Sitting Trot, Canter Seat :(

[gidget_love]

I seem to be having problems moving with the horse at sitting trot and canter.
At the walk, i have the correct movement, but at the sitting trot, i seem to bounce WAYYY too much. so much you can see daylight between my bum and the saddle. Ive been getting help on this from many people, and i know one of my problems is i dont sit on my seatbones, but farther forewards, but i am working on it. It seems nobody can help me find the movement, as they all say stuff like, "use your hips as hinges" and "absorb the movement" and "think of your back like jello". All of wich have not helped me. I am also scared to have a "driving" seat, because I know my back can be stiff, and it seems whenever i sit that im always worried about driving, and lighten my seat again.
I am also having trouble finding a way to maintain rein contact when trying to sit, as i end up jabbing their mouths. No matter how much i move my hands forewards, my hands jab. It could be because the horses i ride are heavy on the forehand, so i dont know how to fix this.
any help wuld be great :)

[Nazdaq]

Hi,
well have you ever seen yourself on video riding, as it might not be as bad as you think? With me I feel as if I bounce alot, but actually its not that much (yes there is air between my bottom and the saddle but you cannot see it externally as an observer!) That is the only thing I can think of really that would help, also with the sitting on your seatbones thing, when you do this it feels like you are leaning back, but in fact you are not really. Hope this helps.
:D

[Bay Mare]

Hi

Have a look at the 'Kinder Way' links on the NR homepage. There are also some more articles in the library section on Enlightened Equitation (http://www.enlightenedequitation.com) and if you find those interesting you can still get the old Enlightened Equitation book from Amazon. It is being rehashed and modernised though so there aren't many copies left and Heather is also bringing out a book specifically aimed at beginners.

[Skib]

They say there are two sorts of rider. Seat and leg? The ones who sit in the saddle and do nothing (me) take to sitting trot and canter like a duck to water. But have problems with rising trot and forward seat.

The others (you) only start to find it hard when they are asked to sit down on a moving horse.
There are many schools of thought on sitting comfortably on the horse - I cant tell you what's right for you. I can only offer the way I was taught and what I do so you can try it if you like.
Concentrating on your seat may not involve being more active with your seat or anything else but learning to sit softly, feel what is under you and do nothing at all?
Everything starts in walk, and if possible on the lunge. But if you haven't a way to have a lunge lesson you can do it on your own.
Putting your weight on your seat bones does not (I discovered last week) mean pushing down on them. Just feel each seat bone equally. For the third point of balance there is the base of your spine. Again no pushing down on it. It's only there if needed.
Once you are sitting comfortably we can begin. You say you sit OK in walk. But is this because the horse is going slowly? Or because you have given it a lot of thought? You need to know what is going on in walk, in order to reproduce the same feeling faster in trot.
Ask the horse to walk and you will feel your seat bones dip down, each in turn. You seat dips on the right when the horse takes that right hind leg off the ground and brings it forward under him and rises as the horse pushes off with the hind leg on that same side. Take long slow breathes in and out and count the steps of the horse as you dip, right left, right left, , one two three four. You should feel the horse move loosely and easily under you.
The reason for doing it in walk first is that the alternate dipping movement to right and left, is the same in trot only faster. In trot the beat is one two one two and your seat bones will dip up and down exactly the same as the back legs move. For some people the movement under their seat bones feels like wheels revolving backwards.

But the important thing is that it is a side to side movement, not a simple up and down one that can make you bounce. I was astonished to read that Syd the simulator had no side to side movement, as all my learning to ride a horse has been based on an alternating side to side movement of the horse.

If you are riding a very bouncy horse, you may find it hard to do the breathing and counting in trot and to feel the seat bones dipping. So do it little by little? Like four steps sitting and four rising, then try sitting again and build it up from there.

In canter I do the same breathing and counting, I never learned how to actually DO anything. But an RI on New Rider told me a couple of weeks ago that if one had learned masses of sitting trot on the lunge both with and without stirrups, one was likely to gain a lovely canter.
I had confessed to her my difficulties with random steering in rising trot.

I am not sure if your difficulties with your hands are when you are sitting or when you are rising or both. But if you are bumping on the horse, it is highly likely that you are clinging onto the rein for security. Until you can work out sitting on the horse it is a good idea to anchor your hands by using a neck strap, or a little grab strap across the front of the saddle, or hold the saddle itself.
I find holding the saddle made me bounce? That could be part of what is happening to you? One stiffens ones arms because one has been told to keep them still and stiffening the arms stiffens the whole of one's body. And that makes one bounce. Let your upper arms hang from your shoulders, using gravity. Then hold your hands perpendicular to the ground with the thumbs on top and the weight underneath. For me, the best way to test whether my hands are still in relation to the horse's mouth is to lay them on each side of the neck of the horse.

If you are a beginner, I have to disagree with Bay Mare about the book Enlightened Equitation. In my first two years of riding, I found it way over my head, in both substance and language. I welcome any new book for beginners - but I think we (beginners and non athletes among us) should reserve judgement.

[horse_crazy]

have you tryed doing sitting trot with no stearips? I did this for a wile on the lunge and it really did help my sitting trot. and having a good sitting trot helps alot with canter.

[rhsw]

Skib is correct in alot of things. Can you ask your teacher to teach you sitting trot with no strirrups and no hands, and do hands and arms excise, on a 20m circle? and on a lunge, believe me this will help you to totally relaxe and feel the movement of the horse under your seats, it will make you more secure, now I know you must be thinking 'what no hands' (Unless you have done it?) you will find you will sit better and be more relaxed and so much more secure. Hope this helps, keep up the good work, you will get there

xx

[gidget_love]

i have actually done sitting trot without stirrups and reins, and it seems i can do it fine, but i think what i do is grip with mi thigh and just hold myself in place... and i think using the article on new rider ive made a discovery.. do you move your seatbones(tilt them) when trotting? making your lower back move?

[RustyMary]

Although I agree with skib that Enlightened Equitation is not the best book for beginners - most of it still goes straight past me after a year - I did find her description of how your body moves to absorb the movement of the horse in sitting trot really helpful. You can find it here http://www.newrider.com/Kinder_Way/The_Paces/sitting_trot.html

as well as in the book.

[horseygirl123]

Have you tried rising trot without stirrups?

I know it sounds impossible at first, but when you havent got your stirrups to rely on and push off you soon learn how to rise from your hips and stomache rather than just your legs.

Also when in sitting trot (with or without stippups) make sure you are wrapping your lower leg around the horse, grip with your calf muscles if it helps to start with, so keep heels down and hug your horse with your lower leg, making sure tho that you are not gripping with your knees too.

Also with canter, when you sit, once again wrap your lower leg around to keep you sitting deeper.

It takes time to master sitting trot and canter, the more you do it the more you will relax and the easier it gets ;)

[Tuff_up]

i would say keep on working at trotting with out stirrups and cantering with out stirrups i did it for 2 months every day the only time i used stirrups was the mount the horse. i am used to western riding where we have different contact with the horse (reins are loose) and planned to do western pleasure where you have to make it look like the horse is a pleasure to ride. i still have trouble at the sitting trot (on my green broke horse i just bought) but i have learned that in the siting trot you sit on your pockets or seatbone. this at first over exxagerate it abit and eventually you'll get it but then on the canter you have to go back to riding more on your crouch. again this is my opinion in western.

one thing i think may help aswell is trying to change the horses pace with your own body movement AKA no leg aids but with how the rest of your body moves. E.G. my horse has a very soft mouth i want to keep it that way she also has very soft sides which makes her go quite fast with just a tap of my heel, in all she is very responsive and she responds quickly. This has gotten a bit dangerous for me at times so i have taught her through my seat when i extend my posting trot she extends her movement in a exdended trot if i post faster she trots faster, if i sit and feel slower which by that means my hips are sliding/moving slowly left, right, left, right from buttcheek to buttcheek she goes into a jog/sitting trot and when i want a walk its even slower and to stop i sit low sortta slumped and ask her to stop/whoa. To canter i lean forward just a nudge tap the leg i want to start the lead let the lead line/rein loose and kiss this usually gets her into a collected canter on the right lead and when i want her into a posting trot i start to rise from the saddle at the canter and there our transition back to a posting trot. the only time i use my leg is to turn her our ask her for smaller circle or wider circle or if she is being lazy and needs a little more convincing. I say usually because she is green and has her moments:rolleyes: good luck

[Purple Hugs]

I totally understand how frustrating this is ((hugs)).

I think in honesty though (after my own struggle with sitting trot) that the key is to relax, sit deep and breath properly.. try to forget about it.. concentrate on something else, like riding well into your corner or something..

Same with canter - with the exception of counting 1,2,3 helped me, and watching for my urge to stand up! lol yes.. somewhat suicidal! :p
Again try and concentrate on something else. I found learning to jump vastly improved my canter.. sounds strange i know - but concentrating on getting a good line up and jump stopped me worrying about how fast i was going!

we can only offer what worked for us, but keep up the great work and i'm sure you'll find what works for you! ;)

[vonandiz]

i think what i do is grip with mi thigh and just hold myself in place...

When I started to do sitting trot I was bounce bounce bounce caused by gripping with my thighs. When I stopped doing this - I actively have to think about pushing my upper legs off the horse - I stopped bouncing. It will all come with practice (and at least practicing is great fun:D).

[rhsw]

When I started to do sitting trot I was bounce bounce bounce caused by gripping with my thighs. When I stopped doing this - I actively have to think about pushing my upper legs off the horse - I stopped bouncing. It will all come with practice (and at least practicing is great fun:D).

Yeah worked for me too, I use to grip with my thigns and knee, what i did was as above, but like this, if you put your hands on the outside of your knees and pushed, your knees come together, now with your knees push your hands away, you will find that your lower legs are still relaxed while you are pushing your hands away with your knees, now try it without the hands, and practice this on your horse, good luck with it.:D

[wanabe]

I'm glad to see others say that "Enlightened Equitation" isn't for beginners. It totally confused me when I tried to read it after about a year of riding. Now, after just over 2 years, I retackled it and was able to get thru it, although I think it will require many rereads to really absorb everything that is there.

As for the sitting trot, there HAS to be more to it than just not gripping. I don't grip and yet I still bounce.

[OldandNew]

I'm a complete novice and found "Enlightened Equitation" completely over my head, like others on here. It sounds a bit babyish but "looking at the pictures" was useful though, for correct positions etc. Regarding sitting trot, like I said I'm a novice, but my RI has me practising my transitions between sitting and rising trot - and back again. She always reminds me "long leg" when sitting which stops the gripping and also lowers the centre of gravity. This works really well for me and I feel much more in control - I used to bounce around so much I nearly fell off more than once! As for cantering - well, I haven't got there yet and it's still a scary prospect.:eek: