Can anyone explain...

[Bronya]

The difference between an English (running) gag and a Dutch gag, for the horse, in terms of "ooh maybe I won't buck 'cause it might hurt"? We started with the English, which has now done its job. We still have occasions where she thinks about bucking and decides against it, but she no longer bucks.

The Dutch gag obviously has a lever effect rather than just pulling the bit up in the mouth on a cord, and I know that the lower the rings the more leverage you get. Is it milder than the English gag, or just different? Is it easier to use with two reins (with the English, unless I fit it high in her mouth, with two reins I have to slip the snaffle rein if she goes to buck in order to use the gag rein)?

Interestingly, I have less effective brakes in the English gag than in a pelham/snaffle, but it cures the bucking (about which I'm far more worried)!

[connieD]

which bit is stronger would depend on what mouth piece you were using with them.

both bits work on the poll and lips and dependant on the mouth piece different areas in the mouth.

the main difference is with how the leverage action is applied. with the english gag there is some delay with the action as the cord or leather moves up/down through the bit to apply the pole pressure.

in the dutch (continental gag) the action is immediate as the 2nd rein applys direct pressure to the bit casing the ring to rotate and the pole pressure to be appied instantaniously.

so in my opinion if you are using the english gag and have made an improvement, changing to a dutch gag with a sharper (or rather quicker) action would not be necessary.

both bits are intended to lift the horse off the forehand and raise the head, and are often for this reason used for strong horses or jumping where the head needs to be raised quickly to gain control fromthe next jump.

if your going to use a continental gag you need to use 2 reins as riding on one rein on one of the lower settings puts constant pressure on the lever action of the bit with no let up for the horse

[Bronya]

Thank you! That was a fantastic explanation and I hadn't thought of the dutch gag being sharper/quicker. We'll stick to the English one then! :)

Little madam did a fantastic display of why we have that bit in front of Poohsmate on Monday, just because I was riding off the snaffle rein in the school!

[connieD]

better to be safe than sorry - i know it can be hard riding horses on box rest - one little chunky pony attempted to unseat kyanya today by cantering full pelt towards a bucket in the school used for mounting.

left, right, left, shall i jump it, no ill slide past to the left. shes in her continental gag for that reason, shes very stong and sets her neck low and goes!!

kyanya obviously has a nice sticky bum!!

[kyanya]

It was a 'OK, now I'm hanging out of the side of the saddle, now I'm hanging off the side of her mouth, now I'm back in the saddle' moment. I felt bad for being so harsh (albeit very briefly) on her mouth, but no eating sand for me today thanks! It was all wet and boggy too, and my jods were clean! :D

She didn't seem to think much of it though - she was quite happy to motorbike around the manege in her best 'you can't stop me, ner-ner' canter afterwards. I got my own back though - she had to get her bum under and work afterwards! I think she'd be a lot of fun out hacking right now :D

[connieD]

which is exactly why i pm'd you about coming for a hack with me:D

and dont worry about pulling her about - she has had no problem in the past with me coming off the side after a rather large (and uncalled for:eek: ) jump and me stupidly hanging on to the reins

she managed to canter along with me skiing along on my ar*e until she found some grass:D ETA and im not light!!

24 years old - cheeky little bu**er - shes just keeping you on your toes;)

[kyanya]

That could be a sport - ski-ing on your bum while being towed by a horse. You'd do well as long as there was some green grass at the end of the track :)