is there a foolproof recipe to avoid crookedness?

[notpoodle]

ive always ridden slightly lopsided :o


whilst i am overall straight (ie i dont tend to slouch), and have overcome my habit of looking down rather than ahead, every time i see a picture of me riding (or my own shadow!) i can see that my hips are always crooked. how is angel meant to know where she's meant to be going when my hips/weight distribution tells her all sorts of things :confused: or when i try to turn, shoulder tips forward (the wrong shoulder at that!)

is there a surefire way to overcome this crookedness? its not good for me, itsnot good for the pony ...

can't afford lessons at the moment but could probably get a friend to shout at me a couple of times!

Julia
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[Mehitabel]

are you crooked on the ground too? i am, and i have to sort that out before it is any use whatsoever people shouting at me on horseback. i see a chiropractor semiregularly, and that sorts it out for a while. mine is indirectly caused by one foot being flatter than the other, so one hip drops and then it all gets messy. correcting the foot sets up too many other peoblems as my body is so used to compensating for it, so current strategy is too leave the feet alone, knock the hip about when it is giving me trouble and that sorts it on the horse for the time being.

if you can't stand straight, you won;t be able to sit straight either.

[Yann]

Bowen therapy might well be worth a try for this? I fell off once and made myself wonky and it worked a treat :)

[notpoodle]

ive been seeing a chiro till recently (after my fall off the pony!). i have (like a lot of people) a slightly crooked hip so my legs are not quite the same length (not drastically). am still doing the exercised the chiro told me to do ...

here's a pretty extreme picture of what i am doing which was taken last year. the shame! the shame! i look like im about to lean too far and slide off altogether :o

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/toyracer/gpony2.jpg

and another, slightly less horrific one ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/toyracer/gpony4.jpg

ive tried the 'imagine you're a puppet on a string being pulled up from the middle' approach but am finding it very hard to visualise ...

Julia
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[Zingy]

Alexander technique lessons are very effective (but not cheap to do them on a 1 to 1 basis, which is best). I ride fairly straight (no idea how cos my spine isn't straight!) but am wonky off a horse :o and they did a lot of good for me. I had lessons regularly for about 6-8 months and have since then done some yoga and keep meaning to try pilates (though not properly - got a dvd I can do at home!).

I think you have to learn to be straight off a horse first, then apply it, but it's also very difficult if you've been crooked for so long - straight to you is actually wonky, but properly straight feels too weird to maintain it. Plus you run the risk of trying to achieve straightness through tension, which doesn't work. You really need a third party to help you I think to make sure you make any adjustments effectively.

You could try looking at anywhere local that does adult education - they very often run alexander/ pilates/ yoga courses at evenings or weekends if you could fit that in! Think I paid something like £30 for 6, 2 hour sessions. And there were only 8 of us at most in the class.

[notpoodle]

sounds very useful, but since i can't afford riding lessons, i can't afford any lessons for just me either :( shame though, the place where my chiro is at offers alexander technique also!!

Julia
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[Mehitabel]

ok, from those, concentrate on not collpasing your ribcage to the inside. wen you go round a corner, think 'inside shoulder up and back' and think f pushing your inside shoulder up and away from the inside hipbone. can you see you're concertinaing your ribcage to the inside in those pics, and your inside shoulder has come in and down. this has the effect of weighting angel's inside foreleg, which puts her onto her forehand and makes her motorbike round corners and fall in. to much weight on thr inside means she will put her head to the outside and lead with the inside shoulder.

[Kazzen]

Sorry - not wanting to highjack your thread but I have a really similar issue which manifests itself as causing a "block" through my right hip, caused by my crookedness.....

Currently my RI has me starting my lesson with my right stirrup.....wait for it...5 holes shorter than the left, then we gradually let it down until they are level at the end of the lesson. I was dubious at first as it felt so very strange, but i think I might be starting to see the benefits! Was just wondering if anyone else had heard of this exercise?

[notpoodle]

@ mehitabel: yep, that is precisely what is happening and lo and behold! i AM having trouble stopping her from cutting corners and looking towards the outside! will try up-and-back with the inside shoulder tomorrow. would it help if i try it in an exagerated fashion first so my body gets the hint?

Julia
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[Mehitabel]

yes, it would. are you riding after work at the minute? i'm horrendously busy this week and away next, but the week after that OH is away so i'd be around one evening if you want a hand.

[wonkeywoody]

Re Kazzens comment - this technique is used to 're educate your muscle memory'. It does work.
Also to help straighten out upper body turn head and look to outside of cirles turns etc. (Pippa Funnell does it!)

[notpoodle]

@ mehitabel: yes, after work in the week and randomly at weekends. that'd be great! haven't seen you in aaaages and you were so helpful last time you came to visit :)

Julia
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[Mehitabel]

ok - pm/email me and we'll sort something out! will be lovely to see you and angel again too. also remind me how to get there - i have a vague memory of changing at kings cross, in which case after work would suit me as i am one stop away from there so an easier journey than from home.

[colettybetty]

ok, from those, concentrate on not collpasing your ribcage to the inside. wen you go round a corner, think 'inside shoulder up and back' and think f pushing your inside shoulder up and away from the inside hipbone. can you see you're concertinaing your ribcage to the inside in those pics, and your inside shoulder has come in and down. this has the effect of weighting angel's inside foreleg, which puts her onto her forehand and makes her motorbike round corners and fall in. to much weight on thr inside means she will put her head to the outside and lead with the inside shoulder.

Excellent advice Mehitabel,I had a tendency to do the same thing,by lifting my inside shoulder and rib cage,therefore staying central in the saddle the problem was solved.Easy to remedy,you should see the difference right away.

[notpoodle]

had a go at this today (must have looked like a right prat!!). it felt very strange indeed (which makes me think this bad habit of mine is rather deeply engrained!!) ... tried to keep the ribcage straight but have my inside shoulder up and back at the same time. the result felt strangely robotic but pony appeared to be responding well and we had less motorbiking and corner-cutting.

Julia
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[Skib]

I know Mehitabel is comng to see you. So I hesitated about posting this.

It is so much more constructive to have someone on the ground and the last thing I want to do is contradict what others have said. Plese regard these, both of you, as additional notes. Both are things gained from my own RI (Alexander T, herself).
I have experience as a pretty crooked rider myself.

First thing she says is that most people are crooked and most horses too. Horses learn to tolerate and ignore any unavoidable imbalance in their rider. Including having unqual leg length and strength.

Next both your pics are on the right rein. So we need to ask if it is always the INSIDE shoulder? Or whether it is mostly a left shoulder versus right shoulder thing?

There are different schools of thought on how to line up your shoulders going round a corner - I am taught to imagine a centre point to the circle and sit lined up with that centre point; my shoulders and hips are in line with the radius.

By the time you get to ride the straight side of the school, you need to straighten up again, with your shoulders parallel to the horse's shoulders. Your pics look as if one problem is you might not do that? However some teachers like one always to ride with a slight bend in the school (my own RI for one).

My one sidedness (weak left hip) is constant in both directions. That means it is easier for me to ride on one rein than the other. Is that so with you?

I've got a DVD in which Pippa Funnell talks about being crooked herself. I dont understand the quote given from Pippa F above.

My remedy (thanks to my RI) is to imagine an elastic linking my right shoulder to my left knee and to strech that elastic. That is, I stretch my shoulder away from the opposite knee and that relaxes the knee down as well as straightening you on the horse. I need to do it especially in transiton to canter.

But being central on the horse can depend on the horse as well. You say you look as if you might slip off. Some horses push riders to one side or the other. My lesson horse has hips that are not straight. She pushes everyone to the right. if the horse pushes you to the right, your head will counterbalance by going to the left (see below)

There is another thing to consider. Our bodies take up positions for a good reason, like to minimise pain. If you sit on the horse with more weight on your left seatbone, that might be because your right hip might be weaker? Is it your left leg whch is the shorter and less active one?

It is useful to think out the root cause of what you are doing by habit. Because your head looks to be to the right but that may not be the whole story.
Most books tell one to stretch one's head to the sky and to sit up straighter and to support the side that is collapsed.. Mary Wanless's image is to have equal stuffing in either side of one's body. Useful yes.

But consider this: if one sits with one's head to one side (as in your pics) there may be a good reason for that. One's head weighs about 12 lbs. So since I ride with more weight on the right seat bone, I may balance myself by holding my head slightly to the left? That is to compensate.
And to tip my head to the left, I lean to the left and collapse my left side.
In other words what looks bad and crooked in the picture, may be done for a very good reason. It actually stabilises you on the horse.
People often say that changing their position, and sitting up straight on a horse makes them feel unsafe; they are not used to it. They are used to riding crooked.
But it may be that the crookedness has a function? It keeps us safely in the saddle. By straightening up we may make ourselves less safe?

We cant cope with the head straightening unless we one can gradually even out the weight on our two seat bones. My left hip hurts if I do that.

Your shorter leg may weigh less than your longer leg, so your body may react to keep you balanced on the horse. You could be doing the same. Holding your head to the inside because otherwise, as you say, you might slip off to the right.

When we look at pics of ourselves or other people comment, it is easy to say, "Straighten your head and sit up tall" - and deal with appearances. What is important is what is going on in our hips and legs - some of us may have a hip that doesnt open out properly, so we cant easily sit evenly on a horse.
or we may need to ride with one stirrup shorter than the other.
or use the muscles in our spine to support us more?

Yes, it is worthwhile trying to correct ourselves - as far as possible - but in the end we have to ride with our imperfections. Make small adjustments. If you start trying very hard and increasing your rigidity on the horse in order to look right, you are likely to be less comfortable and less supple and it will be harder for your pony to carry you. I find it helps to think about balancing one's seat and the weight in one's legs and supporting one's head and trunk softly.
But a picture may not tell the whole story, either about your riding capabilities or the limitations of your body and the way you are managing to ride in spite of them.

[notpoodle]

thanks for that :)

thinking about it, it does tend to happen more on the ... right rein!! weird how you picked up on this! we're ok on the left rein but on the right rein i often find pony wandering off the track and cutting corners :o

and yes, i probably do forget to straighten myself straight again after the corner, which is why pony ambles off the track towards the inside of the school sometimes (because i might inadvertently be telling her to do that with my shifty weight distribution!).#

the elastic idea sounds interesting, i will try to visualise this next time i ride not tonight, its raining. again!) :)

Julia
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[notpoodle]

@ mehitabel: sorry i totally forgot :o having a nightmare time at work at the moment ...

right, i now got trusty flatmate (one of those people who know what they're doing!) to assess the situation. all sorts of nasties cropped up :o

my reins are rarely the same lenght and have a habit of sliding through my fingers. (no excuse! my reins are even colour-coordinated so its VERY obvious when there's like 8 inches difference between the two!!)

i 'lock' the outside rein too much in my pursuit to not let it slip ...

i accidentally do stuff with my hands i shouldnt every time i ask for an upwards transition :o

my old habit of crossing over reins and lifting my hands way too high when i get in a tizzy has made a comeback also :o

she also took my whip away so i could uhm concentrate on the actualy hands more ...

i got so confused that in the end i forgot what outcome i was actually aiming for ... :o

now my arms ache from carrying them differently to what im used to, my back aches from all this straightening up ...

BUT! we worked hard i think and pony was almost in an outline a couple of times :D

Julia
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(should have picture soon!)

[Nazdaq]

oh btw, there is a very good article about this in August's Horse and rider magazine. Its excellent and I am less lobsided becuase of it. :D

[notpoodle]

havent got horse & rider, but a friend gave me last months Your Horse - big article on crookednedd in that one, too :) will have a good read of it later :)

rode today ... disaster! tried to remember everything my friend said i should do, got into a complete tizzy, ended up with a cross pony (she even spooked at a bush! angel NEVER spooks at that bush!) that didn't want to even just go round the track without major upheaval :o

maybe i shall hack next time i ride, to ease things up a bit!!

Julia
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[Skib]

What did I say?

Most of us only have that happen in riding lessons - takes a genius to succumb to teacher pressure on your own.

[LindaAd]

I realised I was riding crooked when I had those reins with leather stops, and I found I always had one rein shorter than the other. I concentrated on keeping the reins the same length, by counting the stops; that forced me to straignten my shoulders and hips. I also found helpful a silly exercise I read about once, where you cross the reins over so the right rein is in the left hand and the vice versa. I'm not sure how it works, but it makes you much more conscious of what you're doing ... I also concentrated on being straight if I was driving, or at the computer, and tried to use my left hand as much as my right for things like carring buckets and poo-picking ...

[notpoodle]

my reins are those coloured ones so in theory it should be easy to keep them the same length :o

the crossing over idea sounds intriguing ... but i suspect i'd probably make a hash of it :o

(in case you are wondering why i am suddenly so eager to improve ... there is err a walk and trot dressage test at the local show in err two weeks time and i would very much like to take pony along. an idiotic idea, i know ....)

Julia
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[notpoodle]

double posted. oops.

[summerguest]

As LindaAd said..think about how you sit and drive or carry your handbag!
Do you always slouch to the right dropping your right shoulder?

I try to imagine the distance between my hip bone and lowest rib and make sure it is equal on both side. if you slouch/ collapse on the right side you will push your hips to the left and maybe push the saddle round to the left.

For awhile you could try doing the opposite to help you more aware of what you are doing so that you know when you are straight....not just on the horse but in everything you do. I taught a post woman to ride once who was incredible lop sides due to carrying the heavy sack of post and I told her to carry it on the opposite side for awhile which is incredibly hard when it feels so natural to do what you've been doing for so long.

Work on it ..cos the improvement in your posture will look after your backbone!

[notpoodle]

yes, my handbag (ok shoulderbag! i dont do small handbags!) is always on the left and i carry stuff with my left hand (even though im technically right-handed!) ... and working on the right rein is harder for me (bizarrely!).

but! im getting better, with useful tips from flatmate and Pico (used to post on here!) :)

Julia
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[notpoodle]

just a quick update ... this one is more recent. still a bit crooked, but better i think :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/toyracer/CNV00013.jpg

Julia
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