Advice please.

[Nik-n-Kia]

Hi guys

I'm not really thinking of changing my bit but i would like a bi of advice please.

Kia is currently in a DR Bristol snaffle. At our rideout on sunday he managed to avoid my aids my locking his neck.

I know that no bit is gonna stop this but i thought that I would ask about them anyway.

I want to try and avoid any poll pressure as he might rear if he feels there is no way out so gags and pelhams are out of the question. I am going to go back to our old snaffle and do some intensive schooling to see if it helps.

He is normally very respective of this bit and I dont want to go harsher as when not out he is fine with it.

Any suggestion would be helpful. No bit bashing though please as I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks!!!

Nikki xxxx

[Iron Maiden]

Did he cross his jaw when he locked his neck? If so a grackle might be worth a try. I used to ride a horse who would cross his jaw, lock his neck & just bomb off, he was a lot more controllable in a grackle. He was a RS horse so there was little opportunity to try schooling him out of it - this is of course the best option. It won't work overnight, though, so in the mean time for your own safety on hacks I'd agree that trying something different tack-wise is worth a go. The other thing I can think of that might be worth trying is a Waterford, I've never used one but one of my RIs (who I respect a lot) really rates them for getting strong horses light in the mouth for hunting.

[Nik-n-Kia]

He cant cross his jaw due to the flash i think but he was just locking his neck and he has a strong neck.

Is a waterford really severe???

He was just jamming the head down so that i couldnt get leverage to slow him up the little swine!!!

Nikki xxxx

[S_F_S]

Can you describe 'locking his neck'??

[cvb]

Nik

Were you using both reins to try and stop him, or one in isolation ?

Ignoring the bit for the moment, think about the muscles in the neck. The ones he locked are the ones that are strong front to back but weak side to side. So if you ask for lateral flexion, you normally "unlock" that muscle ?

Whereas if you take a "straight" contact with both reins in that situation, they normally use that like a wall to lean on !

[Nik-n-Kia]

Overbent in the neck but with his nose kinda sticking down if that makes sense???

It was almost like a buck when the rider is holding the head up from getting between the knees you know neck bent but the nose pointing down at the ground.

He wasnt gonna buck as i know when he is gonna do that but this is the first time he has done this in the three years i have had him.

Nikki xxxx

[Nik-n-Kia]

CVB

I ended up having to saw to stop him. I felt really bad doing it but we were about to smash into the back of the riders who ghad already stopped!!! He has steerable but not stoppable if that makes sense!!!

I am just confused as to how he was able to do this.......

I dont want to hurt his mouth and that's why i changed from a snaffle as I felt that he was leaning on that too much.

Nikki xxxx

[eml]

It sounds as if he is coming behind the contact and avoiding any action of the bit. I agree with CVB that flexing the neck is the immediate solution but I would suggest going back a stage in bitting and get him going forward into your hand.

I am not a great fan of Dr Bristol bits, from a large selection we have it is one I have never felt a need to use as it basically is a tongue pressure bit. Combine that with a flash to stop him opening his mouth and you have a very severe combination.

A waterford stops the horse getting hold of the bit but this is not your issue.

I am not a general supporter of go 'back to basic' bit and school but I feel this really might be your solution.

[cvb]

Nik

does he have a hard side and a soft side ? I had a cob with no brakes - in his later years he would do something similar to what you describe - kind of curl up - but he'd be backed off the contact little b !

Rather than alternate (saw) I'd be tempted to just ask him to soften to his "soft" side, and make sure he was not bracing into the hard side (almost drop the contact there if you need to). Its a remedial action to give you some control back rather than a schooling tip !

With my guy I found he often did this when he was getting tired, so try plenty of releases in between as well - to try and get through the idea it is more comfy if he quits the silliness ;)

[Iron Maiden]

Agree with CVB - my mare sometimes puts her head down & tries to tank, bending/flexing her & keeping her soft keeps her under control. I've bought a full cheek french link snaffle which helped get her flexing, sometimes I could almost pull the bit through her mouth with the loose ring because she was 'set' in her neck & jaw. It's one of those brassy metal bits that tastes sweet & this helps keep her jaw relaxed. I'd rather use a drop noseband than a flash to keep his mouth from opening too much if he's not crossing his jaw, IMO it's much more effective. Good luck!

[Nik-n-Kia]

Thanks Guys.

I took him out today in his snaffle and we had a gallop and he came back with just my voice and his snaffle!!!

I think that he was just objecting to being constantly held in really.

I will try the flexing as that sounds like areally good idea. He responds to being circled as well but when you are heading for a group of riders at full tilt circling isnt on you mind lol!!!

I have written down your suggestions and when he comes back to my stables at the weekend we are heading for the school and he will now be gagging for a hack lol!!!

Thank you peeps you never seem to let me down when I need a hand!!!

Nikki xxxxxx :D

[Siogfinsceal]

my horse is a legend at locking her jaw sometimes she even gets it stuck for a while - silly mare! she used to do this and take off and wouldnt turn. She also leans like mad. She took off in a rubber pelham and I could not pull up. She also once took off in a show class as she realised if she put her head up high the double bridle doesnt work so she had great fun with that.


after trying everything a grakle and a three ring snaffle(with d rings) and a martingale have worked best for me.

A french link snaffle is a lovely bit to try to as it has less of a nutcracker action, allows the horse to play a but more with the bit

[Nik-n-Kia]

Ok Peeps!!

I am back at my own stables and I have got my schooling head on and Kia is getn a strict schooling regime lol!!

We are back in the snaffle and he seems to be listening ok RE other post.

Should I just take him in the school and ask for basic walk and trot with plenty of transtitions and schooling exercises and a short canter to finish or should I ask for 'on the bit' and see how he is??

I am for the first one really but I am not the best for planning schooling as I tend to do most of mine out the hack but obviously I am trying to correct our faults so school it is lol.

What do you think??? I am open to suggestions and we are going to include pole work and small jumps later on for added interest but not at the mo lol.

He is a bit poorly just now due to one thing and another so the schooling will be strarting of when he is better with only about half an hour as he is used to three hour hacks so I dont want to have him out any less than half an hour.

Are hollowmouths and good or should I stick with a standard snaffle?? I was suggested something thicker by a friend.....

Nikki xxxx

[cvb]

Nik

what follows is personal opinion - not saying I am perfect at putting this into practice 100% ;)

In my view, I don't mind so much what frame they are in as long as they are *accepting* the aids. Now that is one way of describing "on the bit" but most people are also talking about having the horse in an outline, and a relatively collected one at that.

It is difficult for the horse to be truely accepting if they are not between leg and hand - but that does not mean an advanced frame, collection etc.

So I would base my schooling on that - on acceptance of the aids - and see what frame etc I can get that the horse is comfortable. Probably in this case I would want to be working as close as I can to how I would be out on a hack ? (as thats where you really want the control ?)

[Nik-n-Kia]

Cool CVB.

Lots of transtions and leaving his mouth anlone then as when I'm in the school I tend to have my reins quite loose. I still have contact but it isnt tight.

Heehee Mr Kia is in for a boring 3 weeks lol. Not really but I will be schooling for betterment not for dressage.

Thanks!! Anyone got anymore Ideas???

Nikki xxxxxx

[cvb]

Hi Nik

Do make sure you *are* getting acceptance tho'...

I had a cycle going with Fi (when she was sound) that if I asked for a bit more, she told me how hard it was, so I released back to her :rolleyes: so basically she was training me well ! ;) and training me not to ask too much

[Nik-n-Kia]

Well I have had a hack in my snaffle and even a small canter and he was beautigully behaved :rolleyes:

Typical. Well the schooling will still be going on I can tell you and the jumping will be starting so that I can have a few training days on the jumpcross this year.

Thanks for your help CVB!!!! And everyone else thank you too as I have now identified out prob and we will be working through it!!!

Nikki xxxxxx:D:D:D