Working on the bit

[Anvil83]

I'm very new to getting a horse on the bit. I had only slightly experienced & been aware of it recently when a horse was offering the contact to me, but I wasn't sure how to respond. I squeezed on with my legs thinking that this would do it, but am not really sure what to do. How should the contact feel with your hands & the reins?

How do you get a horse to work on the bit that isn't offering it you? And how do you respond to a horse once they are offering this contact? There was a horse I rode a while back who keeps his head held really high, I'm told that this is natural with him, but how would I ever get him to lower his head slightly?

[Anvil83]

Also I've noticed the whole time I've been riding that I never feel any heaviness in the reins, it's always a light feeling even if I shorten the reins, is this wrong? Should I try having the reins shorter? I've read that it should feel like holding 2 bags of sugar, is this right?

[coss]

when a horse is working round it should feel light, it doesn' matter how short your reins are, it just depends on your contact.
when a horse offers you a contact you should makes sure you have a contact with the reins (no washing lines :p) but it shouldn't pull. your legs should sort of hold the horse- not gripping as such but there should be a contact with your legs and you should makes sure you move with the horse's back as the horse will be softer there. Different horse give different contacts- some naturally take more of a hold than others.
it is very difficult to get a horse to lower its head. some horse simply need a consistant soft contact and a squeeze with the leg to activate the back end (the contact just stops the energy from the back end going out the front door). some horse need exercises to get them to relax as you need relaxation before impulsion. my mare holds her head high- to the extent that i used to be able to see her muzzle through her ears :eek: i've have done a lot of work in walk with circles and spirals, haunches in and shoulder in (for lateral flexion) and that helps her relax, then i can give her a leg contact (which she didn't used to accept- it used to mean go faster and that was it) and then i can pick up the reins. her age is against her though- i have a lot of corrections to do. some horses do have a naturally high head carrieage to though and find long and low hard so you have to work with that too.

[Gina789]

I was going to ask this too and could really do with some tips as she sticks are nose up and what I like to call 'struts' down the road. So if I give contact with the leg will she goe quicker she literally needs the lightest movement (not even really a squeese and she goes) so if i give contact will she think I mean up the pace?

[Anvil83]

Another thing I've tried is lowering my hands & giving the reins now & again to let the horse stretch it's neck, is this the right way to go about getting a good contact?

[coss]

I was going to ask this too and could really do with some tips as she sticks are nose up and what I like to call 'struts' down the road. So if I give contact with the leg will she goe quicker she literally needs the lightest movement (not even really a squeese and she goes) so if i give contact will she think I mean up the pace?

yes :o it takes a lot of time and patience... the best way to get her accepting the contact is to do things which involve you using your legs so that she doesn't react quite as much. i recommend, turn about the forehand and turn about the hauches, sometimes quarter turns, sometimes half turns, etc with lots of variety so she learns to wait for the leg aids and see what you actually want ie, not fast ;)
this is what my mare used to be like
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/cosspb/Dawn3.jpg
and this is how i can get her http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q177/cosspb/Dawnexceptingbit.jpg
not all the time, but with time she is getting more round and relaxed. doesn't mind my leg being there so i can ask her to go fast but can ask her to do other things too- bonus!
more recently
http://file036a.bebo.com/6/large/2007/05/05/14/1359860817a4289112806b838353722l.jpg

[coss]

Another thing I've tried is lowering my hands & giving the reins now & again to let the horse stretch it's neck, is this the right way to go about getting a good contact?

lowering the hands can get the head down but doesn't engage the back end - for relaxation purposes it is useful. However, when a work is truly working from behind then raising your hands will lower the head:eek: its a bit weird...
giving the reins can be good but should be used more as a reward for if the horse is giving you a good contact- give and retake the reins. you can lighten your contact and take up a stronger contact - is that what you mean?

[Anvil83]

That's amazing results coss, I wish I could do that.

But what would you all recommend I do at the beginning of a lesson? I'm never on the same horse long enough to get used to it, I've been going to another school aswel that has more horses & so I am on a different horse all the time. But now I'm sticking to the one school & am going to see how I get on, they haven't got that many horses so there's more chance I'll be on the same horse each week.

What I was wondering is, when you first get on the horse, after checking your stirrups what's the process you go through with the horse, do you walk around with a long rein for a while, find where they put their head & then take up a contact?? Or take up a contact straight away?

Also do you keep your legs against their sides the whole time? In walk should my legs alternate tapping each side of the horse as it's sides move to the left & right? In trot do you constantly squeeze or tap their sides constantly with your legs? Or just give the aid to trot, then keep legs still & if they slow then give them again?

Sorry with all the questions again :o

When I ask an instructor these questions they never really answer, but throughout the lesson they're saying squeeze squeeze squeeze when going over trotting poles, but when doing just walk & trot they only talk about my position not what my legs should be doing. I wish they had more time to talk to me properly rather than play with their mobile, talk to friends & look like they'd rather be elsewhere, that was my little rant for the day :D

Also how do you keep a lazy horse in canter? Which leg do you use to squeeze the horse on each stride, is it the inside leg?

[coss]

just writing a reply -its turning out to be quite long:o

[coss]

That's amazing results coss, I wish I could do that.

But what would you all recommend I do at the beginning of a lesson? I'm never on the same horse long enough to get used to it, I've been going to another school aswel that has more horses & so I am on a different horse all the time. But now I'm sticking to the one school & am going to see how I get on, they haven't got that many horses so there's more chance I'll be on the same horse each week.

What I was wondering is, when you first get on the horse, after checking your stirrups what's the process you go through with the horse, do you walk around with a long rein for a while, find where they put their head & then take up a contact?? Or take up a contact straight away?

Also do you keep your legs against their sides the whole time? In walk should my legs alternate tapping each side of the horse as it's sides move to the left & right? In trot do you constantly squeeze or tap their sides constantly with your legs? Or just give the aid to trot, then keep legs still & if they slow then give them again?

Sorry with all the questions again :o

When I ask an instructor these questions they never really answer, but throughout the lesson they're saying squeeze squeeze squeeze when going over trotting poles, but when doing just walk & trot they only talk about my position not what my legs should be doing. I wish they had more time to talk to me properly rather than play with their mobile, talk to friends & look like they'd rather be elsewhere, that was my little rant for the day :D

Also how do you keep a lazy horse in canter? Which leg do you use to squeeze the horse on each stride, is it the inside leg?

it has taken a lot of time to get my mare to do that and i have ridden many horses that have varying problems when it comes to outline- experience is generally key, my RI told me if i can get my mare to go in a consistent outline i'll be able to get ANY horse in a consistent outline (over time) which has been a real incentive for me.
at the beginning of the lesson there are a variety of things you can do depending on the horse and your aims for that ride. if my horse is feeling very energetic i will trot round on no rein contact (only picking it up to slow down otherwise i end up in gallop if we're not in a school :rolleyes::D) and this chills her out, gets her to let off steam. i can then walk her on a long rein and very gradually pick up a rein contact and maybe do some spirals in walk- that will get her bending and softening to any contact i give. another day i might start off in walk and do some 10m half circle change the rein things... (um, how to explain) eg, ride around the arena on the right rein and do a half 10m circle at M to G then G to H (right rein to G then left rein to H) then do left 10m half circle to X at E and a half right to B (from X) then half right at F to D then half left (D to K), then you can do the pattern starting from F going down the school. it is often a very good slow warming up exercise that only takes a few minutes but tends to be relaxing and just helps the horse swing through the back a bit. after doing the half 10m circles i might start doing some turn about (note its about not on) the forehand on the 3-quarter line of the school starting with quarter turns, or do a diamond shaped pattern, instead of riding a circle at A you ride a diamond where the points are A, X and then half way between E and the top end of the school and B and the top end of the school. at each point you do a quarter turn. you could even take it to a figure of 8 type thing, don't do a quarter turn at X, get to the other side of the school and do a turn about the forehand in the opposite direction.
the aim is to get the horse listening to you in a relaxed way and after about 10mins of walk you will probably find that you don't have to hold your legs away from the horse, you should have them draped down the horses side like a damp teacloth on the back of a chair- it is in contact but not gripping.

My preference is that your legs should be as still as possible. there are instructors that teach people to tap alternate sides of the horse in walk and unfortunately horses get used to this and then they need it- i've ridden horses like that and refused to "kick" every stride, just because you stop nagging with your legs shouldn't mean they stop. it is very hard to train a horse not to need the nagging though and it is very tiring to ride tapping either side of the horse as it is working, i would rather give a squeeze to ask for walk and then sit quietly (obviously moving my seat with the horse and my shoulders with the horse's to allow the movement) but i don't carry on asking for walk when they are walking, if i feel them slowing up i will squeeze again, if i constantly have to do that i will give a tap with a stick and that generally lasts a few more strides (although with some horses ...:rolleyes: ) and then go through the process again.
in trot, again, your legs should be still unless you are asking for something in particular- with trot poles you would be asking for more lift and more impulsion from the back end so would give a nudge every stride for the poles, after the poles though you just want the horse to trot- otherwise they'll be knackered;)
For canter you have to move your seat with the horses back and if you feel them slowing down you go against that and keep moving your seat in rhythm- that generally prevents a horse stopping although of course there are exceptions, your inside leg should be "on the girth" so it is there to ask for more impulsion, your outside leg will be back slightly (hardly at all) to stop the back end spinning out (my other horse taught me this) and it also makes it feel like you're holding the canter together more.

I would also be ranting if my instructor did that to me- they should give you their full attention when you are asking how to improve your riding and why you do/don't do things.
keep asking questions- its the only way you'll learn (oh, and through lots of riding).
It isn't a bad thing to ride a variety of horses- i wouldn't be riding the way i do now if i hadn't ridden a variety, but it is also beneficial to ride the same horse regularly so you can get a feel for getting somewhere with the horse.

By the way, when you crack the outline thing and have the horse truly working from behind in a relaxed way and therefore willing to give you a contact (through mind and physically- legs, seat and finally hands) then you will want that from any horse you ride, it is VERY addictive. every horse i get on now, i try and get them to work from behind and come into my hand as it is such a nice feeling. my RI told me it was addictive, then i became addicted :p

[showjumper-zoe]

Get your horse working in a good, correct outline and he'll be more supple in no time, as well as getting better dressage marks, For many riders, the word 'outline' conjures up an image of a horse with his head hanging at the
vertical. Instead, try to think of outline as coming from the back end -your horse's engine. Your horse will need to have an engaged hind leg and, most importantly, his back should be in a stretched, rounded tension so that he, can support his rider. This also helps to provide a strong connection between the hindquarters and the forehand. Straightness is an important issue
If you try to fprce the horse into an outline by applying downward pressure on the bars of the mouth or the tongue, the horse will resist by coming against the hand and above the bit, so rule out force and think softness.
The easiest pace in which to practise outline is, for most horses, in trot, and on a circle, so check the trot is moving forwards freely and that you have the rhythm you want. Try the 'hup, two, three, four' counting exercise. You'll
with your ribcage lifted and your shoulders back. Getting this core strength can be hugely improve having lunge lessons, or working without stirrups on a safe horse.
Once you're happy the trot is act enough, check you have a consiste rein contact (equal weight in both hands, not too light or too heavy), so that the energy from your horse's back end can be channelled into the rein contact, allowing him tn round his and work into the contact. Keep in mind the horse wasn't born with an instruction manual. He learns by trial and error based on making himself more comfortable.

[Anvil83]

Thank you coss, that was a lot to take in but I'll give it a go. I have a lesson beginning of next week so will keep you posted on how it goes. I'm going to be riding yet another horse who I've never ridden, but I've seen her be ridden & she's very lazy, so I'll try my best.
Thanks again :)

[Lot1983]

When trying to get Sam to work from behind, we do lots and lots of circles, ensuring that we have good implusion, which we get from doing lots of transitions.

Sam have a very delicate mouth and reacts badly to a strong contact, so I have very light hands, although we now work from behind with a lowered neck, we do not have the 'classic' outline look of a tucked in nose and arched neck.

BUT, when we are working from behind it's like riding a different horse, he floats round the arena and I feel like I am floating, it changes my whole way of going too, I don't feel like I am nagging him and feel like were working together.

Now I have got the hang of working from behind, on Tuesday when I rode it took about half the time to achieve!

[lh-sc]

American horse trainier John Lyons says when you are asking for bit contact with your hands, think of it as this situation: you are at a dance and you see a girl you think you would like to get to know. You go over to ask her for a dance. A lot will depend on how you take her hand as she rises and you go onto the dance floor. You want to have gentle hands, hands that lead her and yet that respond to her. You are communicating a lot about what kind of relationship you want and what your attitude is toward her, just by how you hold her hand. You must indicate by your hands that you know what you want her to do, but never stop focusing on her response, and adapting to that, while still keeping your eventual goal in mind, the goal of having a nice dance and having her trust you.
I'm not a guy, but I can relate to this, and it made it easier to eventually teach the horse to get "on the bit" with a minimum of fuss on either side.