Control on the ground

[Widget]

Jasmine and I just started Parelli level 1 and its going well. She is calm and pays attention etc.

But how do I control her when she gets over excited out of the school environment. Had major issues last night with her (See my awful evening post in the general forum!) She is good to lead until she is excited, then I cant control her. Our tracks are not wide enough to circle her at a safe distance. I lead in a rope halter and 12' line. She jumps about, crowds me, squashes me into the fence or hedge or whatever. If I hold the rope short she rears and obviously is right on top of me and if I hold it long she tries to turn away, leaning me with her bum. Normally she is very good, but in this situation when in a tiz she will kick out so it is not safe anywhere near her bum!

I must stress this is not a regular occurrance but something that happensif she finds the situation exciting. Its also the reason I have never taken her to a show or anything as I cant control her. She is the same led in a bridle and I dont want to ruin her mouth so I dont lead her in one.

Right now Im nearly ready to give up. She is too much for me. With a more confident person she would be fine but im not confident with any horse let alone a sharp youngster. She scares me when she is like that and I have no control. I just came home and cried.

What can I do to handle her better? To not get squashed, kicked and run over?!

[mayoguinness]

Mayo used to be the same and I used to back him up for about 5mins till he stood calmly, then I'd ask him to walk forwards again and if he pushed or tried to bolt he got backed up (yoyo) till he walked properly but giving him plenty of rope so I could backup without pulling(useless trying to pull a horse back)if needed. Also I would swing the rope in front of his nose, wouldn't hit him but if he walked into it, it was his own fault, same when he used to squash me, I'd swing it round near his shoulder and if he walked into it, it was again hios own fault, thats the only way I could walk him without being knocked over and him bolting. With the rearing I found going round to his hind qauters and yielding (keeping moving withhim) untill he stopped very helpful. Good Luck, I know how hard it can be:)
MG.xx

[suneanarab]

i agree with what mayo says. but you should also get her watching your body more so that when you stop and back she will do the same. it's always difficult in an open space, but you have to find some way of getting her attention back on you.

you also need to stop saying that you are not a confident handler. this maybe how you feel but she can feel that too. even if you only pretend, you have to make her believe you are confident and that she should follow your lead. by taking deep breaths and talking to her in a slow calm voice she should listen to that and start to calm down.

i can give you alot more to do with her if you email me at suneanarab@hotmail.com

suzanne

[KateWooten]

Take a deep breath and put last night's experience in a drawer full of 'I learned from that' experiences.

You know in Parelli, they go on and on about levels, and step-by-step, and building it all up, and not running before you can walk ? ... and that's how they approach horse training ... Well, of course that makes so much sense when you're training the horse ... and when you're training the handler too. Ideally, you never 'have to' do something far outside your comfort zone.

Your last night was a horrible experience nobody here would wish upon anyone. In fact, if you'd said to any of the 'great' horsemen (pick your choice, Ray Hunt, Pat Parelli, Tom Dorrance ... whoever... ) and said, ok can you show me how to lead this little mare past those unruly stallions, through the field of these badly managed geldings, past their insecure fences, and have me feel totally happy as various horses escape and attack my mare ... who I have to lead to a new strange field.... away from her regular herd ..... :eek: Every last one of those great horsemen would have said No. Hell No. Not your fault - you were put in an impossible position.

That's an example of too far out of your comfort zone. It's an example of inadvertently having to run before you can walk. So, chalk it up to experience and focus on here, and now. Don't worry about whether you will ever be able to handle her in difficult situations just yet. Just focus on the two of you working together perfectly, precisely, mindfully, in the ideal situation that you set up for your playground together. And build from there.

At any stage, you can start to take what you're solid on in your playground, out into the outside world. But do it gently. Be solid on exercise A, and working on B ... but take only A out into the more challenging outside world.

Now, about them facilities. The one big huge horror that jumps out at me about the situation you find yourself in ... is not the crappy fencing, ripped rugs etc ... it's the unstable herd situation. Things will calm down when she's in a regular herd, knows who her companions are, knows where she will be spending her time. That's your A1 priority. If you really can't live with the fencing there, you need to move. Barbed wire is a huge source of worry to many people. I have no alternative and I live with it, just fine. BUT - I don't have new horses coming in and out all the time, and when I do have a new horse, I'm right there directing how and when he's introduced to the herd.

If you really don't think you can live with the facilities as they are, then make that your big priority and don't be down on yourself if you don't feel fully in control in those extremely challenging circumstances. Nobody would have been.

When she's settled, and you have a good routine again, you'll find the Parelli tactics and exercises that you learn, are easily applicable to those times when you find her attention is not fully on you as you lead her around .... and you'll just use your parelling to get her focus back - you'll be fine.

[Widget]

Its a yard with around 30 horses so someone is always coming and going. She took a beating while finding a place in the herd last year but has settled well. Have had no trouble with her while in that field. The trouble is there is too much grass. The barb wire alone I could live with although not ideal. It was only when rooting about looking for her muzzle last time she got it off I realised how low the fence is in some places. Barely more than a couple of feet with an 8 foot drop the other side in one place. They flirt with the geldings over the fence and catch their feet in the sheep netting. If I leave her and she gets hurt I will never forgive myself.

After the event I thought I could have yeilded her bum round so she faced me and backed her along the lane if only we had a little more training under our belts.

I can train this out of her cant I? And train the good handling into me? I love that mare and sometimes she scares me to death but I cant give up. I ought to have a sensible middle aged cob I can cope with, but I dont (Well I do but she is out on loan so I can concentrate on Jasmine!:rolleyes: )so I just need to work extra hard right?

In a few sessions of Parelli we have worked wonders but its way too early to cope with THAT!

Thanks so much guys for being constructive and not making me feel stupid :o

[LodgeRopes]

Its 3.30 am here, just finished a long day and decided to see what was happening in the forum,,
almost went passed this thread, so glad I stopped to have a read.

3 great posts, all offering contructive and thoughtful advice, each catering for a different aspect of the one situation.

Widget, there is lot to absorb in these posts, you have done the right thing by seeking to take control of the situation and maintain your personal safety, as mentioned in a post, build on what is working until it is solid. This may change other aspects of the horses behaviour. BUT always take care not to get injured.....

I will watch this thread with much interest

[Tootsie4U]

Have you gotten as far as the circle game?

If so, you can use the 'turn and face me' or 'bring back' or 'disengage the hind quarters' (all the same) trick to instantly get her attention to you (for what may be a half second). (but then at that half second you need to ask her to play another game so she *stays* left brained and forgets about whatever it was that was freaking her out). If she goes right brained again, ask her to snap her hind end around again and go on to another game.

She's just being a horse - no hard feelings.

[mayoguinness]

Just keep going, you in the early stages with it all and I was the same with Mayo. You'll train each other by learning each others habits and knowing what each others bounderies are, the more you do the further you'll get and don't forget the time you spend hanging out together on the field and playing, it is so great for a good relationship as I found out with Mayo, all the best,
MG.xx

[Joyscarer]

The trouble is that when you get frightened you body language for comminucating to your horse tends to go out of the window and your horse is more likely to infringe your personal space. :rolleyes:

Mayo came up with an excellent suggestion of backing up and tootsie had great ideas too if you had the space in that situation and a bit more time under your belt. :)

The one thing you can't do is be perfect all the time, we can all aim for it but it doesn't always happen so we have to live and learn from it.

You are doing the right thing in asking for a plan of action in caes something similar happens again. You get get you plan embedded into your thoughts so that next time it will come more naturally. You can't force these things and confidence and skills will come with time ;)

Parelli is great for instruction and getting the basics down pat but confidence in both you and your horse comes with time so have fun playing the games and going through the programmes and live in the moment :D

[mayoguinness]

and live in the moment :D

Amen to that:D

[Widget]

Took her to the new fenced in area in the mares field tonight. The other horses stayed away and calm which helped a lot. Jasmine was het up as it was windy and raining which she hates and probably still wired from yesterdays carry on. This time I took the carrot stick, held the rope longer and defended my space better. Was a more open space so easier to work in. The steep hill at the top was difficult as it is slippery in the wet so I kind of got dragged up a bit but at least in the right direction! The flatter bit at the bottom was easier. I used the stick to send her away to about half the rope and to stop her over taking. Hopefully she will stay put and settle. Will start her training again at the weekend when she has had time to adjust.

Tootsie, nope not done the circle game yet. Literally just started and I only tackle 1 new game per session if we got the previous one ok. We do LOTS of friendly coz that damn stick WILL bite her she is sure of it! Also done Porcupine, the one where you yeild front and back ends sideways (Cant remember the name) and yo yo. Porcupine and Yo yo fairly good almost from the start and can get her bum away from me. Moving the front is more of a challenge which I suspect is strongly connected to the barging when leading problem as she ends up steering me with her shoulder!:o

[suneanarab]

hi lyn,

i emailed you all the stuff yesterday. did you get them ok? i sometimes have problems with emails getting through.

suzanne

[Widget]

I just saw them today. Thanks ever so much! There is a lot there so will print them off and take them to the yard so I have step by step instructions. Have given her a few days off to settle but tomorrow is my day off so will start training her again tomorrow. I really appreciate the help.:)

[jinglejoys]

I've just started Parelli too with Mad Malaga.I've been through the crying stage especially when I sent him away for backing and he came back thgrowing tantrums and biting and still unbacked (not the trainers fault mules are very one personed animals!)My problem is I'm green and so is he so I suffer from lack of confidence in my own abilities too!
I went to my first Parelli lesson at Bridgenorth the other day and it was such a help.Malaga threw a lovely tantrum at the end when the other equines (All shortears;) )were leaving (and boy can he throw a tantrum!:D )

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/jinglejoys/Iwanttomakeanobjection.jpg

He reared'bucked up and down on the spot and did some lovely spanish riding monouvers that must be in his genes but I was given a "nursemaid" that escorted him back down the track and because the rider was experianced and the horse well trained and calm I was able to carry on moving him foreward and backing him up without worrying about frightening the horse with my rope and carrot stick.It gave me so much confidence.
I'm sure once you get into the games it will boost your confidence too--do you have anyone who knows what they are doing to help or are you struggling alone like I was?
Don't give up you sound as if you are beginning to work through things
(by the way,my little riding Hinny Sarah-lee came from Weston-super-mere:D )