Napping

[Rhein]

Does anyone have any advice on the best way to deal with my horse who has just started napping :confused:

Thanks :)

[CurlyWurlyRach]

i think it depends of the type of napping eg spinning, tanking, walking backwards.

My horse is a 'plant feet, go back/spin, rear' type napper and im still experimenting! So far soft hands and kicking like theres no tomorrow seems to be working exept we shoot forwards like a bullet when she finally deciedes to play nice :rolleyes:

[Rhein]

So far, it's a "plant and attempt to spin" type napping.
I've had her 5 weeks and she has just decided to start this behaviour.
I have taken her out around the fields by herself (with someone on foot), and she was OK, if on her toes.
She has always walked to the manege fine.

Last two evenings she has been planting herself on the way to the school (fine, so she doesn't want to go there :rolleyes: ). I encourage her on with legs, hands, voice (and last night - whip). I win :)

But, when I went to take her for a walk around the field by herself she would only go so far before planting and wanting to spin and race back home. I managed to encourage her on a bit and then turned her round and walked her back a bit before turning agan and carrying on. We managed to go a bit further this time. And so on. I didn't use the whip because she was snorting and very tense. I didn't want it to escalate into anything dangerous, (nor did I want her to bolt off and develop some sort of association or fear). I turned her and brought her back whilst she was still wlaking forward (i.e when I wanted to, not when she wanted to).
She also started going backwards when I was encouraging her forward, hence why I tried to keep her walking by turning her each time.

I plan to take her out tonight and do the same thing with the aim of getting her to do what she is told and to see that there is nothing to fear (if she is feeling at all anxious).

I want to nip this in the bud before it gets worse.

So any advice/experiences would be very welcome :)

[SO1]

Depends on how much time you have!

I have found the stick it out till the horse gets so bored and realises the easiest option is to move forward, slight battle of the wills but usually works.

What you do is ask for forward movement if there is no response wait a bit, then ask again, ect ect eventually they get fed up and move. If they try and spin round let them as long you end up facing forwards again. I warn you it make take hours but you only need to do it once or twice and they realise that the quickest route to home is to comply and go forward. Just make sure there are no ditches or anything dangerous behind you as some horses do start backing up.

[Darcys-girl]

I know how you feel – when I took Mr D on loan he was a pain to hack – almost dangerous – rearing and backing up (he even took out a bridleway sign with his backing up cut his leg in the process:eek: :o ). It is possible to sort the problem out just takes time.
Try to remain calm (easier said that done I know!) – talk to her, turn her in small circles every time she stops (alternative reins helps for increasing flexability!!). Keep everything nice and slow, only walk for first few goes until she gets the hang of things, then try a little trot. Hack out after you have schooled if possible – treat is as a walk out as a chill out after work kind of thing.
I have come to the conclusion napping is lack of confidence more than the horse being a pain, stick with it and she will be ok. You might get some worning of a nap is about to happen, D starts making strange noises and throwing his head all over the place, I start talking lots when he does this behaviour and he sorts his head out and we are back to normal in a few strides.

[EnduranceAli]

Frayne was terrible for the first few months - even when walked out inhand. With her it is a lack of confidence. If she is not sure about something, which can include just going away from the yard, then she would just stop. If pushed, she would toss her head/go backwards. It just took a lot of patience. I would lead her out inhand, and then mount and attempt to go a bit further each time. Now she is 100% better, and if she does get a bit 'sticky' then a firm voice command/slap on neck with reins will get her going forward. Good luck :)

Ali xx

ps Now Frayne loves hacking so much, it takes a few minutes to get her to stand still for mounting :D

[KateWooten]

Agreed with Darcys-girl - it's a sign of underconfidence. She's not sure she's safe, and she's not sufficiently confident in your leadership. You have yet to convince her that you are the greatest, strongest, smartest mare in the world and that you can fight off all the lions, and lead her only into safe places. She's just looking out for the two of you - just being a horse.

So, how to tackle it ? Well, you need to understand and embrace it first. The solution is not a piece of tack, or a special technique ... and it needn't be a long drawn out process either. You have to convince her, every way you can, that you are a great leader. You do this, by constantly requesting movement from her, and by her constantly finding that if she does what you ask, she stays safe !

But it starts on the ground. When you start a young horse, the first thing you ned from them is a spirit of 'try'. You don't want to be dealing all the time with a horse saying 'No, make me'. Well, your spirit of try is beginning to fail at this point. Her willingness to comply to your requests is being overruled by her instinct for self preservation. Any attempt by you to force her at this point will only cover up this problem, and it will pop back up later, in new and stressful situations.

Whenever you come across this with a young horse, you step back in your training a couple of steps. Go back to where you were solid. You do this because as a trainer, you're listening to your horse, and recognising what he's saying which is 'I am too far out of my comfort zone, too fast - take me somewhere safe'.

And it's exactly the same for a horse who is not a youngster, but who is dealing with a massive change in his life. For example, if without any notice at all, he finds himself in a new place, with new horse companions, and a new people companion who he has no idea if he cna trust or not.

so, go back to where you are comfortable -- or WAY beyond it. Nobody ever did any harm by going back too far ! Take her to a safe area, and do groundwork. forward, backward, left and right. Establish some exercises you can always do - lateral flexing, yielding hindquarters ... circling (although that's not so useful cos it doesn't translate into a good ridden strategy). get on and ride her in the school - but with a plan - to practice these safe exercises til they are automatic. pick up a rein and bend to a halt. Pick up a rein and trot a very bendy circle. Trot around softly changing direction every two steps. Practice that disengage from every pace til it's your best friend.

Then take her out away from the barn. But stop and turn back before you get to this stage. And back at the barn, where she feels safe... practice your bendy circles again - what fun. And calmly walk away from the barn again. Make the barn (or the safe area) the place where the hard work gets done, and always walk away calmly, and rest, standing still, one leg resting, in the new area.

Don't ride too far from the barn. Keep pushing the envelope - but just a little bit. If she starts to get uncomfortable 10 feet from the barn ... well, then there's your start point 5 ft from the barn !! Out and back, out and back. Don't be crossing that line of her comfort zone. Don't always be pushing at it. Stay inside it and build up trust. She doesn't know who you are yet.

[Rhein]

Thanks Kate. I always enjoy reading your advice :) .

I agree that it is a lack of confidence. She is a very genuine (and smart) little mare. We are still getting to know each other. The napping on the way to the manege is definately her being stubborn (and not wanting to go and work :rolleyes: - hence my strong insistance that she continues), but not when I asked her to go out around the field by herself. It felt different. She felt quite different, if that makes any sense. So I didn't push her...so I thought...

However, what I did do was push her just that little bit out of her comfort zone and then take her back. What you're telling me to do is not to push her out of her comfort zone at all, but to keep within 5' of it (for example) :confused: .

She has hacked out with another horse fine. And she has walked round the field with me riding and OH walking - hesitantly, but she has done it.

I thought I might do the same again tonight. Walk her round with OH walking :confused: What do you think?

I have been doing lots of schooling with her; circles, bending (she is flexing beautifully on both reins) and walking small circles etc.
But Kate; I'm still not sure how to disengage the hind quarters and do a one rein stop :confused: :o . I'll go and search for that great thread of yours and read it again.

I've reread your post and the bit about "and always walk away calmly, and rest, standing still, one leg resting, in the new area" has made me smile. When we walk away from the barn by ourselves, we tend to come to a somewhat more tense stop with lots of heavy breathing :D .

I will try listening to her more closely tonight and see just where we get to whilst still remaining in a more relaxed mode.

But I can't help feeling that if I push her just a little bit out of her comfort zone and praise her, and nothing terrible happens to her, that this is what will reinforce her confidence in me as a lion tackling leader. If I always keep her within her comfort zone, how will we get anywhere:confused:

[KateWooten]

It felt different. She felt quite different

Now there, you see - you can't go wrong :)

Because you've got the feel for it, you'll be fine.

The only conflict between your hunch and mine is this ... start with mine :D Build the confidence initially by showing her that you listen, take her feelings into account ........ but as you progress, then push the boundaries (gently) so that you know you're making progress. Get her trust initially, though. I think I probably do over 95% building the relationship, and less than 5% testing of it.

I find, that when I overstep the comfort zone too far, I have to scurry back a little, and spend some time not pushing the boundaries at all, so that I can regain that lost trust. Then, once we've re-established that "walk calmly away, and then stop, nonchalantly" .. once we've got back to that stage, that's our signal to say, ok now we can move on to pushing that boundary back again.

That boundary will move back, you know, even if you don't push it.. You should just just find that the point 'just before she panics' naturally gets to further and further from the barn ... because every day you're with her, you're reaffirming that contract 'you comply with my requests, and in return I'll keep you safe'.

[Kezza 1978]

I agree with Kate. Take things slowly and build confidence in each other. My horse happed when I first got him and he still does it sometimes now, mainly at shows. I drop my reins so he has nothing to fight against but still make him keep moving. It doesnt matter which way you move so long as you dont let her stand still. Also getting off is not losing (which i thought it was). You can get off and walk her for a bit and then get off. Also try getting on and off at different points. Good luck

[domane]

Great advice from Kate. I would also add that if she is starts to get nervous and tense, don't stroke her and pat her in a reassuring way - horses don't understand the concepts of ways of human reassurance and she will just feel she is getting praised for acting up and will then think it's the right thing to do. Better to work as Kate said, and then pat and praise her after she has calmed down again.

[Rhein]

The only conflict between your hunch and mine is this ... start with mine :D

You're so subtle Kate:rolleyes:

I drop my reins so he has nothing to fight against but still make him keep moving. It doesnt matter which way you move so long as you dont let her stand still. Also getting off is not losing (which i thought it was). You can get off and walk her for a bit and then get off. Also try getting on and off at different points. Good luck

My concern about dropping the reins is that I think she will spin and charge off.
My natural instinct is to do as you suggest and keep her moving; not let her stand still.
I can't mount from the ground :o , so getting off wouldn't be a problem, but I might have to remain on the ground :rolleyes:

Great advice from Kate. I would also add that if she is starts to get nervous and tense, don't stroke her and pat her in a reassuring way - horses don't understand the concepts of ways of human reassurance and she will just feel she is getting praised for acting up and will then think it's the right thing to do. Better to work as Kate said, and then pat and praise her after she has calmed down again.

That's an interesting point - it's very easy to go down the route of stroking their neck to calm them. But, how can you be sure it doesn't help soothe them? Almost all mammals can be soothed by a stroking motion........... Hmmm ??

Anyway, armed with all your helpful hints and good advice I went down tonight (having not ridden for 3 days) in a vey positive frame of mind.
But she napped (planted) on the way to the school :(, and just would not go forward. In the end I led her in (OH was riding)................
Then when we'd finished, as soon as I opened the gate she raced out and would not listen to her rider. He turned her and she wouldn't go toward the school at all. Again, I led her in........................ OH did a few small circles, bends, halts, and got her to walk past the open gate a few times before walking her slowly out. On the way back to the yard, I suggested he might just want to circle her to make sure she's still listening. And she refused to turn around and just planted herself........................

I feel like I'm going backwards with her all of a sudden :(
What to do?

What would you do in this situation Kate?

[neen]

Hi Rhein

I know how frustrating this is to deal with -- it used to drive me nuts. We went through a phase of napping everywhere, and I mean *everywhere* -- on the way out of the field, on the way back to the field -- he learned he could just stop and he did it all the time. I started doing all the "moving the feet" stuff every time he did it -- making him move his bum round in a tight circle. We went in circles everywhere for a while :rolleyes: . I don't know if that's what fixed it in the end, to be honest -- he may well just have got bored with the whole thing -- but now he leads like a lamb (if lambs do, in fact, lead well...), and he hasn't stopped in ages. It did take a while, but we got through it. So don't give up hope.

Ridden, he still "thinks" nap from time to time, but again, it's a while since he actually planted. One way I found of getting him to walk forward positively on an inhand hack was to load my pocket up with treats and let him know they were there. He didn't want to risk being separated from the treats, oh no -- he would have followed me to the end of the world that day!

One thing that stood out from your post --

On the way back to the yard, I suggested he might just want to circle her to make sure she's still listening.

So many times I would try to push it just that little bit further, and we'd end up in a nap as a result -- in the end I learned to look for a good moment to quit, and once I'd found it, not to push it. There's something so tempting about that "one last try" -- but for me, that tended to be where it would unravel.

Nothing really concrete to offer in terms of advice, really -- just encouragement that you will come out of the other end eventually!

[Rhein]

Thanks for the reply neen.

I think I'm feeling discouraged because she didn't used to do this.

I've been thinking.... and regarding the napping outside the manege; I guess I can get off and lead her in. Maybe in time she'll just figure it's easier to walk in straight off. Or am I going to then end up with her napping in hand?

Where will it stop :eek: . Maybe in time I wont even be able to get her out of the field and she'll have to stay in there for ever :eek: (which I think secretly is what the little minx wants ;) ).

Sorry, too many glasses of red wine this evening........................:o

Seriously, I do wonder where it will stop at the moment. I've never had a nappy horse before. And what's worse is that she wasn't nappy for the first 5 weeks. I feel like she is getting the upper hand and taking control. I don't know why, or where I am going wrong :(..................................... (see, self pity now - definately too many glasses of wine :o )

It's encouraging to hear that you have managed to get beyond the napping. I guess we'll just have to go round in lots of circles for a while :p

How long did it take before you saw an improvement?

[KateWooten]

Sorry, I was just trying to be friendly. The question I thought you were asking at the time was about whether you could gain ground even if you remain within the comfort zone. And my answer was ... start by staying within the comfort zone, push the boundaries later ... hence the 'start with mine' comment.

Sorry.

[thoroughlybred1]

apologies if this has been answered already - i've merely scanned through, but how old is this horse?

[thoroughlybred1]

also, in addition to how old the horse is, and you have had it 5 weeks, is this new behaviour just to you? or was the napping established with the previous owner?

[Laura+Phantom]

Kate definately knows her stuff :D but I wonder if in this instance, the mare is taking a dislike to any form of work, and is napping as an evasion? The fact that she didn't used to do it, and she does it both out hacking, and in the school, tells me something.

Phantom used to nap for england and i'm not quite sure what made him better, apart from a 6 week break from ridden work! (due to me having had an operation).I think he realised life was rather boring, and when we started hacking out again, a strong leg was all that was needed.

If he has a major nap, especially in a place he has passed 3000 times, I just keep my leg on and keep squeezing, soft reins, don't let him turn, and keep on at him until he moves forward. He does it whilst being led sometimes as well so i just move his feet, anywhere. Sideways, backwards, I just 'un-stick' his feet so he's moving again, and i'm back in control.

It all depends on the horse of course, but could she be evading work? Is she bored at all?

[KateWooten]

Laura - you're right of course - she certainly could be averse to working... lazy, bored ? Who knows ? But I find the answer to be the same regardless.

First establish a start point - on the ground, in a safe area ... something you can build on.

Next establish a set of safe exercises - the ones you can always do, can always enforce no matter what the situation, and preferably ones that transfer to under saddle.

Now at this point, it gets a bit tricky for UK riders, because there's no way to enforce forward movement. If the horse wants to plant his feet and simply refuse to move forward ... what can you do ? So, my safe exercises, the ones I'll always return to, will always be bendy lateral moves. Yielding the hindquarters, flexing the head and neck, trotting round in tiny tiny circles with lots of bend and changes of direction. Without having those established, I would very rapidly run out of tools to use in a situation like this.

However, if you have those safe exercises sorted, then the solution simply falls into your lap. Horse decides he doesn't want to walk nicely forward ? Fine, woo hoo, put those feet to work til he's begging to be allowed to walk gently forward. Horse is spooky, tense ? Fine, woo hoo, put those feet to work til he's begging to be allowed to walk gently forward past the thing he's spooking at.

It works on so many levels. It takes the scared horse back to a safe place, even if he's miles from home. It gets his focus off the scary thing, or off the thing he's trying to avoid, and back onto his rider. It reassures the horse that the rider is in control and is confident, not scared, so telling the horse there's nothing to be scared of ... and that the rider is still the one who decides if the horse should run or not. Also, it works on the rider ! It takes the rider back to a safe place even if the're miles from home. It distracts the rider from being scared and gives her something to focus on, stops her tensing up, gets her breathing again, lowers the frustration levels .... and all those things are good, whether the horse is scared, or bullying ... whether he's genuinely out of his depth or simply vying for power within the relationship.

[Rhein]

Sorry, I was just trying to be friendly. The question I thought you were asking at the time was about whether you could gain ground even if you remain within the comfort zone. And my answer was ... start by staying within the comfort zone, push the boundaries later ... hence the 'start with mine' comment.

Sorry.

Oooh no, I was just saying it with a wry smile, and trying to be friendly too :o Of course you don't really know me or how much I respect what you say - so you didn't take it in the way it was intended - with respect and humour. I should apologise, not you:o . I appreciate what you were saying. And I really do want your views on this.
Ruddy internet communications..........................:rolleyes:

apologies if this has been answered already - i've merely scanned through, but how old is this horse?
13

also, in addition to how old the horse is, and you have had it 5 weeks, is this new behaviour just to you? or was the napping established with the previous owner?
I was told "she has been a little nappy when hacking out on her own in the past - but is fine if you are firm and push her on". I actually hacked her out alone at her previous home, and she was fine (if a little keen to get home:rolleyes: ).

Kate definately knows her stuff :D but I wonder if in this instance, the mare is taking a dislike to any form of work, and is napping as an evasion? The fact that she didn't used to do it, and she does it both out hacking, and in the school, tells me something.

It all depends on the horse of course, but could she be evading work? Is she bored at all?

Certainly in the case of napping to the school I feel she is evading work. She clearly doesn't want to do it, for whatever reason. Once there, I can get her to work well. Yes she could well be bored with it. She wasn't really ever schooled before, just a happy hacker. Which makes it all the more puzzling to me that when I say "OK then lets go for a hack and do something interesting", that she didn't want to do that either..................

First establish a start point - on the ground, in a safe area ... something you can build on..


What do you mean? Can you give me an example, as I'm not sure I fully understand?

Now at this point, it gets a bit tricky for UK riders, because there's no way to enforce forward movement. If the horse wants to plant his feet and simply refuse to move forward ... what can you do ? So, my safe exercises, the ones I'll always return to, will always be bendy lateral moves. Yielding the hindquarters, flexing the head and neck, trotting round in tiny tiny circles with lots of bend and changes of direction. Without having those established, I would very rapidly run out of tools to use in a situation like this.

Why is it tricky for UK riders to enforce forward movement?
OK, I get the idea with the exercises, and I can try that. We have started off with her very slowly and carefully and have been doing lots of bending and flexion and small circles under saddle before we moved on to other things.

However, if you have those safe exercises sorted, then the solution simply falls into your lap. Horse decides he doesn't want to walk nicely forward ? Fine, woo hoo, put those feet to work til he's begging to be allowed to walk gently forward. Horse is spooky, tense ? Fine, woo hoo, put those feet to work til he's begging to be allowed to walk gently forward past the thing he's spooking at.

Just out of interest, on a practical basis, how long do you think I could be circling and flexing for before she walks forward?
If I try this tonight, should I persevere with the circles, feet moving etc until I get her in the school, or should I quit at some point before that?

What do you think of getting off and leading her into the school?

So many questions :)

[KateWooten]

First establish a start point

FOr me this is in the round pen, a safe area with no obstacles ... where I can get to grips with the groundwork, that's all. Once you've got it started there, then you take it out of that safe area, but stick with the same exercises - moving the feet forward backward left and right... still from the ground though. What this gives you is an alternative to forward movement, that you can call upon at any time. You're going to try to make your suggestion (walk forward nicely) look like a real good deal, so you want some exercises to use, that you can make really really energetic.

Why is it tricky for UK riders to enforce forward movement?

:D No, it's not easy for any riders to enforce forward movement. But when you say lateral movement in the UK you sometimes reach a sticking point because it's seen as very 'advanced'. Much easier to get the idea across in the US because in the western training, the horse is asked to step over from day 1. He is in the UK too - everyone moves their horses's butt over when they're grooming him ... but it's rarely taken any further than that.

The reason the lateral movements work so well is becuase the horse can't evade them. You're using balance to work for you. If you and the horse simply had a pulling contest he'd win .. but if you're pulling him off balance, you stand a much better chance. With his head flexed around, and your heel asking him to step over, he will pretty much have to do that. And if you ask him for long enough with enough vigour and constant changing directions, after a while he's going to get so darn sick of it, he's going to want to walk on.

Just out of interest, on a practical basis, how long do you think I could be circling and flexing for before she walks forward?

As long as it takes. Unfortunately. I've spent 2 hours before on a hack with Summer, and the whole ride was 200 yards.

If I try this tonight, should I persevere with the circles, feet moving etc until I get her in the school, or should I quit at some point before that?
Good question. Keep a close eye on her response, and quit when she gives you a real good try. It might be all the way to the arena, it might be two steps from the barn. If you reward her too early in the process you'll have done no harm because you can go straight back to it tomorrow, If you reward too late, you'll be reinforcing the problem. But the main thing is, only quit when she's shown you a positive effort in the right direction, and try to quit instantly when she does that. I've been known to do a flying dismount before the horse even came to a halt when his try was really good.

Now, here's a question in return ... when she does walk on quietly forward, after a bit of a struggle, towards the arena ... what's her normal reward ?

[grace-t1]

well how wat 2 say........ napping is 1 of them things that every horse is differnt when it cums 2 tryin 2 get it outa them. if a horse is rearing it is a sign of fear of the on nowen. if they r just takin hold of the bit and runnin away with u this is just themm beinb a checcky we **** and tryin there luck 2 get outa sumfin they dont reali wana do.
if a horse is nappin away from u turin in2 a jump say then u should work on workin the horse rund the jump n use alota leg n get the horse used 2 workin of ** leg. do differnt things with ** horse so he/she dosent no wat is cumin nxt and they done get board.
it is a hard 1 as it depends on the rider n the horse n wat ** willin 2 do sum horses i acve worked with r just pure tryin there luck n they do need a bit of a hidin but others just need schoooled n worked with 2get them outa the habit.

[KateWooten]

Yep, what she said. Couldn't have put it better myself :)

[Laura+Phantom]

Please write in full english Grace, i'm by no means old but that is really had to understand (the text speak) Thank you :)

[Darcys-girl]

What about trying lots of rein backs - went to a Monty Roberts demo last year he recomended practicing lots of backing up in the school. He was saying about the rider being in charge of all the gears to reduce napping.

The napping on the way to the school is just taking the pee ... naughty ned!

Kate I wish I had your advice 2 years ago - would have saved so much stress, muddled a long and found what worked for Darcy - I back up what you say about circles and leg yielding do work well for Darcy - we always do 15 min of lateral work, small circles and backing up when schooling has helped lots, give you so much more control when out at least then I can get him moving again if he goes in to full nap or nuclear as my instructor says!!

[Rhein]

OK Kate, I think I get where you're coming from.

Will report back on how we get on tonight :)


Now, here's a question in return ... when she does walk on quietly forward, after a bit of a struggle, towards the arena ... what's her normal reward ?

Normal reward for being obedient and working well (or trying hard to do what is asked) is a "goooood girrrrrlll" (or whatever :o ), a pat on the neck and giving her a long rein to stretch out on.
On the ground, she gets the first two and usually a treat once we have finished whatever we are doing before heading back to untack.

If I was lunging or schooling in the manege, I would often let her have her cooling off period on a short hack/walk around the yard as she really seemed to relish the experience after what I think to her is the tedium of the school.

The napping on the way to the school is just taking the pee ... naughty ned!

Yep I rather think she is - I'm learning that she's a smart cookie :)

[Laura+Phantom]

Yep, the smart ones are the most trouble! :D

[Rhein]

Well I cannot really fault her behaviour tonight. She did everything I asked of her :) .

She went toward and into the manege fine. I did sense some reluctance beneath me, but as I was driving this time (rather than OH), we continued in a forwards direction! (I think I am somewhat more assertive with her:o )!

So, I think I can sort her out on that score :D .
It's just the napping when riding out alone that I think needs addressing, since I do believe that she is showing a lack of confidence rather than being naughty. I will put your advice and suggestions into practice.

Hopefully we'll get there eventually.

[KateWooten]

Just a quick thought - I know you've mentioned beofre having someone on the ground with you, and that sometimes helps ... there's a problem with that. It muddies the water for the horse as to who is in control here - who is the leader .. is it you, is it the guy on the ground, is it the horse ? In general, it's better to do a smaller safer ride on your own, than push for a bigger more scary place with groundcrew. The groundcrew thing tends to kind of cover up the problem - better to work on it progressively it in a safe area (IMHO !!).

Anyway, great to hear that she was fun today :) There's your start point fixed then :D Push those boundaries ever so slowly ....

[Rhein]

Just a quick thought - I know you've mentioned beofre having someone on the ground with you, and that sometimes helps ... there's a problem with that. It muddies the water for the horse as to who is in control here - who is the leader .. is it you, is it the guy on the ground, is it the horse ? In general, it's better to do a smaller safer ride on your own, than push for a bigger more scary place with groundcrew. The groundcrew thing tends to kind of cover up the problem - better to work on it progressively it in a safe area (IMHO !!).

Interesting you should say that Kate, as tonight when we were making our way to the manege I told OH to "go away" (:rolleyes: ), as I wanted just her and I to do it by ourselves.

However, in the case of what I see as her recent insecurity and lack of confidence to hack out alone, surely having someone walking alongside or nearby would help to give her confidence?

I was planning on trying to take her for a short quiet walk around the fields with another friend on horseback tomorrow evening.

What's the difference between doing that and having someone walking alongside? In both cases the horse is gaining confidence and security from having another "being" with her (IMEMHO!!:D )

[neen]

I think "groundcrew" can be really useful when you're hacking out -- if they don't go with you all the way. So in our napping spell, we would set off with a companion, get past the tricky gate area -- then overtake and trot away up the road. Then you can do all sorts of variations -- going away from the groundcrew, coming back towards the groundcrew and continuing back past them, turning back towards them and past again... and if it all gets too much you can always get them to run to catch up. Well, you can try, anyway ;)

I honestly don't know how long it took for things to get better, in answer to your earlier question, Rhein. I know I never tolerated napping when ridden in the school (I was quite brave in there :rolleyes: ) and so he only tried it once or twice. It was only when I saw your thread that I remembered he used to stop when led, too, and realised he hasn't done that for ages.

[Rhein]

Thanks for that neen. I was thinking of using my "groundcrew" (OH :D ) in much that sort of way.

Hacked out with a friend (on horseback) last night and she was fine :) .

[Becky&TheTribe]

Does anyone have any advice on the best way to deal with my horse who has just started napping :confused:

Thanks :)

i have a 15.2 h/w cob who napps. He spins, bolts and sets his chunky neck! I've been told by many trainers that you have to be cruel to be kind. The easiest way for me, and that ive been told, is to ragg there teeth out! (i no it sounds bad but it really works) You can sense there eyes flicker, so use stronger leg and keep your reins short. If they catch you out and they spin and bolt, ragg there teeth out, alternate reins, until they stop, then spin them round the SAME way they spinned. Or if they napp in the menage, hold a whip up the side of there face (the side which they napp on) and everytime they try it on, give the whip a flick. it doesnt make them head shy. I use both these techniques and they do work. Try them, then if to no avail does it work, then call someone in.

[MrDCBags]

i have a 15.2 h/w cob who napps. He spins, bolts and sets his chunky neck! I've been told by many trainers that you have to be cruel to be kind.

how sad

eta please go back and read katewooten's replies if you have time- there is an alternative if longer way of dealing with a problem which will truly build a lifelong positive relationship with your equines.

[puzzles]

by all means get off and lead rather than getting in to a battle - it is very reassuring and gets yoiu into the 'leader' mode for your horse. it is not submissing or giving in, as many people think.

[Bay Mare]

I've been told by many trainers that you have to be cruel to be kind. The easiest way for me, and that ive been told, is to ragg there teeth out! (i no it sounds bad but it really works)

Or if they napp in the menage, hold a whip up the side of there face (the side which they napp on) and everytime they try it on, give the whip a flick. it doesnt make them head shy. I use both these techniques and they do work.


It might be the easiest way but it's not the best by any means. In fact it's down right cruel to put not too finer point on it. Flick any horse on the face and they WILL become headshy. 'Ragging' their teeth out isn't an option either if you want your horse to trust and respect you.

Personally I'd fire any trainer who told me that and if that's how you are being advised to train your horses it's probably a factor in your issues with Jigsaw.


Echo MrDCBags - Kate Wooten talks a lot of sense.

[tabithakat64]

i have a 15.2 h/w cob who napps. He spins, bolts and sets his chunky neck! I've been told by many trainers that you have to be cruel to be kind. The easiest way for me, and that ive been told, is to ragg there teeth out! (i no it sounds bad but it really works) You can sense there eyes flicker, so use stronger leg and keep your reins short. If they catch you out and they spin and bolt, ragg there teeth out, alternate reins, until they stop, then spin them round the SAME way they spinned. Or if they napp in the menage, hold a whip up the side of there face (the side which they napp on) and everytime they try it on, give the whip a flick. it doesnt make them head shy. I use both these techniques and they do work. Try them, then if to no avail does it work, then call someone in.

OMG being cruel is the right way to describe the methods you mention in your post, is it any wonder you are having issues with your horse, the poor animal much be scared to death. How can you possibly feel able to comment that other people are mistreating their horses?!

[Rhein]

i have a 15.2 h/w cob who napps. He spins, bolts and sets his chunky neck! I've been told by many trainers that you have to be cruel to be kind. The easiest way for me, and that ive been told, is to ragg there teeth out! (i no it sounds bad but it really works) You can sense there eyes flicker, so use stronger leg and keep your reins short. If they catch you out and they spin and bolt, ragg there teeth out, alternate reins, until they stop, then spin them round the SAME way they spinned. Or if they napp in the menage, hold a whip up the side of there face (the side which they napp on) and everytime they try it on, give the whip a flick. it doesnt make them head shy. I use both these techniques and they do work. Try them, then if to no avail does it work, then call someone in.

This post makes me sad :(

Anyway, as way of a quick update, thought I'd let you all know that my lovely girl is now hacking out alone with my OH :). I didn't use either of the methods suggested by Becky&The Tribe though. Just time and patience.
I have been told that she has never hacked out happily alone before (she is 14), so I am delighted we have got this far in just 6 short months. She is an absolute star, and I am very proud of both of them :)

[KateWooten]

Gosh, this is a blast from the past isn't it ! Well, however it's got resurrected it's good to hear that time and patience won the day there, Rhein. I'm a bit suprised though .. I think if you'd have tried 'ragging her teeth out' maybe you'd have got there quicker and had a much stronger bond with your horse, doncha think ? :rolleyes:

[Back2Black]

No amount of leg or whip encouragement gets mine to move when she is napping (she goes in reverse then trys to spin) best method to get her to go forward is to sit quietly give her a 'strong half halt' which she doesn't like then softly asking her to go forward again...