How to change from can't to can?

[No_Angel]

At the moment, my mum is having a few ridden troubles with Ceryn.
At first I thought I had done a shoddy job in backing her, but she is absolutly fine for me, she has the occasional tantrum, but other than that shes a gem.
Its become very clear lately that Ceryn doesnt trust my mum to keep her safe while shes riding, they are fine on the ground, but when the tack is going on, and she sees Shay is out aswell, she starts to wiggle.
The problem has stepped up now from just being snorty and spooky, to Ceryn actually rearing, mum got off and Ceryn pulled away from her and ran home (thank god we wernt on the roads).
The weekend before that I had taken Ceryn out in the trailer to a place she had never been before, she was a star and we led the way having a lovely ride through some woods. A few days after the 'incident' took place, I rode Ceryn and again she was a star, hopped mum up on her, mum tried to take her back to untack, but Ceryn wanted to follow me. It hit home to me then that Ceryn had bonded with me, and not her owner.

Now ive been saying to mum that she needs to gain Ceryns trust, hopefully once Ceryn belives that mum can keep her safe then things will get back to normal, and they can be out cantering up open fields again.
My problem is my mum doesnt believe that she can keep herself safe, so how will Ceryn believe she can keep her safe?
Ive been suggesting a whole load of things to my mum, but her favourite words seem to be 'I Can't'. She say's 'I need a horse that can do this, this, and this' I say 'you've got one', 'yes, but I need a horse that wont react', 'youve got one of those aswell, hes called Murphy.But you dont like Murphy because he doesnt do what you ask him, and follows the horse in front', 'Well I need a horse that listens to me, but does what it wants', 'It will be much easier to change you than try and find one of those', 'But I can't. Maybe I should give up riding. Ive been riding for years, I should be able to do it by now'.

I really need to find something that will keep her intested, and build up her confidence, aswell as strenthening the bond between Ceryn and her.
Has anyone got any ideas?
Ive been looking into Parelli and the like, but its alot of money to dish out if shes not willing to try.

[Bay Mare]

Not got lots of time as I'm at work but one word:


CLICKER

Positive reinforcement works really well on most horses. You can also integrate it with in hand/long reining work and also other forms of 'nh' (I like IH/Max/Michael Peace and Mark Rashid) and, of course, under saddle.

We've had very good results using clicker with the Saff Monster who now is a lot happier and willing to work than she was before.

All the best


xxx

[No_Angel]

thanks bay mare:)

I have a very basic knowledge of clicker (only what I learnt in a short session at uni), and we have tried this with Ceryn, which she responded to really well, but unfortunatly my mum doesnt seem to have any natural timing, so when Ceryn didint respond in the way she should, mum passed back over to me for fear of teaching Ceryn something she shouldnt, which is im honest is something I do worry about.

[LindaAd]

You sound like a wonderful daughter No_Angel – she's a lucky mum.

What helped me to deal with my daughter's stroppy mare (daughter went away to university and I inherited the mare, more or less) was lots of groundwork. Not your actual Parelli, but "good manners", establishing that I was in charge by getting her to move her feet, do what I asked etc., mainly Kelly Marks and Michael Peace sort of stuff. A rope headcollar made a huge difference; I concentrated on pressure - release: asking, waiting for a response, then praise. Titbits at the very start to get her interested in working – she was the sort of mare who would rear if she didn't want to be led across the field, and who would knock you over if she felt like it ... We did some lunging too, and schooling from the ground.

It made a huge difference in the mare's attitude, and it made me feel much braver. I'd ridden her for quite a while and survived many battles. Sadly, I couldn't move on to the next step, which was riding her, because she died :(:(:(

Whose horse is Ceryn? Yours or your mum's? I think if you're worried that she might teach her something wrong, that could make your mum feel more anxious. What do you think she could teach her that would be wrong? I'd say get her to read the Kelly Marks and Michael Peace books, if she likes reading, and then let Ceryn teach her about timing.

[No_Angel]

thank you linda, thats a lovely thing to say:)

Ceryn is my mums horse, but was bought as a project for me, and if she was suitable mum would have her, and if not she would be sold.
But mum fell into the deadly trap of becoming besotted with her:D she adores her, and on the ground they really do have a great bond. Shes changed from a horse that you couldnt get near to catch to standing in an open field with my mum hanging off her neck cuddling her, and Ceryn just falls asleep with her head on mums shoulder. Its very sweet. I have never seen her have a bond like this with a horse (and weve had 7 altogether between us), so i really would like to work through this little glitch, as mum has actually mentioned selling her (but i bet she couldnt do it if push came to shove).
Mum walks her over tarpaulins and through scary balloons, and will lead her out and such, but Ceryns so quiet we havent had to deal with any tantrums until recently, and when a tantrum starts mum just paincs and hands her over to me, shes not very effective in situations which could be stressfull, and stresses herself.
Its almost like watching mum sat on a train track screaming with a train coming towards her, and im screaming get off the track but shes not moving.
Shes never been very confident riding, but after Ceryn was first backed they were going great guns and everything was fine, then it seemed like Ceryn settled in a bit, got her confidence up (she wouldnt have said boo to a ghost before, now shes a right little madam) and its almost like a teenager saying you cant tell me what to do (shes 14 aswell, so its not a youngster phase).
I am slightly worried that mum might teach Ceryn a bad habit, which will then make Ceryn do something and scare mum, and then mum will blame Ceryn for it which could make the situation worse.

sorry this has turned intoa bit of an essay.

[LindaAd]

It's a bit of a tricky situation, isn't it. As I understand it, the problem is that your mum is not a very confident rider, so she panics if Ceryn does something that she doesn't feel she can cope with ... Is that right?

Could she gain confidence by riding another horse, and having lessons, either on the other horse or on Ceryn? Lessons from another RI, I mean, not from you – I think it's much harder for daughters to give their mums confidence, even if the daughter's a much better rider. (Now half a dozen people will say that's not true. Well, maybe it's not, but that's my experience).


The other thing I can think of is that when I was getting more and more nervous instead of less (on riding school horses!) my daughter suggested I might get braver if I was fitter. So I concentrated on getting fitter (more exercise, less food...) and it worked. I don't know if that would apply to your mum. Maybe she's very fit already.

Then there are all the things people do to gain confidence, like NLP, but someone else will have to tell you about those – I haven't any experience with them.

[stormy's mum]

i echo the clicker training start by clicking and then giving a treat so ceryn associates click with a good thing the treat. what problems is your mum having with her

[Skib]

I sympathise with your Mum. And all older riders with daughters trying to "help" them ride. I wouldnt ride a horse that rears. Particularly if it only reared with me on it and not my daughter.
Linda's advice is excellent and your Mum's situation is not unique. cvb has a mother with a young horse and rather similar situation.
When you are older, falling is no joke. And older people need to be allowed to find their own solutions. If she is a reader, I agree that giving her Kelly Marks' Perfect Manners might be a good idea and also Mark Rashid's third book, I think it is Horses don't lie.

Your mother's life and decisions are her own.
This is particularly true (and essential) when she comes to asserting her wishes over the wishes of her horse.
And made harder if the horse is her darling. I have had a lesson go from dire to perfect just by realising that the mare had no valid excuse for not working.
Indeed mark Rashid's solution is to regard every one of his horses as a working horse. Horses like people have to work for a living. i.e. they are not children.
This IS something you can impress on your Mum.
But I would deal with this via the horse. there is a vast gap in this horse's training. It has been trained to be ridden by only one person, you. It needs to be ridden by lots of different people.
is there any way you can a arrange this? Starting with competent assertive riders and then widening the net? If your mother were one of a whole group of people who were able to ride this horse and get it's attention, she would relax and may be manage it?
Often when there is a problem one needs to avoid telling another adult what to do? Most of what you write about your mother has been negative? Even if she is as "useless" at riding as you seem to suggest, you need to think of things you can do instead.
And to alter the horse, not alter your mother. I don't get the feeling that this horse has yet been fully educated. Nor that the horse has learned that it is a working animal with a job to do.