Kicking with heels

[marchhare2006]

I know that bringing my heels up to give a leg aid is wrong and I'm really trying not to do it but I find that my legs aren't strong enough to squeeze when the pony is reluctant to move forward. I have had one instructor say that it's better to squeeze and then use the whip if the horse doesn't listen rather than kick, and another say that you should just use any way to get the horse moving, including kicking, even though she admits it's not ideal. The thing is, I'm trying to get away from using my heels to give aids as it's a bad habit of mine, so in an ideal world, how would you use your legs to get a horse moving if it's a reluctant riding school type?

[~*sugarlump*~]

horses move away from leg, whether that be turning on the forehand or moving foreward or just turning. if you can get away with just a squeeze on the calf nd foot then the better.
i work by the principle squeezen if they dont respong nudge firmly with the heel, if they dont respond to that then a small tap with the whip.
if they don;t respond foreward enough then a little kick with the heels, and then keep the lower leg pressed against the side slightly to maintain a foreawrd pace.

hope that helped abit :)

[CurlyWurlyRach]

i squeeze, then if no response nudge, nudge harder, smack with the crop and only if that gets no response i 'boot', if that didnt work i wouldnt want to be on the horse in the first place!

[BeachRiding]

Yep, I do what Rach does. Except I show my horse the crop before using it. He knows enough is enough and usually moves.

[marchhare2006]

ok, not just me then. I wondered if there was an alternative to kicking when the horse obviously won't move. Made me feel like a complete beginner on Wednesday, but there seemed no alternative but to keep giving BIG kicks, nothing else was working - not even the whip!

[Nazdaq]

Marchhare, sometimes there is no alternative and I understand because it makes me feel mean and hopeless when I have to do it as well....especially if people tell me off for it when there is no other choice! Hope that helps a little. :D

[Bay Mare]

Have you tried hitting the whip on your boot and then praising/rewarding when the horse moves forwards? Horses are quite sensitive to sounds so just doing something like that can make the difference. You have to be careful at first as they could shoot forwards but if they do still reward as they've gone forwards which is what you wanted.

It's worth a try.

[marchhare2006]

Hi BayMare,

That's definitely something else to try, but I don't think it would have worked with the RS horse I was riding this week. The instructor even made me take my hand off the reins and wallop the poor thing with my schooling whip and it still took a good 20 mins of my 30 min lesson before I actually got a decent trot. Incidentally, once I had, she was actually quite easy to get into canter, but my word was she stubborn to start with!!!

[Bay Mare]

It may not have worked but doing something different to kicking/whipping/spurring can sometimes make a big difference. It's not an 'aid' that they're used to so they may respond to it. It doesn't hurt you and doesn't hurt them so is always worth a try :D

20 minutes out of a 30 minute lesson really isn't acceptable. The RS should be doing some reschooling as it's just wasting your time and money.

Good luck :)

[marchhare2006]

Good point. Well, I'll try it next time. Yes, I did feel I was wasting my time and money a bit, but then, it was also my bad riding. I'm sure other people don't have the same trouble with her. She just thought she had the better of me.

[vimto92]

Well I wouldn't use my heels really, I believe that leg aid should be applied from the inner calf, so thats how I try to use it.:) Be very rewarding, if they won't move forwards, then use rein aids too, such as turning there head in the direction you want to go.... or the direction you don't want them to go... if it helps you then try it! At my riding school there aren't any real plodders, but when the horses are having one of those days the use a rule where give leg aid once... if its ignored, again, still no response tap/flick from the whip.:)

[marchhare2006]

But if that doesn't work? And you've whipped poor pony pretty hard a lot and have tried squeezing, nudging and finally kicking, then booting? What do you do?

[horseygirl123]

But if that doesn't work? And you've whipped poor pony pretty hard a lot and have tried squeezing, nudging and finally kicking, then booting? What do you do?

I would be asking the RI why this horse is being used in the school in the first place :rolleyes:

It may have a bad back, poor fitting tack, could be a number of reasons, I'd have thought spending 20 minutes trying to get the poor horse to move isnt really a lesson is it?

In that situation I think I would have asked the RI to get on and show me that the horse WILL move off your leg, then get back on and replicate what she did, just a thought ;)

[vimto92]

But if that doesn't work? And you've whipped poor pony pretty hard a lot and have tried squeezing, nudging and finally kicking, then booting? What do you do?

I have been in this situation and its not nice to be honest. The RI saying how I should kick on, while Im booting this pony; to be honest Im hoping Im never in that position again, I hated it and felt awful for a good while after.

Did your RI not try leading him forwards for a while?

If I were you, I'd leave this riding school, on a pony thats not going to go forwards you aren't going to learn that much, just strengthn your legs.

[MrDCBags]

If I were you, I'd leave this riding school, on a pony thats not going to go forwards you aren't going to learn that much, just strengthn your legs.

The joys of RS ponies :D

They are probably in the top 10% for IQ in the equestrian world!

I think it is unfair to say leave a riding school because ponies are not forward going! We have a fab mixture of forward going **I'll carry you round and make it look like you can really ride** ponies and those that think ***hmmm if I don't have to.. I won't***. They are all of great value to someone learning to ride. It is up to the RI to get the right balance.

Small Boy rode a little wellsh known as Steady Freddy cos he is of the bot boot boot stick variety or so Small Boy thought until Weds when he saw Stready Freddy GO with a girl on him who knew which buttons to press.:D :D

We have a pony on our yard whom the YO says is the ultimate pony. If you can ride him well you can ride anything!!

My own horse is used in the RS and I know he completely takes the p out of some folk, I also know that with me and others he knows what is expected of him and gets on with the job.

[marchhare2006]

yes, I'm sure that's true. That is really what I wanted to find out. What are the right buttons to press? Cos I really wasn't finding them and all my instructor seemed to say was to keep at her.

[MrDCBags]

This is a discussion you need to have with RI or someone else who rides the horse well as they all have their own nuances.

[baybabe]

i sometimes just brush my heels along her sides or squeeze, they can feel a fly land on there coat so i wouldnt go to the extreme of kicking too hard. if necessary i would back up with a whip usually just a couple of times is enough to wake up a horse/pony thats not listening.

[vimto92]

MrDCBags, I didnt mean leave if theyre not "forward going/push button", I was talking about ponies who refuse to move, no matter how many aids you give.

[Method_Acting]

I think it's a lot kinder to the horse to tap it with a whip rather than boot it with your heels:) A lot of riding school horses are unresponsive to a 'squeeze' of your leg...a lot of them are kicked a lot by beginners etc.

[*toHorse&Away*]

There are two in our school that sound exactly like this.
Nudge, squeeze, kick, backup with stick - nothing, even quite hard.
All you get is a buck. RI says she is taking the mick, but its not fun and its not only me who has hese issues. I am sure an experienced rider would do fine, but we are not yet that league and therefore need more willing mounts.
Who want to spend a lesson pummelling a horse?
My best lessons are the ones where dont use the stick at all and only use legs lightly.
I was tempted to ask out RI to get on and show us how its done.

[Afellpony]

I personally wouldn't kick the pony if he doesn't go from just a squeeze. I would use the stick behind my leg. Kicking alters your whole position and it also looks ugly and 'novicey'! Sorry if there are any novices on this site right now.

[~*sugarlump*~]

make sure you have a constant *feel* on the rein. with forward going very soft mouthed ponies this should only be slight, but ive found that if you have a feel with the reins then it kind of contains the energy a little bit. its hard to explain.
but if you have a very slow walk then push forward into a very fast walk you'll find it easier. my RI explains it better than i do :p

[marchhare2006]

Yes, just to be clear - this horse really wasn't listening. I had tried squeezing, then nudging, then I tried a tap with the whip. None of these had any effect. So I tried a few more taps at the same time as harder nudging. All of these I tried before I finally gave up and resorted to good old pony club kicks. My instructor just told me to keep at her and didn't offer any other advice