirrups. When I ride I wear riding pants with knee patches, I've been thinking of buying a full seat pair, maybe that would help? I also, bought riding boots, they are not leather, but they are if you are familiar with Cottage craft, rubber boots, looks like the real thing! I didn't want to spend so much money on something I was going to ruin. I'm about 5'2 and weigh about 135, compact you would say, short legs! I want so bad to ride correctly, but I want to be able to stay on any horse without going all over the place. As for working with him getting him use to odd looking objects, I do that alot, I like to introduce stuff to him to see his reaction and then see how long it takes him trust the object, makes me feel good, because, I think he trusts me so much, he doesn't take too long to make nothing of the objects. Are there any excersises you recommend for riding? I will definately keep and eye out for your new pages. The light riding I was referring to is, probably once during the weekend for a short while, last Sunday, was his first trail ride at my house we rode for about 35 minutes, before that he hadn't been ridden since a few days before Easter Sunday. When he was at the trainers house, I paid for full training, but I doubt he was getting ridden more than 3 times a week. Anytime, I got there different hours, never saw him worked, either he was in his stall or turned out. Now, makes me feel better, this way I know he was being ridden everyday and most likely less damamge. One more thing, when I ride him, I don't trot too much, due to the unsteadiness of how I ride, a canter (never) a gallop (by mistake)I mostly walk and very little trot, a minute or two at the longest. Thank you for everything

[Patricia Hodges]

Laura: Heather's advice on the horse is great and she's the expert. But, once you have sorted out the problem of the youth of the horse etc. I would recommend 'Ride with your Mind'(in the States I think the book is published as 'The Natural Rider) by Mary Wanless and in particular her chapter on inner learning. It's brilliant and it will teach you how to use your right brain to 'feel' the horse as you ride him rather than give him and yourself endless instructions. Particularly as you ride him well elsewhere, you will learn how to 'hold on' to these 'kinesthaetic feelings' and once you do that you can apply them everywhere you ride him. Regardless of what anyone thinks about other riding techniques by Mary, the chapters on inner learning in her books (there's also For the Good of the Rider) are brilliant and I would go as far as to say that you practically become your own best teacher thereby doing without outside instruction except very occasionally to give you some feedback.

[Claire B]

Laura,
Maybe you could find a trainer who has studied the Alexander Technique - it has helped my balance and posture no end and I am much more relaxed now, less of an encumberance to my horse. It is great to see and hear people like Heather and Mary, and others of the same gentle approach. We seem lucky in the UK that practically every magazine contains information on kinder riding. I have done several weekend courses with Sally Tottle over here - you come back feeling so good. Maybe you could find some courses to improve your balance etc so when your horse grows up you will be ready for him, he's lucky to have a caring rider - I bought my horse from someone who was rough with him, and it's taken ages to get his trust. The Alexander web site is http://www.alexandertechnique.com/

[Heather]

I have to disagree with a novice trying to read Ride With your Mind. Sorry! It is so complicated, and the last thing that a novice rider needs is to think of umpteen images and analogies! I know many very experienced riders who have tried to read the book and have got through about three chapters and given up!

If you have the sort of brain that responds to images and analogies then fine, but in teaching hundreds of riders in a thirty year career, I have never come across one that did not respond to simple, logical explanation, combined with clear demonstration. This is why I developed my own techniques of teaching
because I found that many teachers were either not teaching at all, just bellowing commands at people, or else making it all so mystical that only they could understand it!

I am not blowing my own trumpet, but I can teach almost any beginner to rise to the trot in perfect balance, and sit to the trot without bouncing, in less than an hour, without any analogies or images!

I do agree with the Alexander technique 100 per cent though. I know Sally Tottle,who has a good book out on the subject, and Joni Bentley, another well known Alexander teacher of riding, is a good friend, whose book is also just out, called Riding Success Without Stress.

I don't know where in the States that you live Laura, but I am a guest lecturer at the Equitana in Kentucky in June, and I will be bringing one of our Equisimulators. If only you could gt there, I would be very happy to give you a lesson!For more info on the Equisimulators, visit my website, address- http://www.piaffe.org/heather_moffett

Also if you email me I will send email you back some articles or sections from my book, that will help you to learn to absorb the horse's movement, which will of course, help you stay on!

Heather

[laura silva]

Once again I thank everyone for their input, different suggestions and ideas. However, Patricia, my trainer would try to get me to ride by imagining different images. My biggest thing is that I need someone that will show me how to do something and then stick with that part of riding until I have it down pack. She used different images to try to make me imagine what the feeling is, but unfortunately, it didn't work. I'm am so impressed Heather with your Equisimulator! I had never heard of such a thing. I would mention to my trainer if I should buy the stirrup pads that tilted up to help me keep my heels down, I thought that was pretty neat when I saw them. Then you mention Equisimultar, and WOW! That would be the ultimate training machine! What I like about Heather is that she stresses the fact that no student is going is rushed. Her system in not only good for the student but the horse. Doesn't rush or skip critical part. I fell off my horse once and I felt rushed, not even 3 minutes after falling off, she had to go, she had promised someone else a trail ride. I was driving 25 miles (i think 55 klm) to take lessons to her house, I would leave work early and from work to her house it was about 70 klm to have lessons cut short, due to her lateness and not being prepared, sometimes I spend more time saddling up my horse that riding. Talking to Heather, she makes you feel, like your not the one at fault, comfortable and unlike other trainers she cares! very rare!!! Once again, I thank all of you for your advice and Heather thank you for listening. Everyone have a great weekend! Safe one too!

[Patricia Hodges]

To Claire B: Could you give me details on Sally Tottle and her riding courses? Thanks!