Troubled by kick :(

[KarinUS]

My new horse has been boarded at my lesson barn for about a week. He is part of a 9 horse herd on 20 acres. I was warned that there would be some bites, etc. during the first few weeks until the hierarchy was established. Today I found out that out of the three marks he has, only one was a bite and two were kicks (one breaking the skin and been sore for a week. a new one since yesterday, just sore).
I was at work this evening, thinking about Dj getting kicked by some jerk of a horse and getting madder and madder...
Was I supposed to expect him getting kicked during the initiation phase? When we talked about it before it sounded more like mostly bites and squabbles.
A kick could seriously hurt him.
How "normal" is this? Should I start shopping around for another barn? Since I am new to horse ownership, I am having some difficulty putting this into perspective.
He seems to love the pasture and the interaction with the other horses. I don't want to take that away from him, but I also don't want him getting hurt.
Would another herd at another place be gentler or would I just put him through more trouble by starting it all over again.
I am so mad! I think that kickey horse should get his hind shoes pulled, but of course it would be impossible to find the culprit...
Please help me put things in perspective so that I can decide what's best for DJ.

[Danae]

Almost all animals have whats called "The Pecking Order".

When a new animal arrives, the older bunch and the new guy are going to settle who is Mr. Alpha, and who's going to follow Mr. (or Ms.) Alpha. If you think about it, would you want someone you have no idea about coming into your territory eating your food, etc.? Ofcourse not.

Now, if you observe, when your introducing horses one on one, they have quit a funny way of reacting. Mares tend to paw, and make this squeaky/whine/neigh noise, although my Mom's gelding does it too. Anyways, they are settling who's who.

The kick marks might go away, then again, your horse might end up being the low man on the totem pole and get beat up frequently. If this is the case, I would recommend moving him.

To summarize, I would just watch him and see if the problem stays. If it does, you might want to check with a more experienced person and see what they think. If you get a few opinions about the matter, you can form your own. So I guess that's my outlook on it :)

[Bebe]

Some bites and bruises are to be expected when you turn a new horse out directly with an established herd. I've always been lucky as my mare is fairly easy going and keeps out of the way, although she'll charge another horse with teeth bared if they get in her space. This means it's rare (touch wood!) that she comes in with bite or kick marks.

Other horses though are less likely to just put up with things and if DJ is trying to establish a place high up in the herd then he could be getting in scuffles because of that. He should find his place soon enough and then he shouldn't be getting kicked or bitten at all, or very rarely anyway.

If you have time, try spending some time stood/sat in the field and watch how the horses interact with each other. It can tell you a lot about your horse as well as the others, it's very interesting.

Amanda

[cvb]

Yes it is "normal" to get kicks and bites like this. Normal for the unnatural situation we put our horse's in !

Out in the wild, a horse would have a lot of space to get away if the herd did not want to welcome him or her. In our world, we create stress for both new horse and herd by forcing them to accept each other in quite a short time.

If you have the room and time you can make a very gentle introduction - as discussed in some of the british horse magazines, by putting the new horse with a 'pair' horse that you think will be about equal according to pecking order, and hopefully one that does not already have a pair. They spend some time just by themselves before you reintroduce to the herd. The pair is able to help with introductions, allows the herd to make some assumptions about where the new horse sits in hierarchy, etc etc.

When my mother bought a new pony, she had the original two and the new one in side by side field for quite a while to get them used to each other before they were all together. So they had time to get used to each other's smell, look etc. They were also stabled near to each other so could get acquainted a little bit at night (sight, sound, smell).

But in many cases you do not have the room or time to affect such a gentle introduction, and then you will get the bites and kicks you have seen.

My horse has been at her stables for 6 months now and is still getting scrapes - but this is not 'introduction' this is just because she is 6 and likes to play. The other 4 in her group are all nice horses and they all get on ok.

After all, she is a horse, and will behave like one.

[KarinUS]

Your replies make me feel a lot better. Unfortunately gentle introduction is not offered at my barn. I've spend a couple of hours out there and things never happen when I am there!
The only thing I noticed is that DJ is kind of a ladies' man.
But it's mutual it seems. His girlfriend is calling for him, too, so I don't think it's her kicking him.
He seems happy there apart from his bruises and I think once everything has been worked out it will be very nice...

:)

[cvb]

the other thing that occured to me - DJ has plenty of room to get away (20 acres from your previous post). So if he is getting bitten, it is because he is choosing to be within biting distance of one or more of the horses.

If it was a smaller space and he could not get away, you might have more cause to worry.

[intouch]

My youngster - 3yo - has been running with the same 3 mares all his life - he still gets kicked regularly, 99 times out of 100 he gets out of the way, which means he gets a sore one once a fortnight! He's hopping lame at the moment - vet job - seriously thinking about taking him away to run with some other youngsters but then he wouldn't have the human interaction he has now. You can't win.
Don't get yourself stressed about it, horses don't feel insulted the way we do, he'll either accept the pecking order or challenge it - in which case he will set himself up for a dispute. You can't keep him in bubble wrap and I'm sure if he could choose, he'd rather be out there making friends than off on his own.

[suze]

Poor DJ.
My gelding is head of the herd (and a bit of a bully).
Only 5 acres as well, still plenty of room to get away, and thats what happens in our field.
I agree if DJ is getting quite a few injuries then he is probably going for a high rank in the herd.
Once his settled in and everyone knows their place it should be fine. Look out for a few lumps and bumps and other herd members probably have some as well. Hope it all goes well for you and DJ.

[*Shantih*]

I have 2 cobs, a mare and a gelding, who are on 24 hr turn out at the moment. They are the best of friends, EXCEPT when it comes to feed times.

My mare Rosie is a total "greedy guts" when it comes to food..typical welsh cob! She is really possessive and aggressive towards my gelding Robin. The trouble is he is so laid- back and dopey that when she kicks out at him, he doesn't move out of the way at all!

The other week, a found a nasty cut on his inside hind leg from i presume, a kick., which made me decide i must do something about it.

I don't want to split them up as they are such good friends most of the time, but i obviously don't want Robin to get any further injuries. I suppose i could just split them up during feed times, what do u think?

[happyhorse]

i wish my horse would run off but he likes to be top of the bunch and will go right up to the top horse and challenge him, pawing the ground and squeling. Its not so bad now as their are only 4 horses in my new field and they all submitted straight away to him! one of the ones he was put with was his pair bond anyway and the other two were already a pair bond together so it worked really well, unless one of the others wants to say hello to his mate and then he chases them off!

shantih - i would split them up during feeding, my horse would attack another horse but is fine when out normally, he has got much better and will allow his pair bond to share his bucket now (under supervision). When i first got him you couldn't go in his stable when he was eating but u can now.

[suze]

Yes split them up for mealtimes.
It would save all the squabbles and injuries plus they would each get their fair share of food.
We have to seperate ours at mealtimes else there would be a lot of bullying, flying kicks, bites and the smallest would be very hungry.