Keeping legs back under you in a gp saddle!

[Anvil83]

Help!!! I just can't keep my legs back where they should be, they keep sneeking forwards & aiming towards the knee rolls especially as it's a gp saddle.

When standing, the instructor puts my legs where they should be but it feels so uncomfortable & makes me tense, what do I do? I only ride 1 hr pr wk, how am I ever going to improve?

[Shadowlark]

Without seeing you, it's hard - but my suspicion is you are ridding with your leather too short - try letting them down a hole or 2 and see how you feel :)

[Bay Mare]

It could be that the saddle is pulling you into the chair seat.

It could be that you have your stirrups at the 'wrong' length.

It could be that your hips aren't very flexible at the moment.

It could be a combination.


How is your RI putting your legs into position? Is she doing exercises with you to help you work towards a good seat and position? Have you done any work on the lunge so that you can concentrate on you? What about the rest of your body, do you slump, do you arch your back etc? Would you be happy to post pics so that we could see what you're talking about?

[Anvil83]

Okay I'll try to get some pics from my next lesson this Saturday, will try to post them on here.

I'll try & explain in a bit more depth for now. I've established that my knees should be away from the saddle & lower leg against the horse & around the horse. But just as I try to go into canter & squeeze inside leg on girth, outside leg back of the girth, as I do this my knees creep up & I bounce all over the place coz I'm trying to get this very sluggish horse to go into canter, sorry to the horse but he was extremely sluggish that evening.

Also during canter, it feels smooth, but my feet tap the stirrups as I ride, also I lose my stirrups or my feet go all the way through them even though my heels are down, why can't my legs go long, it's so frustrating!!! I think it's coz I've been told to sit on my tailbone more but as I do this my legs creep up, maybe my hips haven't improved at all, I thought my endless yoga lessons would have helped this by now.

[Bay Mare]

I don't really think of my knees being away from the saddle. It's more a feeling of your leg being draped around the horse.

It does, from your description, sound like you're tensing up on the transition to canter (been there, done that) which is why you're heading towards the 'fatal crouch' position for 'security'. It doesn't help if your horse isn't responsive either! Rather than thinking of putting your outside leg back why not try and think of pushing your inside seatbone forwards, this has the same effect but comes at it from a different angle? It's worth a try and easier than trying to rearrange your hip joint ;)

I suspect that you're gripping up a bit or your stirrups are too long at present if you're 'tapping' in the stirrups. I used to *need* three stirrup lengths ... one for each pace! Thankfully I don't anymore. It might be worth, though, trying them up a hole and see how you feel.

I had a go on a canter simulator at the weekend which was great fun but very educational too :) Rather than rotating the hip bones forwards (which seems more natural) I was taught to think of rotating them backwards with the movement. Sounds bizarre but if you have a gym ball sit on it and try it on there, it actually makes more sense if you can get the feeling.

Good luck :D

[Anvil83]

Thank you, I like that one you said about rotating hips backwards rather than forwards, I'll try that next time. I guess I feel that if I stay relaxed when trying to canter that the horse will go back to walk or something, I guess it's psychological. I wish I could have my stirrups longer so that I can drape my legs around the horse but then my lower leg moves lots, so I'm really finding riding a nightmare at the moment. I'd like to book lesson after lesson after lesson, one day after another & just do no stirrup work, what do you think? Then it'd force me to sit properly & to open my hips more, or would it be a waste of money as it's something that takes years & years???

[JamesJackson]

You may also be putting your outside leg exaggeratedly back, leading to the inside leg creeping too far forwards. It is my view that inside leg on the girth, outside leg back is actually an incorrect way to ask for canter, but that's not for this thread!

[Anvil83]

It is my view that inside leg on the girth, outside leg back is actually an incorrect way to ask for canter, but that's not for this thread!

Why is it incorrect? Please share with me, doesn't matter if it doesn't match this thread :)

[coss]

it does sound like you are gripping up. have you done any work without stirrups? i remember my RI rearranging my leg at one point and she informed me that the thigh muscle should be out behind your leg which gives you more contact with the horse and allows your leg to drape better- it does give a more secure position but it feel more INsecure at first. she had all the people on my lesson without stirrups and did the leg adjustments. after riding without stirrups your leg is "lengthened" so that the stirrups make you more secure.
i would shorten your stirrups a hole or two for now so that you are secure in your lower leg. work on deepening your seat with and without stirrups and then you will need the longer stirrup. your leg has to be comfortable at the longer length before the stirrup goes there if that makes sense.
a good way to get the leg to drape is to (in halt with feet out of stirrups) take each leg back individually and turn your toes in then slowly slide your leg forwards to "the" position. this puts the thigh muslce out behind your leg and rearranges where your hips and everything else is for your leg to be there. do with the other leg. sometimes its worth repeating. gradually you will be able to make minor adjustments with stirrups and then muscle memory will allow your leg to stay in place more.

[JamesJackson]

Why is it incorrect? Please share with me, doesn't matter if it doesn't match this thread :)

Well, if you ask for canter with the outside leg behind the girth, that has the tendency to push the hindquarters in, leading to a crooked transition without inner hind engagement (even if you're talking just an inch of lateral movement).

If, instead, you ask with the inside leg on (or just in front of) the girth, then you a) indicate to the inner fore that it has to lead, b) don't push the hindquarters out and c) encourage good balance through the transition by not forcing the rider to lean forwards, indeed it does the opposite - it brings the rider down into the saddle and helps keep the horse straight.

This does require differentiating the aids between trot and canter to the horse though, it's rather subtle. For trot you just take a deeper seat and lower the leg, for canter you take a deeper seat and apply an aid 'wrapping around' the horse. Leg pressure: Trot - down, canter - in.

[Anvil83]

Thank you, I'll try that in my lesson later this week. I'm finding it difficult to wrap my legs around the horse coz the stirrups are in the way, I am forced into a chair position coz my stirrups are so short & coz I keep being asked to sit more on my bottom, maybe I've just got a large bottom & so it always looks like I'm not sitting far back on it enough, :D

But if I lengthen my stirrups my legs are all over the place. I find if the instructor puts my legs where they should be (she does this with my legs out of the stirrups) then I do feel more secure but my legs keep wanting to go just next to the knee rolls especially when I take the stirrups back. She puts my legs way back, almost behind me but the dip in the sides of the saddle where it dips in just before the knee rolls, well my legs keep wanting to go there if you get what I mean. She said it takes years to train your legs to stay back in a general purpose saddle. I feel so deflated, I just want to be able to ride a decent ride at the moment but I'm awful.

[JamesJackson]

Remember it won't work if the horse hasn't been schooled to those aids though...

On your legs - if you're having problems with your leg it probably means your seat isn't balanced and secure. You want to be sitting on your seatbones, when you're getting used to this it feels almost as if you're leaning forwards (but make sure you're actually not!). If you're not, or your slouching slightly, or your back isn't straight, this will rotate the pelvis back and therefore the legs forwards.

Some GP saddles are also just rubbish.

[Sunkist]

I actually have a similar problem like yours!
And I ride once a week also.

How on earth do you put your lower legs under you is what I always wondered and still do. When my riding instructor put me how my position should be I was like "How can you stay like that!? So uncomfortable:eek:" But lesson after lesson i'm trying to get used to it. I know that exercises and stretches help me alot

I'm also reading the book Centered Riding by Sally Swift, it's actually pretty good.