Frustrated with lower leg. Am I a lost cause?

[kiwigirl]

Had a lesson on Thursday with a different RI and spent the whole hour trotting round and round trying to get my lower leg stable in rising trot. I can keep it still and in the right position in sitting trot but it creeps forward when I rise. I was totally exhusted after this lesson trying my best to keep it there and just feel if I can't achieve this will I ever progress with my riding??

I know most people are going to answer to do more work without stirrups - but does anyone have some tips for exercises at home?

Friday my usual RI had me doing rising trot in the jump seat. This seemed to help me get the feel of where my leg should be while rising.

[Gracie]

This may not be something you can control, but does your saddle have knee rolls?

My first saddle did not, and I found the knee rolls make a huge difference in making my position more stable!

Just a thought.

Exercises at home Im not too sure about.
I actually ordered a book, thats is about fitness exercises for the horse back rider.

I also found this website which has some interesting exercises including some lower leg ones:

http://www.pilates.com/BBAPP/V/personal/pilates-equestrian-exercise.html

[Ladyknight]

Well yes no stirrups would be good:) but the idea of this is to get your body position correct and weight into your heels so they are basically anchored there but you still have flexible absorbing ankles.

One exercise which I found helped me lots is to stretch my back calf muscle. All you need is a set of steps. Put your toes where you would have them in the stirrups on the edge of the step, and smoothly drop weight down so your heels go down lower than your feet. Make sense???:confused::D
Make sure you increase the stretch each time and never force it or "bounce" it-very damaging.

I found this great and easy to do anytime I went up stairs. Hope it helps!:)

p.s I was told this helps even more because a lot of exercise we do encourages our calf muscle contrct or something and not strectch??? he he how clueless do I sound

[Whatanejit]

You are describing EXACTLY what my OH's problem is.

Very frustrating isn't it?

I'll have to say that it has taken him about 8 months of lessons to sort this out but that is because our boy was off work over the winter and OH didn't have another horse to ride - probably just as well as the further the lower leg creeps forward the more of a bang you give the saddle - not good for any horses back but especially not a 5 year old.

Anyway how our RI tackled it with him was to................

1. Make him do the forward sitting when the horse was trotting - he didn't rise as you describe he just stood up in the stirrups, tilted forward a little, bum back a little with MINIMAL contact on the horse's mouth.

This was done on or off the lunge.

This sort of forces you legs down and into the correct position - if they creep forward you fall backwards and yank horse's mouth. If they creep backwards you tip forward and lean on horse's neck.

We did this a lot on an instructional riding holiday in Spain only they called it suspended trot which I think is a better name for it.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/Whatanejit/The%20School/OHlunge4.png

A few circuits in this position and the RI would ask him to start rising thinking about the action of moving hips towards the hands (not up) and thinking about as if you are about to kneel down.

Try standing in your living room in the riding position (sitting), now make a trot movement with your hips coming forward and as if you are going to kneel with your knees.

That helps to keep your leg back - well it did mine.

Sorry, I am not very good at explaining things.

The other thing that doesn't help is if you are riding in a forward cut GP or Hunting saddle as your leg is immediately placed very far forward anyway. You might find you are better when riding in a dressage saddle.

Oh, I've written an essay - I hope that helps.

Don't despair this is a common but frustrating problem and only practice will sort it out for you.

Let us know how you get on.

:)

[Julz]

If your leg is creeping forward when you have stirrups, but not when you are stirrup less, then perhaps you need to shorten your stirrups by a hole or two?

If your stirrups are too long, this will make you lean back, and your lower leg creep forward... Thus making you unbalanced on the horse.

If your stirrups are too short, your legs will be too far back, and your upper body will tip forward, thus making you unbalanced on the horse... also if your legs are too far back, they will be in constant contact with the horse who may not like it, and will keep "going off the leg" as taught...

To judge if your stirrups are the correct length, hang your legs down beside the stirrup iron, the tread of the iron should lie just below your ankle bone...

No amount of work without stirrups will make your lower leg stay still, if your stirrups arent the right length for you.

[entreat]

Hang on... if your stirrups are too short, it will put you in to an 'arm-chair' position, ie, legs foward.. I thought anyway. I used to do it for years until I swallowed my fear & dropped my stirrups.

I'd go with Whatanejit - my RI has me doing this too. I need more leg strength, and it does that exactly!

[Julz]

Hang on... if your stirrups are too short, it will put you in to an 'arm-chair' position, ie, legs foward.. I thought anyway. I used to do it for years until I swallowed my fear & dropped my stirrups.



If your stirrups are too short your leg will be forced backwards, so your upper body will then tip forward...

The stirrup bars are located just under your thigh... if you were sitting in that position then perhaps you werent sitting in the saddle correctly? you would have to have been sitting too far back in the saddle

[Anvil83]

I had a lesson earlier today & the instructor said that the reason my lower legs keep moving are because I keep taking my lower leg away from the horses sides & trying to squeeze with my heels & as the horse I rode is quite small for me I'm having to bring my heel up, so instead I had to try & squeeze with just my calves, well she said that you should only use your calves anyway, but I didn't know I was using my heels, I was completely unaware, as soon as I started using my calves it worked wonders!

Also I was using my knees to stay on rather than my lower legs, as soon as I took my knees away from the saddle & really exaggerated it by really widening my hips & knees I felt like I had a deeper seat & I felt more secure although it was a bit strange at first.

The reason I rode with my knees so close is due to the way I was initially taught in another school, they tried to get me to close my legs around the horse, have my toes facing towards the horses head, legs turned inwards from the hips whilst also trying to sit back on your tail bone! It was impossible, but I almost managed it, but then I stopped going to that riding school & now I've tried this new school & have been taught a completely different way of riding, I'm still quite confused, & I constantly want to go back to old habits, but I'm working on it.

[Julz]

The proper way to ask your horse to move forwards is to squeeze with your calves. This is easier said than done for most. Had you been on a horse that was the right size for you, you would find that although you squeeze with your calves you heels also will some some contact, unless you are a grand prix dressage rider...

think about it...if you are to squeeze the horse forward, why do grand prix dressage riders wear spurs?

The "proper" way to halt your horse is to squeeze the reins and with your legs, if you are to get a square halt....

Instructor's tend not to teach this way (in RS) because the horses are not sensitive enough, to the leg aid, most are dead to leg aids, however there's always one that is!!

[Cheesel]

One of the things my instructor did to me to help me keep my legs still was to put a dock leaf between my inside calf and the pony and I had to try and keep it there.. was hard as I was laughing so much.. also if your stirrups are too long you will tip forward and your legs will swing backwards.. Get someone to measure your stirrups properly and also check you are actually sitting on your seat not your pelvic bones.

[FreedomStar]

I've got one really good exercise for you. Backwards stirrups.

To ride with backward stirrups, you don't need to change the position of the stirrups on the saddle at all. Mount as you normally would, and I would suggest warming up however you normally do that. And then when you're ready to put yourself to work, take your feet out of your stirrups and put the HEEL of your feet into the front of the stirrup. And then put yourself through your paces: walk, trot, canter, and even a little jumping if you and your horse jump. What this does is puts your weight more where you need it, and will have you using your calves more instead of your heels, so if you need to ask your horse to move forward then you have to use your calves. It'll also seat you with a bit more of a forward seat. Be careful so that you're not tipping forward too far and allowing your legs to slip back.

It's difficult to get the hang of, and at first the stirrups will slip off, but keep trying and don't give up! I still make myself do this exercise as often as I can remember. How sore I am the day after I ride like this will tell me if I've been relying too much on my stirrups and heels for support.

[Julz]

check you are actually sitting on your seat not your pelvic bones.


:confused::confused:

You are supposed to sit on your seat bones.....Your pelvic bones make up your seat bones...In other words, sit on your bum, and not your "front bottom"

[Joyscarer]

I think they might have meant pubic rather than pelvic. :)

[Anvil83]

I have a huge problem with this, whenever I try to sit on my bum more my thighs shoot forwards, so frustrating.

[joshes mum]

I have a problem of tipping forward but i dont realise im doing it till my friends keep yelling sit up.:oAnyway im having lessons as from saturday so hopefully will get it sorted.:p

[Julz]

Dawnhaytree - make sure you are looking up and forward with your head, and not looking down, this could cause you to tip forward too....I have a habit of looking down too!!!

Joyscarer - could well have been pubic and not pelvic!! lol

[joshes mum]

Will do julz.:)

[NZdressage]

Had a lesson on Thursday with a different RI and spent the whole hour trotting round and round trying to get my lower leg stable in rising trot. I can keep it still and in the right position in sitting trot but it creeps forward when I rise. I was totally exhusted after this lesson trying my best to keep it there and just feel if I can't achieve this will I ever progress with my riding??

I know most people are going to answer to do more work without stirrups - but does anyone have some tips for exercises at home?

Friday my usual RI had me doing rising trot in the jump seat. This seemed to help me get the feel of where my leg should be while rising.


Honestly, I dont think the RI should have worked on that the whole hour!! Think, of keeping your thigh parallel with the flap of your saddle, ie, if your in a dressage saddle keep it vertical, this should help your lower leg, also keep your legs off. If you squeeze of keep them touching the horses sides then its going to be harder to keep them still.
It will get better as you get stronger and more experienced, I wouldnt worry. Keep trying you will get there :D

[misssousie]

Its very difficult to get your legs int he correct position if you aren't sitting right, try some exercises to open up through your hips ensuring your sat on your bum but gettting your legs back and around the horse, it will come with time so don't worry, I've been riding for years but if I stop riding as much for a while I lose my strength and find it hard to keep my position it happens to the best of us. Its very easy to watch dressage riders and dream of being able to ride like them but I know for a fact some of them will spend hours a day in sitting trot just to strenthen their muscles and keep their position

[lindiak007]

Well yes no stirrups would be good:) but the idea of this is to get your body position correct and weight into your heels so they are basically anchored there but you still have flexible absorbing ankles.

One exercise which I found helped me lots is to stretch my back calf muscle. All you need is a set of steps. Put your toes where you would have them in the stirrups on the edge of the step, and smoothly drop weight down so your heels go down lower than your feet. Make sense???:confused::D
Make sure you increase the stretch each time and never force it or "bounce" it-very damaging.

I found this great and easy to do anytime I went up stairs. Hope it helps!:)

p.s I was told this helps even more because a lot of exercise we do encourages our calf muscle contrct or something and not strectch??? he he how clueless do I sound


That is funny, I just read this thread and practiced the same today!But the steps were so slipery, that I thought I will fell down on my nose;-)

[Gemsluvshorsesx]

I've got one really good exercise for you. Backwards stirrups.

To ride with backward stirrups, you don't need to change the position of the stirrups on the saddle at all. Mount as you normally would, and I would suggest warming up however you normally do that. And then when you're ready to put yourself to work, take your feet out of your stirrups and put the HEEL of your feet into the front of the stirrup. And then put yourself through your paces: walk, trot, canter, and even a little jumping if you and your horse jump. What this does is puts your weight more where you need it, and will have you using your calves more instead of your heels, so if you need to ask your horse to move forward then you have to use your calves. It'll also seat you with a bit more of a forward seat. Be careful so that you're not tipping forward too far and allowing your legs to slip back.

It's difficult to get the hang of, and at first the stirrups will slip off, but keep trying and don't give up! I still make myself do this exercise as often as I can remember. How sore I am the day after I ride like this will tell me if I've been relying too much on my stirrups and heels for support.

you put your heels in the front of the irons?
*im all confused lol* pics?

[Jester Wales]

Has anyone here ever read Heather Moffats book Enlightened Equitation? I found the advise in this book very helpful if you are struggling with problems such as this.

She also designs saddles which have the stirrup bar placed further back so that the leg can drop down naturally into the stirrup. Most saddles have more forward set stirrup bars and therefore they pull the foot foward and you have to pull it back to behind the girth for it to be in the correct position. This puts you off balance and behind the horses movement and leads to the lower leg movement as you leg struggles with the angle at which the stirrup is hung. It all makes perfect sense to me having always ridden better without stirrups in the past!

I have also been along to her equisimulator course where she teaches you to absorbe the horses movement through your seat. She teaches this on equisimulators and its has certainly been helpful to me. I have lots of faults still to overcome but I am a quieter more poised rider and now know what leg is coming under the horse without looking and what diaganal the horse is on just by feel.

The other thing that might help the lower leg is using a physio roll as a way to excecise. I have found tight hips affect the lower leg. The use of the inside calf inwards and slightly forwards/upwards giving the horse a nudge/pulse to give an aid is also difficult to control if you are not fit for this. With the physio roll I can streach my hips sitting astride it and I also can squeeze it and suck up to work my seat and leg muscles. I can also use it like the horses side to emmulate how I would correctly give a leg aid.

Having broken both of my ankles, one twice I have struggled with my lower leg and all of the above have made a huge difference.

[Daffy Dilly]

The proper way to ask your horse to move forwards is to squeeze with your calves.

The "proper" way to halt your horse is to squeeze the reins and with your legs, if you are to get a square halt.

That depends on your school of thought. The proper way to ask my horse to walk on, is with a seat aid. Legs don't come into it unless he's not listening. Similarly, when he is listening, the halt also comes from the seat. If he's not listening, the reins will come into play.

you put your heels in the front of the irons?

Doesn't make sense to me either. I'm thinking about my saddle - it's a VSD, the stirrup bars are not far back enough for me to have that perfect shoulder-hip-heel alignment without considerable effort and if my legs are relaxed I simply can't do it. So putting my heel in the stirrup, brings my lower leg further forwards than it already is, which would make for a chair seat and a completely instable lower leg.

To the OP, look at this thread and see if it helps at all.
http://www.enlightenedequitation.com/ee/boards/index.php?topic=21503.0