Questions, questions...

[Marlena]

Hi!

It seems that the more I ride the more I need to ask. I have a bunch of questions to all you wise people out there... please bear with me.

First of all, how can a beginner possibly tell how good (or well trained) a horse is? I tend to be very critical of myself so whenever a class goes badly, I blame myself for it. Last week, however, I begun to have my doubts as I had to ride a horse which had an awful cough. Halfway into the class, once I realised that it was turning into another lesson from hell and approached the instructor (the horse was coughing CONSTANTLY), I was told an number of things I shouldn't do with him. Once we started trotting, he was wheezing very audibly, and although I'm no expert, I could swear I felt his condition in his gait. He's a chronic cougher (bad lungs, they said) and although it may be that I should learn to ride all kinds of horses, I'm not sure whether this is the right time since I'm a beginner. What do you people think? I have come to realise that most of the horses there have some sort of a peculiar habit or condition that you need to take into account.

Secondly, neither of the two places I ride at has a field so the horses never, ever get out, save the occasional hack or trip to a competition. I was always under the impression that it was necessary for a horse to get to graze and frolic about with equine friends, yet when I asked them they looked at me as if I was a certified loonatic.

Thirdly, what kind of care does a horse ideally need before and after a class? I notice that most people don't groom a horse before saddling it, while others insist on doing it (mainly beginners!), and after the class the horses are just taken back to the stables. When I went riding as a child, we were always asked to clean the hooves and rub the sweat off.

And finally, I've been trying out weight aids and little tricks I've read in books, mainly Heather's, and I notice that while some horses respond to them beautifully others don't. When I notice that a horse is not responding, should I just forget about it or persist in the hope that they learn?

Thanks,

Marlena.

[Sarah]

hello!

It osunds lto me like there was something very wrong witht he horse you were riding last week. Obviously a horse can cough a few timeand be fine, but if it is constantly coughing, it must have something really irratating it. I would seriously wonder if the school was right to let you (or anyone else) ride this horse. All horses are different, just like people and can need handling in different ways.

I know that the 'traditional' way to keep horses is often in stables with no turn out time, but, as you said, this is not a good idea. Horses are herd animals and need to interact with each other at liberty for their own welfare.

A horse should always be brushed and have its hoofs picked out before tacking up - just one hay seed under the saddle can irritate the horse. The same goes for after riding - the saddle can push the coat up in a funny way as it is taken off (and if it doesn't fit properly) which could cause discomfort for the horse.

With regard to the weight aids, it could be that you are riding seasoned riding school horse who are so used to having unbalanced people on them that they no longer respond to the weight aids.

I hope that helped.

bye!

[Myrmex]

Sounds like the horse you were riding wasn't really fit to work if it was coughing that badly. My friend has an old mare with a lung problem (COPD - but don't ask me what it stands for) and she coughs and wheezes as you described - but only when she's been exposed to hay or straw. She's retired now (well, she is in her thirties) but I used to ride her until recently - she enjoyed going out for an hour's walk (especially if she could find something to spook at - she has a real sense of humour) but couldn't cope with trotting or anything else. I certainly wouldn't have put her through the stress of schooling or a lesson.
As for the horses not getting out to graze and relax - poor things. A lot of people do keep horses stabled full time when they're not working them, but it's not ideal from the horse's point of view and can lead to behavioural problems. It's hardly a natural lifestyle for them, after all. However, sometimes grazing land is so expensive or inaccessible that it becomes necessary. Do they ever turn the horses loose in the school?

I'm surprised they're not pushing the grooming/feet checking before/after riding. There's no need to go overboard on it, but a swift brush before tacking up to shift any bits of grit or hay is a must for safety and the horse's comfort, as is checking the feet. Afterwards, it's nice for the horse if somebody takes the trouble to sponge the sweat off or at least give their back a rub (my horses prefer to do it themselves and go out in the field for a good roll in the mud...).

Trouble is, I suppose, that no matter how good a riding school is in some respects, it'll never be perfect.

Myrmex

[Marlena]

Thanks, Sarah,

Your reply was a great help!

Can you (or anybody else) recommend a good book on horsecare/behaviour?

I have learnt not to trust the instructors fully, however experienced they are. The other week, for example, my husband asked the owner's help with tacking a difficult (nervous or dominant) horse. She first slapped the horse, then kicked her in the belly and when this didn't help, she beat her backside with the stirrups so that you could see the marks half an hour later. No wonder the horse was nervous! Many seasoned riders here seem to think that certain horses need that, whereas I'm convinced there must be another way!

Marlena.

[Marlena]

Thanks to you too Myrmex.

No, at least in one of the schools they never turn the horses loose, and they try to avoid all interaction between them so as to avoid diseases!?

Marlena.

[Sarah]

hello!

For books on understanding horse behavior and horsecare, you can't beat the advice given by Monty Roberts. he has written a super book on his life story called the man who listens to horses (I think) which discusses how he came to understand horses which is a very interesting book, and another one I would recommend is by Richard maxwell called Understanding your horse.

If you treat a horse how another horse would, the horse will understand you and start to co-operate much quicker than if you use 'traditional' methods.

I hope you can find those two books in the Netherlands, if not, maybe Amazon will have them.

bye!

[Myrmex]

I agree with Sarah - Monty Roberts' book is well worth reading for an understanding of the horse's mind and behaviour, as is Richard Maxwell's 'Understanding your horse', which covers the common behavioural problems as well as the basics. Other good ones are 'Reading your horse's mind' (I forget the author and that title may not be quite right) and 'For the good of the horse', by Mary Wanless.

The more you say about these riding school horses, the more I feel sorry for them. It is easy to pick holes in other peoples' management of horses, but there's no excuse for beating a horse even if it is difficult. My horse is 'difficult' - mainly because she was brutally mishandled in the past. She's still very nervous and it would only take one smack with a whip to turn her into a panicking lunatic again - and to ruin all the trust she now puts in me. It's one thing to be firm with a horse - quite another to abuse it.
As for keeping horses isolated because of the risk of disease transmission - what a load of cr*p! Do the staff there wash their hands and boots before going from one stable to the next? I doubt it! The real sufferers in this are the horses, who are deprived of their social life and normal behaviour. And to think I was panicking last year because my horse had to spend a month in a field on her own...

Myrmex

[CLAUDIA]

There are some good people out there who truly care for the animals. Where I take lessons the horses are turned out no less than once a week, and that includes the school horses. They all get a day off. They also let them socialize with their horse friends every now and then in the arena, but only two or three at a time. They are fed the same time every day, and someone is always watching the beginners to be sure they don't make a mistake. Actually, someone always have their eye out for the horses. And by no means does anyone ever hit, kick, or mistreat a horse in any way. One of the first lessons I had the school horse I was riding began to get a little bit feisty. It really scared me because he was lifting his front feet off the ground. My riding instructor was promptly at the horses side, and she talked to him. But he kept doing it. She didn't smack him or jerk on the reins like I've seen so many people do, but she looked around to see if there was anything at all that was scaring him. Of course, there was. It was a black tarp blowing in the wind. He was horrified! She told someone to run over and shut the door, then she hooked him up to the longe and let him run around in a circle to his heart's content, which seemed to calm him down very quickly. Is this unusual? I haven't had much experience in the horse world, but you all make it sound like nearly everyone handles them quite improperly. What else should I look for at the stables I go to? I would love to hear more about what is right and what is wrong. :)

[KarlR]

Marlena,

Coughing, particularly chronic coughing can be very difficult to ride with and whilst it is may not be too serious for the horse it certainly will not help you to improve.

Many horses have an allergy to hay, even from adjacent stables and in considerate environments such horses tend to be stabled seperately with sawdust and/or matting. Alternatively, one stable that I rode at left the horse out until needed and then caught her in time for lessons.

It does seem from what you say that the stables are only interested in having the horses obedient - if they are not interested in whether the horses pick up stable vices then it hardly sets a good example does it?

As far as the instructors are concerned I'm afraid that I don't have much tolerance for mistreatment of horses, and I would certainly not stand for the sort of behaviour the instructors have shown here. All the stables that I have *ever* attended turns their horses out regularly, even if only for short periods when the weather is bad. This is normal...keeping the horses permanently in stables is just asking for trouble. Beating a horse is counter-productive and leads to many behavioural problems.

Persist with the weight aids. Most horses do respond, but even if they don't, using the correct weight aid in combination with other aids with slowly educate them and get you used to using them automatically.

Karl R

[Myrmex]

Claudia, what's right and wrong in horse treatment often depends on who you talk to! For instance, Monty Roberts says you should never hit or use physical punishment on a horse - you should always understand why they are doing what they are doing. On the other hand, my riding instructor is very much traditional BHS and believes that misbehaviour deserves a smack (one smack, note, not a beating!). I sit on the fence... However, I don't know that I agree with what your instructor did, in effectively taking away the 'scary thing'. I've seen horses that have always had the 'scary things' taken away and have never had to face and cope with them - when they eventually have to cope, out on a hack for example, they get dangerously frightened. On the other hand, she couldn't put you in danger, so was probably right in terms of your safety.

Myrmex

[Marlena]

Hi!

I've seen a lot of things happening that I haven't been impressed by, to say the least, but so far I have always thought that these people are much more experienced than I, and probably know what they are doing.

However, this incident that I described appalled me because of the sheer brutality. What's more, I couldn't believe that the owner was actually TEACHING my husband to treat the horse this way.

Marlena.

[Myrmex]

Experience doesn't necessarily mean wisdom, understanding or empathy for the horse. Some people seem to think it's macho to hit a 'lesser' animal. After all, horses are just dumb animals aren't they? Inferior, stupid, they need a good hiding to make them obedient, got to show them who's boss, force is the only sensible way to do it, so students must do too... Thank goodness you're not falling for it Marlena!

It is of course, a load of cr*p. There's no need for it. If you follow Monty Roberts' work, he and his students never hit the horse. If you're more of a traditional type, ONE smack at the RIGHT TIME can work wonders - and most people still use schooling whips, crops or a sharp kick to reprove the horse for bad behaviour. Brutality just frightens the horse, makes it resentful and eventually, can lead to aggression, handling difficulties, or depression and anxiety-related vices (like weaving). I've ridden horses in Africa that have never had kind treatment - and they are horrible, vicious, mannerless brutes, through no fault of their own.

You can always spot a place where the horses are well treated - they're relaxed, calm and often better to ride. Where they get hit a lot, they get nervous, tense, jumpy and are usually head shy.

I'll get off my soap-box now...

Myrmex

[CLAUDIA]

Yes, I know exactly what you mean! I've seen it, even through my little experience with horses. Do you know what's the sad part of it all? When I have seen horses being mishandles, it's the children that are doing it. Well, I really shouldn't say children because they are nearly high school age if not in high school now. I see absolutlely no reason to treat any animal in that way simply because we (people) have the ability to reason. It's not so difficult to believe that horses can end up as horribly rotten when they're mistreated. After all, dogs, birds, little children, cats, virtually every living thing that has been wronged repeatly by people end up with some awful problem that's not their fault at all.

Oh dear. Listen to me rant about this subject. It has been disturbing to me for as long as I can remember, but I have yet to find the courage to speak up when it really counts. :(

[This message has been edited by CLAUDIA (edited 18 June 1999).]