Planning Permission for Outdoor Schools

[tasha]

We currently have a track in our field, fenced off with electric fencing, as a school. We have been offered a load of sand from a friend's school, as she is having half the sand taken out and rubber put in.

Do we need planning permission to put the sand down on our track? A neighbour seems to think we do, and has already "told us off" because it looks like we already have put sand on the school where the rain has separated the sand and soil on the track.

We ae also thinking about having it levelled, as it is on a very slight slope-only noticeable whe riding on it! What permissions do you need to be able to do this?

Thanks!

[cvb]

I am no expert, but I think some of this relates to change of use (from simple grazing).

And I think the other factor is how permanent it is.

Given the hassle if you get it wrong, wouldn't be worth having a quiet word and at least checking it out ?

[Lgd]

Check with your local planning department as to the requirements for your area as it does vary depending on the local council bye-laws. They are pretty weird and inconsistent to say the least. The owner of our yard did not need permission for our outdoor surface or an open sided hay-barn. Yet for a covered arena of the same proportions as the hay barn he does need permission despite it being in less visible position - this is because they class the haybarn as agricultural use and the indoor as commercial use. Go figure!

[judyl]

I see you're in Hampshire. Yes, you'd better checking with the Planning Dept. as someone put in an arena without permission and they're now having to plough it all up. This is in Hampshire. This also was getting it done professionally so spending big money. It's always better to check before you go to the trouble or expense of having something done. It also sounds like you're going to have trouble with that neighbour. If you do need permission, you're going to have at least one objector!

Judy

[Wally]

Blessings on every planning department in the UK, may they all suffer an early transmission failure on the M25 at rush hour!!

Recommendations...regulations and interpretations, give them enough red tape and with any luck they will hang themselves with it!!;) ;) :D

[SJ]

I'll second that Wally, I'm sick of them, this is my story

We've just been granted planning consent for a 20x40 arena, in Sussex, it took 8 weeks, cost £90 and I completed the application myself, it wasn't difficult, so far so good but.. There are very strict controls on equestrian development around us (probably similar to Hampshire.) Our consent has been granted with two restrictions:

1. We don't run any sort of equestrian business, as the access isn't suitable - I can live with this but it's mad as they have just granted us B1 use on the barns to run my husband's business which they know will have clients coming and going using the same access! (I received a follow-up letter from the planning policing dept. drawing my attention to this restriction saying they will check up!)

2. More stupidly, that it is solely for use by horses owned by the applicants - ha! Of course, my kids friends will hack over and borrow it, the pony club might use it for the odd rally, I also have a couple of friends who keep their horses with us, to keep the grass down. Are they going to police this?

Despite thinking we get on well with our neighbours we think one may have thrown a spanner in at a parish planning meeting. She came round to see us just after the application went in and rather snottily asked me what this 'big sand pit' was and it was only for our ponies use wasn't it. She won't even be able to see the arena when it's installed!

My advice is tread carefully, get the neighbours on your side - we thought we had. People do seem sneak on each other in the country just for fun/boredom, I'm a little worried this neighbour might have a hot line to the planners!

Good Luck

[judyl]

SJ - tell me about it! That's exactly what happened to us when we applied for planning for 2 stables, tack room, haybarn (all one building) and a 40 x 20 arena. We checked with all our neighbours who all assured us they had no problem with it. 3 days before the planning meeting, one neighbour admitted his wife had a concern about all the noise but she was too busy for us to sort it out with her. Our planning was refused and when we got all the paperwork back, they had written the most AWFUL letter complaining about our application. Even stating that they had never heard of it before and we had never spoken to them about it. We went to appeal on this and it cost us an arm and a leg but our surveyors (experts in the field) said the council had got it wrong - they'd refused our planning on it 'possibly setting a precedent.' Of course when the Appeals Officer came out to do a site visit (we had suggested this but the planning committee didn't see the need for a visit - even though our neighbour said it was directly in their sight and extremely near their house - NOT!) he could see for himself and the fact that our neighbour plus one other (who was VEHEMENTLY, VIOLENTLY, OUTRAGEOUSLY OPPOSED to this planning and was prepared to fight this up to the High Court if necessary) had employed their own surveyor (it cost them upwards of about £2,000) was prepared to lie in their report and he could see for himself what rubbish this was. Anyhow, to cut a long story short we got our planning permission and now have our 2 horses at home (it was also going around that we were going to run a riding school and have about 10 horses there (we've only got 3.5 acres) and neither of us have any BHS or ABRS qualifications. We only have 2 cobs which we hack out and do occasional low level competitions on.

We've had lots of arguments and bad feeling with our neighbour and if they can do anything to upset us or cause trouble, they will. And I also think they seem to have a hotline to the Planning people. We added to our fence and in 3 days had the enforcement officer out. They changed their gate and put up a fence and still, 8 months later, the enforcement officer hasn't gone round even though I've rang at least 10 times asking why.
It makes you wonder if anything underhand is going on.

Life's too short to worry though and we the horses at home and have a lovely sand/rubber arena which is brilliant to work on.

Judy

[skye]

Can anyone tell me if wood chips would make a suitable ground covering for a laminitic pony.I was going to build him a pen and use rubber crumb as a ground covering but the quote was unbelievable ao i now looking at other options!

[Murphs]

....more so than the council. it tookme 6 mths to get planning for 3 stables and a tack room - i only have 3 acres and 2 horses but objections were raised that i wasgoing to be running a commercial stable! 18 mths after the stable went up (been up just over 2 yrs now) i had a phone call from the council saying they'd had complaints about my stables - i was polluting the rhyne (drainage channels that run across the moors), which i'm not - i was running a commercial stable (i had a friends horse here as a companion to mine - it wasn't ridden) - i was using my lane to access the field (runs alongside my neighbour sadly and they expected menot to use it ! as it is i don't use it for my horsebox just deliveries/farrier etc. they thinkit's okfor themto use it though to park in-even though it belongs to me! ) - that i'd killed my newly planted hedging by putting horse manure on it (um:rolleyes: ). Council were great and felt it was trivial but explained they had to respond toany complaint. To make matters worse - one of the complaints has 2 horses in the fields adjacent to mine!!!!

Anyway, i'm one step ahead on the arena -on my original plans i put in a 20x 40m paddock and as i want to put woodchip down(non permanent on top of a membrane), i've contacted the council and asked if i need to get additional planning permission. They have confirmed i do not as long as i keep it in accordance with the approved plans (actually it will be smaller). I feel happier having that piece of paper as i know the council will be contacted as soon as my surface goes down!

I agree with Judyl - life is too short to have to worry about petty smallminded individuals who just don't like to see people getting on, regardless of the fact that it doesn't affect them in anyway shape or form.

[judyl]

How sad that this is happening right across the country! My only worry now is whether we'll have a visit about our muck heap. Our first one is behind the stables where it was on lower ground. Now we've started another one and probably will have it removed 2 or 3 times a year. It's not in view of our neighbour but they have just got planning permission to build a huge extension and then those windows will look over our stables - including the muck heap! Oh dear.

Judy

[SJ]

Does anyone know if someone comes to check up when you've finally built the arena? (unless of course someone complains!) You have up to 5 years to start building and as building control/district surveyor are not involved I'm rather hoping not.

Btw if anyone is thinking of applying for permission, we were advised to use the words "exercise arena" rather than "sand school" apparently the word "school" panics the planners!

Don't start me on the subject of muck heap disposal, we have neighbours all along one side of our fields and a large stream bordering the other with all the ditches running across into the stream. So almost impossible not to pollute stream or neighbours so we've plonked it in the middle, no smell or pollution but sadly not out of sight!

SJ

[Murphs]

i don't think they come and check up, unless like you say someone complains - it's not like building regs where you have a certificate on completion. what i did when my stables were erected, i confirmed in writing to the council that things had been completed in accordance with the planning conditions (ie. lighting, landscaping).

i agree about not mentioning the word school/arena/manege - i used "turnout paddock" to keep it slightly vague - i'm sure they know what you really mean though!

[tasha]

Well, my yardowner rang up someone and found out that although we do not need planning permission, we need a change of use thingy. I imagine she'll turn a blind eye to that though...

Our neighbours are a pain the arse! All nice and friendly, and then as soon as we leave the muckheap a bit longer before having it removed they are on our case. One neighbour reckons she can smeel it 300 yards away, over a hill behind some 20ft conifers up at her house. Seeing as we cant smell it 20 yrds across the field at the stables......